I think at the NA Open, IPT officials should have intervened and prevented any of it's players from signing a contract with Mark Trainer. He scammed alot of top players who don't read and speak english that well. I know for a fact that alot of them were beyond livid when they realized they had to pay that money back. Apparently their interpreters didn't interpret that part to them. It's kind of sad, because here they had a chance to make all this money, and right when it was about to happen, Mark Trainer pounced on them, and pretty much screwed them for everything. They have to give a massive amount of their winnings to Trainer, in exchange for a small monthly allowance Trainer gives the players (to cover travelling expenses, etc), except the players have to PAY THE ALLOWANCE BACK. How horrible is that? Wow
Why did the IPT Allow Mark Trainer To Make Contracts?
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
cuetechasaurus said:
Furthermore,on a related note,at the time the players were negotiating with Mark Trainer,presumably using the existing tour card entitlement arrangements and the existing future tournament schedules and prize funds as a basis of negotiations,KT was already pressing ahead with negotiating an acquisition of IPT by a potential third party buyer.
It is obvious that in any sale of an entity as vague as a "pool tour" there would always be at least a possibility that a new owner might not necessarily be obliged to (a) honour the existing arrangements between the current owner and the current players entitling them to tour card membership of IPT (b) honour the existing tournament schedule for 2006/7/8 (c) honour the published prize funds.
Under the circumstances it would have been to the advantage of both Mr Trainer and the players to have at least known that such sale intentions/negotiations were going on as the outcome clearly may eventually have a very significant effect on the ability of either or both parties to fulfil the obligations they undertook by signing the contract.
The players havge logistics on their side here.
I presume the IPT is cutting checks directly to the players right?
If a foreign player cashes his checks in his home country and refuses to
pay Trainer, there ain't alot Trainer can do. Plus alot of the Asian players
have citizenship in other Asian countries with access to their banks and the Euro players have bank access to pretty much anywhere in the EU, not hard for these guys to stash their dough.
I presume the IPT is cutting checks directly to the players right?
If a foreign player cashes his checks in his home country and refuses to
pay Trainer, there ain't alot Trainer can do. Plus alot of the Asian players
have citizenship in other Asian countries with access to their banks and the Euro players have bank access to pretty much anywhere in the EU, not hard for these guys to stash their dough.
A few posters mentioned that the players could just not pay Trainer back. I am not a lawyer, but I think this will really depend upon where the player is from. If I read this correctly, http://www.cptech.org/ecom/jurisdiction/whatyoushouldknow.html Trainer can sue the player in US courts and countries that have signed tihs treaty will help enforce the ruling. Of course, this is just some link on the internet and could be out of date or bogus to begin with.
Somebody also mentioned that some of the players did not understand the contract becasue the interpreter did not interprete properly or completely. From what I learned in two semesters of contract law (a very long time ago) I think this is enough to get the contract voided. Simply signing a contract is not an end all be all. For example, if you are drunk and sign a contract the contract is not enforcable. Having a contract misrepresented by an interpreter would not be valid and if done on purpose by Trainer it would be fraud.
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Somebody also mentioned that some of the players did not understand the contract becasue the interpreter did not interprete properly or completely. From what I learned in two semesters of contract law (a very long time ago) I think this is enough to get the contract voided. Simply signing a contract is not an end all be all. For example, if you are drunk and sign a contract the contract is not enforcable. Having a contract misrepresented by an interpreter would not be valid and if done on purpose by Trainer it would be fraud.
Whilst every effort has been made to ensure the high quality and accuracy of this post, mthornto makes no warranty, express or implied concerning the content, the spelling, or grammar of the post, which is provided "as is". Mthornto expressly disclaims all warranties, including but not limited to warranties of fitness for a particular purpose and warranties of merchantability. In no event will mthornto, his affiliates or other suppliers be liable for direct, special, incidental, or consequential damages (including, without limitation, damages for loss of business profits, business interruption, loss of business information or other pecuniary loss) arising directly or indirectly from the use of (or failure to use) or reliance on the post, even if mthornto has been advised of the possibility that such damages may arise. Mthornto does not guarantee the accuracy, content, or timeliness of the post or that it or related posts are year 2000 compliant or free from viruses or other contaminating or destructive properties.
