Why do cue makers hate making joint protectors ??

[asiasdad]

It's like pulling teeth getting some of you to make matching jp's for your cues.

You can increase the price of the cue as these little pieces of eye candy
will justify it, and quite honestly IMO help sell the cue faster.

In the car business we call it front line eyeball, which is why the cars closest
to the highway have the extra bull$hit on them.

Look at these pics as examples of great eyeball.

(teeth were pulled)

Danny

 

[bdcues]

You want a cue? I will be happy to make jp's to go with it... and will admit they are not my favorite thing to make! Maybe cause of the size? How much to charge for them? Integrating designs? All of the above?

 

[Mcues]

Joint protectors

It is a time consuming little chore that doesn't pay well if done right. But like the man said; order a cue and you get what you want even if it's begrudgely.

Mario

 

[cutter]

J/p's

There are little and people think they should be priced as such.
Two years ago at the Super Billiards Expo. I had made some intense Afzalia burl j/p's 2 shaft/1butt. With real ivory inserts and intricate engraving. $99.00. Sold "0" Had one guy come up and asked at that price which cue went with them. Some customers understand and some don't. I also believe that a high end custom ordered cue should probably inclue J/p's.

 

[Bavafongoul]

There are people that will make you custom protectors to coincide with your cue or you can design your own. But asking a cue-maker to spend his time, which is his single largest cost component, knocking out joint protectors really can't be justified unless the cue-maker is also involved with the more profitable, primary business of making a pool cue for you.

As already posted, even then a cue-maker could put his time to better use than producing matching joint protectors unless he had some already made up in basic wood colors.......nothing fancy. But the cue-maker accommodates the client's cue order and joint protectors was a part of it so the cue-maker complies.

I "requested" my cue-maker to make a set of protectors for my custom cue order. I did not specify what to do with the design or shape. I've already presented him with the drawing for the cue design and he thinks he can make my cue a pretty close match, if not dead-on. But when it came to the protectors, I'm leaving that to him. If he sends me black plastic joint protectors, that's fine. If he designs the protectors to match my cue, that's even better and I already told him he can charge me extra regardless of the cost....$50, $100, $200 or nothing, i.e., plastic joint protectors.

In my opinion, the protector set is just a nuisance chore for the cue-maker and I've hired him to make the best cue he can for me, not the best protector set. So if my cue-maker wants to spend the time and effort to design an elegant protector set to match my cue design, which I've made plainly clear I'll pay whatever he wants to charge, I'll be all the more appreciative and flattered by his involvement and commitment to making my cue look the best it could be with a fancy set of matching protectors for my cue design.

If I wind up with plastic protectors, so be it as long as my cue looks sharp, I don't care. I'll just design my own protectors and hire someone to make me a set. That's my take on the protector sets by cue-makers.

p.s. But if I was paying Joel Hercek or Barry Szamboti eight grand for a pool cue, the cue-maker had better include the fancy protectors with my cue or I'm walking. There's a point where you earn those addendums at no charge based upon the face value of the cue order. If the cue-maker doesn't do that, then it's time to find another cue-maker and there are so many others to choose from, except maybe Tibbits. You'd probably reach room temperature before you'd get a new cue from Danny because of his limited cue production and long waiting list.

 

[asiasdad]

There are people that will make you custom protectors to coincide with your cue or you can design your own. But asking a cue-maker to spend his time, which is his single largest cost component, knocking out joint protectors really can't be justified unless the cue-maker is also involved with the more profitable, primary business of making a pool cue for you.

The question was directed at cuemakers already
making either a cue for the customer, or a cue to sell on the market, show, etc.

As already posted, even then a cue-maker could put his time to better use than producing matching joint protectors unless he had some already made up in basic wood colors.......nothing fancy. But the cue-maker accommodates the client's cue order and joint protectors was a part of it so the cue-maker complies.

I "requested" my cue-maker to make a set of protectors for my custom cue order. I did not specify what to do with the design or shape. I've already presented him with the drawing for the cue design and he thinks he can make my cue a pretty close match, if not dead-on. But when it came to the protectors, I'm leaving that to him. If he sends me black plastic joint protectors, that's fine. If he designs the protectors to match my cue, that's even better and I already told him he can charge me extra regardless of the cost....$50, $100, $200 or nothing, i.e., plastic joint protectors.

I agree with the $200 for a decent set, more if ivory/scrim
is involved. I gave Paul Mottey $300.00 for a one off set

In my opinion, the protector set is just a nuisance chore for the cue-maker and I've hired him to make the best cue he can for me, not the best protector set. So if my cue-maker wants to spend the time and effort to design an elegant protector set to match my cue design, which I've made plainly clear I'll pay whatever he wants to charge, I'll be all the more appreciative and flattered by his involvement and commitment to making my cue look the best it could be with a fancy set of matching protectors for my cue design.

exactly

If I wind up with plastic protectors, so be it as long as my cue looks sharp, I don't care. I'll just design my own protectors and hire someone to make me a set. That's my take on the protector sets by cue-makers.

plastic protectors only make the cue look cheap, better
off with none

p.s. But if I was paying Joel Hercek or Barry Szamboti eight grand for a pool cue, the cue-maker had better include the fancy protectors with my cue or I'm walking. There's a point where you earn those addendums at no charge based upon the face value of the cue order. If the cue-maker doesn't do that, then it's time to find another cue-maker and there are so many others to choose from, except maybe Tibbits. You'd probably reach room temperature before you'd get a new cue from Danny because of his limited cue production and long waiting list.

We're close to being on the same page.

My point is that the little pain in the a$$ things do increase the cues ability
to be sold more quickly and at a higher price point, which is why I do not
understand the resistance.

 

[Mcues]

We're close to being on the same page.

My point is that the little pain in the a$$ things do increase the cues ability
to be sold more quickly and at a higher price point, which is why I do not
understand the resistance.

You are starting to sound like a re-seller.

Mario

 

[dunkelcustomcue]

It probably takes me just as much time to make a shaft as it does to make a joint protecter. I usually get $150 for extra shafts multiply that by 3 and I should be getting $450 for a set of joint protecters. Then if it has stitch rings on them it's more time to align the stitch rings with the shaft or butt. All that for something that most of the time will get dinged up sitting in the side pocket of a cue case.
With all that being said I agree that at a certain price point joint protecters should be a no brainier and from what I've seen it does help sell the cue. Bottom line is I still hate spending time on them, but it's a necessary evil if you want to start making higher end cues. Oh and I came up with a solution to keep the joint protecters from getting dinged up.

 

[Dirtbmw20]

Oh and I came up with a solution to keep the joint protecters from getting dinged up.

Cool little j/p holder. What were these originally used for ??

 

[Quesports]

I have an expensive Kikel cue with lots of ivory and asked Dave to make matching joint protectors for it and the two shafts. He finally agreed to do so but asked me to make a small pouch to put them in when I was playing. He told me he didn't want them to get damaged or scratched by other stuff in my case. That is how much value he put on making them and I did what he asked..

 

[Dirtbmw20]

I have an expensive Kikel cue with lots of ivory and asked Dave to make matching joint protectors for it and the two shafts. He finally agreed to do so but asked me to make a small pouch to put them in when I was playing. He told me he didn't want them to get damaged or scratched by other stuff in my case. That is how much value he put on making them and I did what he asked..

I do the same with the ones Tom Coker made for me. I'de love to have a little holder like Dunkel has posted up.

 

[97Buick22]

It probably takes me just as much time to make a shaft as it does to make a joint protecter. I usually get $150 for extra shafts multiply that by 3 and I should be getting $450 for a set of joint protecters. Then if it has stitch rings on them it's more time to align the stitch rings with the shaft or butt. All that for something that most of the time will get dinged up sitting in the side pocket of a cue case.
With all that being said I agree that at a certain price point joint protecters should be a no brainier and from what I've seen it does help sell the cue. Bottom line is I still hate spending time on them, but it's a necessary evil if you want to start making higher end cues. Oh and I came up with a solution to keep the joint protecters from getting dinged up.

Couldn't agree more with Steve. They take lots of time, think about making double the rings for the JP's. You already have to make 3 sets for the joint,and 2 shafts. Now make 3 more for the jp's align them all, and they are small so finishing them takes a bit of a diffrent science. You have to be set-up to make them frequently to make it cost worthy. Thats why we love Alton and Jim Baxter!