In no event will any liability of mthornto, his affiliates, agents and licensors to you (and/or any third party) arising out of any kind of legal claim (whether in contract, tort, or otherwise) in any way connected with the post or breach of these Terms by mthornto exceed the amount, if any, paid by you to mthornto in respect of the particular post to which the claim relates.
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cuetech,
what kind of arrangments were made and with which players?
what kind of arrangments were made and with which players?
mthornto said:
In another thread related to gambling with the drunks I mentioned that:In many cases drunks lack the ability to make a informed decision on many issues and hence the consent given by a drunk is NOT valid. If one wants to apply this concept in another area of ones life: one should be very carefull in having sex with a women who is drunk.It can be argued that she was raped because there was no informed consent for the sexual act or at the least one may be charged with assult and battery.
CONSENT is valid ONLY if the decision is made by a COMPETENT person who is provided with all the information. In the case of players who can`t understand English they can be considered as INCOMPETENT to sign the contract and hence the contract will be NULL & VOID.
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I don't think the IPT ALLOWED Trainer to do anything. Even though I disagree with Trainer's whole philosopy and is definately using the players, that's what sport agents have a freedom to do. It's called the capitalist system and freedom of choice.
Some players might have needed the front money for expenses to get to the tournaments. I think Trainer saw a chance to cash in on the IPT and devised a plan to make money. I can't begrudge him that. I don't like what he has done but he certainly had a right to do it. Certainly KT recognizes that.
On the other hand, I think KT is trying to combat Trainer. I heard that 07 Card holders will get a $20,000 credit for their expenses. Yes, it will have to be paid back but players won't have to accept Trainer's offer just because they don't have expense money.
Some players might have needed the front money for expenses to get to the tournaments. I think Trainer saw a chance to cash in on the IPT and devised a plan to make money. I can't begrudge him that. I don't like what he has done but he certainly had a right to do it. Certainly KT recognizes that.
On the other hand, I think KT is trying to combat Trainer. I heard that 07 Card holders will get a $20,000 credit for their expenses. Yes, it will have to be paid back but players won't have to accept Trainer's offer just because they don't have expense money.
In a prior thread it was questioned whether KT was "involved with" MT in these arrangements, especially since Mark Trainor is reported to be a close friend of Mike Siegal and that Trainor was given full access to the players during the last tournament (Las Vegas, I believe). KT had to be aware of what was going on, and MT, at the very least, had his blessings.
I also believe that it was stated that Mark Trainor was not even affiliated with any established agency at the time.
Besides, even if KT now offers 2007 card holders a $20K expense advancement, what good does it do all those who already signed a multi-year contract with MT?
I don't know if it really is a Duck, but it certainly looks, quacks and walks like one!
I also believe that it was stated that Mark Trainor was not even affiliated with any established agency at the time.
Besides, even if KT now offers 2007 card holders a $20K expense advancement, what good does it do all those who already signed a multi-year contract with MT?
I don't know if it really is a Duck, but it certainly looks, quacks and walks like one!
smashmouth said:
I believe it is set up so that the checks go automatically to a law group and is dispensed from there, so the stashing wouldn't happen. When the player signs the agreement, that is what he is agreeing to.
With that said, Mark Trainer read this forum and took me aside, wanting to make a point with me. His goal is to have 21 or so players as his 'stable' and then marketing them for huge sponsorship deals with companies like Coca Cola. He said that alone, Efren, Mike S., etc., have no strength...no companies are going to want them by themselves. But taken as a group and some of the best players in the world, then they have strength to be marketed and he is hitting it hard. He has an exclusive agreement with Athlete's First for his billiards players, so maybe he is on the right track.
I asked him that if the money was going to a 3rd party for dispensation, then how are the players protected? He could negotiate for $1M and then tell the player it was only for $100K and pocket the rest. His answer was simple, he would go to jail and he is doing everything aboveboard and is not going to risk going to jail.
Right now, he has taken all the risk to the tune of high 5 figures, with some of the people he has put in qualifiers and have not even made it into the IPT, and with some that have gone out early.
He also re-negotiated for a much lower percentage to the top players after the NAO, so they are all very happy now, he said.
There was another agent at the WO that represents a lot of the English players and has for many years in snooker.
Regarding Angelina, he does not want anyone not in the IPT. Not because he couldn't market them, but because that is not his objective at all. It is to take IPT players only to the major corporations to pitch. That is what he wants to focus on right now.
So I don't believe there is any unholy alliance with KT and the players and MT. I think he is aiming high and if he succeeds, all the players that have signed on will benefit if he does his job.
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NYC cue dude
Banned
the facts are....
the checks go directy to trainer (or third party), not the players.
KT knew about trainer as early as late May.
When he negotiated he was NOT part of athletes first, which I am sure would be construed as a substantial part of his contractual obligations and IS grounds for the annulment of the contract.
These are multi year contracts, and unfortunately, both trainer and players would not NEED to know if the ipt was planning on selling itself to a thid party, for the contracts to be binding.
rg
the checks go directy to trainer (or third party), not the players.
KT knew about trainer as early as late May.
When he negotiated he was NOT part of athletes first, which I am sure would be construed as a substantial part of his contractual obligations and IS grounds for the annulment of the contract.
These are multi year contracts, and unfortunately, both trainer and players would not NEED to know if the ipt was planning on selling itself to a thid party, for the contracts to be binding.
rg
NYC cue dude
Banned
i also dispute lindas remarks that trainer is signing the "top" players.
Max eberle, tang, ginky, teddy garrahan etc, etc, are all fine players, but will NEVER make it to a final six. (many of his other players are on the same level).
Truth is, trainer signed WHOEVER would sign first.
Max eberle, tang, ginky, teddy garrahan etc, etc, are all fine players, but will NEVER make it to a final six. (many of his other players are on the same level).
Truth is, trainer signed WHOEVER would sign first.
NYC cue dude said:
Very true but I didn't suggest otherwise when I mentioned this issue,in fact I wasn't even thinking along the lines of the validity of the contract.
The thrust of what I was trying to say,probably a little unclearly
,was simply that it seems more than a little snide of KT to have known what was going on (ie IPT sale negotiations and Trainer/player negotiations) and yet to have not given the players any clue that whilst they were negotiating with Trainer re (amongst other things) distribution of their future prize money income,he was in IPT sale negotiations.The very existence of the current tour players potential future prize money earnings is significantly influenced by personal promises given by the current IPT owner which are not necessarily going to be honoured by an imminent future owner.Indeed there cannot yet even be a completely confident assumption that a future different owner would even give the 2006 top 100 a tour card,or even that there would be 150 members of the tour after 2006,never mind actually honour or match the published intended number of tournaments and prize money for 2007/8.
Would it be too much to have expected a word from KT to players along the lines of "you might want to hold off for a few weeks on this deal lads as you might have a somewhat different set of likely tour income factors etc to take into consideration very shortly" ?.........He seemed to have no reluctance or hesitation in making an announcement directly to the players regarding possible imminent sale,together with a bit of name dropping and price hype as soon as the UK tournament cancellation subject came to light
I don't know many pro sports folks who don't have an agent. Some are swarmy agents some are not. I don't know Mark Trainer, but I'm sure he won't be the last agent trying to sign these guys up.
Just my thoughts
mrs.g
Just my thoughts
mrs.g