 

[cueman]

Here is why most cuemakers do not want to make fancy joint protectors that match the ring or inlay work. Simply put, the customers often expect you to throw them in for free with the cue. They know they will have to pay a few hundred to get them made by one of the protector specialists, but they normally want the protectors thrown in as a bonus.

My compromise on this issue was to fancy engrave our H logo interlocking around a set of joint protectors and give them away with every cue over $500. No it is not matching inlays, but it is a lot fancier than most joint protectors.

 

[Mikey Town]

It probably takes me just as much time to make a shaft as it does to make a joint protecter. I usually get $150 for extra shafts multiply that by 3 and I should be getting $450 for a set of joint protecters. Then if it has stitch rings on them it's more time to align the stitch rings with the shaft or butt. All that for something that most of the time will get dinged up sitting in the side pocket of a cue case.
With all that being said I agree that at a certain price point joint protecters should be a no brainier and from what I've seen it does help sell the cue. Bottom line is I still hate spending time on them, but it's a necessary evil if you want to start making higher end cues. Oh and I came up with a solution to keep the joint protecters from getting dinged up.

That looks really cheap... Would you please make me a joint protector protector with ringwork that matches my joint protectors? I'd really like my protectors to be protected in style.

Seriously though... I asked my cue maker how much it would cost for matching JPs for my new cue. He quoted me an extra $100, they have matching ringwork, engraved tops and he was happy to make them.

If I was ordering a custom, and the cue maker didn't want to make matching JPs, I'd go elsewhere... especially because I'm willing to pay more for them.

 

[Guerra Cues]

Any of my cues include at no extra charge jp's. I decided that way, the amount of work that cues take to be done deserve a little extra sugar
Steve's words are so true, they are a lot of work but at the end of day and when you look at your work you should feel proud of yourself
Steve, did you rob a Walgreens to get those plastic containers? Do you mind to share the source?

 

[RayBell]

That looks really cheap... Would you please make me a joint protector protector with ringwork that matches my joint protectors? I'd really like my protectors to be protected in style.

Yes. But then, you would need a nice joint protector protector protector for your nice joint protector protector if your nice joint protector protector for your nice joint protector is too nice. Follow?? Its a vicious cycle...

 

[Mikey Town]

That looks really cheap... Would you please make me a joint protector protector with ringwork that matches my joint protectors? I'd really like my protectors to be protected in style.

Yes. But then, you would need a nice joint protector protector protector for your nice joint protector protector if your nice joint protector protector for your nice joint protector is too nice. Follow?? Its a vicious cycle...

Well played.

 

[97Buick22]

There are little and people think they should be priced as such.
Two years ago at the Super Billiards Expo. I had made some intense Afzalia burl j/p's 2 shaft/1butt. With real ivory inserts and intricate engraving. $99.00. Sold "0" Had one guy come up and asked at that price which cue went with them. Some customers understand and some don't. I also believe that a high end custom ordered cue should probably inclue J/p's.

Completely agree Steve. There are cues that get custom JP's at a certain price level. All my cues get at least Black Delrin Jp's. If the client wants matching JP's the cuemaker could charge accordingly, or refer to Alton or Jim B. This is not about pride in your work, it's about time and money. Your cues should display your skill an quality by the way they look, feel and perform. Clients with this knowledge have no problem with it.

 

[Guerra Cues]

Completely agree Steve. There are cues that get custom JP's at a certain price level. All my cues get at least Black Delrin Jp's. If the client wants matching JP's the cuemaker could charge accordingly, or refer to Alton or Jim B. This is not about pride in your work, it's about time and money. Your cues should display your skill an quality by the way they look, feel and perform. Clients with this knowledge have no problem with it.

Jon,

I don't need to make cues to pay my bills, so, I completely understand that time is money.
Are you going to be in Chicago?

 

[dunkelcustomcue]

The containers are under the name of kointubes and are for quarters. You can pick them up on eBay for around $30 with shipping included. I had a small label made for the top and also picked up some urethane garden hose washers to cushion the bottom. Oh and yes it is a protecter for your protecters!:smile: