Why do I hate league pool so much?

Great subject, Jay, and looked at in the right way. A lot of very good posts and valid comments as to the drawbacks of league pool while presenting what could be improved to add to the experience.

I used to be frustrated by having to stand there and watch people mail in a win to their opponent to keep their handicap where they wished it to be, by having to watch otherwise nice people as they nitpicked to gain a competitive advantage all the while knowing that at the end of the evening they would probably throw off a low level player on me etc.

However I had an opportunity to have Erik Horleifson join my team (briefly) and after he tried the league experience a few times he came to me and in a polite and respectful manner said he couldn’t continue as the league was “too social” for him. During this brief association I asked him if he got nervous playing in the high pressure pro events where he routinely competed with the best professionals. He replied that he usually did not and that he always enjoyed his turn at the table as he viewed it as an opportunity to show what he could do.

This, in part, helped to change my approach/thought process and got rid of any frustration that I had with the negatives of league play. I now approach it with no frustration at the social aspects/manipulations, no pressures from the playing aspect and I enjoy the opportunity to show what I can do at the table regardless of the skill level/challenge of my opponent.
 
JoeyA said:
You should entertain yourself by allowing your opponent to think that they have a chance and then beat them at the end of the game/match.

They would be telling stories about how they almost beat "JAY HELFERT" and you would be the only one who knew differently. They could run around chirping for months, feeling good about their game and you might get some satisfaction for being the puppet master.

It may be more of a challenge than you think; to keep them close, keep them in the dark and you still win.
JoeyA
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I wish I knew how to do that Joey, but on a bar table you better get out at your first opportunity or you may not get another chance. Like I said, the thought of losing to one of these guys and hearing them chirp bothers me. That's my motivation. :D
 
Ken_4fun said:
I used to think like that....But, as pool is in decline and leagues bring people into our world who would never play pool if it wasn't for bar leagues.

It isn't a choice between leagues and "normal poolroom" 4 1/2 X 9.

The choice for these folks is pool leagues or bowling leagues or neither.

Be happy they keep many poolrooms open, just from that incremental business.

Hang in there Jay, you are a great ambassador for our sport, and for that I truly thank you.

Ken
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OK Ken, if I put a team together this year, you're in?
Or are you going for a doctorate or something now? :)

Seriously, instead of trying to win the whole shebang and stay pissed off all year, just decided to play for 3rd place and go to Vegas anyway.

We just need an anchor player with a Szamboti for a team cue.
 
The higher level league tournaments are what keep me playing. Definitely the weekly league play sucks ass. No way around it though, if you want to compete at cities, regionals and nationals you have to be somewhat involved in the weekly league. This is all for APA of course, ive never played BCA and I only had less than a year of TAP and never went to Nationals. APA does run a great national level event both for singles and team. If you like pool, I cannot see how you could not like the APA National events. They are really the nuts.
 
Playing in league can be fun if you find the right league format. I am not sure about the rest of you guys but what I dislike most is sitting around and watching others shoot. I play in a league format that is a 2 man team, we play each opponent on other team 1 round with them breaking, another round with us breaking, then 2 partners games, each team breaks, and 2 scotch doubles games, each team breaks. I never cared for partner games too much but this is pretty good cause you are changing it up all nite. Sometimes you are done with all of your games in as little as an hour and a half, no spending 3 1/2 hours at league to shoot 4 games on your 4 man team (I always stay until all games are over regardless of when I shoot) We dont really have any sandbaggers cause its a BCALP league, if there were sandbaggers I might take a different stand on league play. The other thing I would like is a singles league, but I think you probably need a pool room to do that and there is not one nearby.
 
Been there done that

jay helfert said:
I joined a team for the first time in over ten years, ostensibly as a sub, but now they want me to play every week. UGH! I hate hanging out in a bar for 2-3 hours. I'd rather be home in the comfort of my den watching TV.

The actual playing isn't that hard, winning 3-1, 3-0, 3-1 and 5-0 so far. Everyone is very nice to me, doing their best to make me feel special ("Hey, it's Jay Helfert!"). That is, until we play our match. Then they want to beat me so bad, the same guys who were so friendly minutes before, now very intense and hovering over the table like it's life or death.

The one good thing is it makes me not want to lose, if you get that. I'm afraid to let them come back to the table so I almost always try for the run out, kicking at balls and playing combos, break shots or whatever. I'm not interested in any prolonged safety battles. I want to get it over with as quickly as possible, wasting little time on strategy. Kind of the way I used to play bar pool a million years ago, just get up there and shoot. That way no one can say you hustled them.

That's about it, my rant is over. I just don't know why I really don't enjoy this stuff anymore. It seemed like a good idea a couple of months ago when I agreed to play, but now I wish I hadn't. :o
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Yep, I started out as a sub as well after years of not playing pool league pool and I was winning matches until I hit players that knew how to take advantage of the spot they were using that made it almost impossible to play against for someone that knew how to use it against you. It was balls in rotation in 8 ball, yeah id never done it and I just couldn't make myself play that way. I lost interest and quit. Not sure I will ever play team pool again, One hole for me or competition with a friend for a nice several hour session..
 
jay helfert said:
I joined a team for the first time in over ten years, ostensibly as a sub, but now they want me to play every week. UGH! I hate hanging out in a bar for 2-3 hours. I'd rather be home in the comfort of my den watching TV.

The actual playing isn't that hard, winning 3-1, 3-0, 3-1 and 5-0 so far. Everyone is very nice to me, doing their best to make me feel special ("Hey, it's Jay Helfert!"). That is, until we play our match. Then they want to beat me so bad, the same guys who were so friendly minutes before, now very intense and hovering over the table like it's life or death.

The one good thing is it makes me not want to lose, if you get that. I'm afraid to let them come back to the table so I almost always try for the run out, kicking at balls and playing combos, break shots or whatever. I'm not interested in any prolonged safety battles. I want to get it over with as quickly as possible, wasting little time on strategy. Kind of the way I used to play bar pool a million years ago, just get up there and shoot. That way no one can say you hustled them.

That's about it, my rant is over. I just don't know why I really don't enjoy this stuff anymore. It seemed like a good idea a couple of months ago when I agreed to play, but now I wish I hadn't. :o
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Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you Jay. What you've described above sounds like a FABULOUS night out at league.

Your kicking ass, everyone is friendly, they are bearing down to give you their best game even though they know you are the better player, and everyone is nice to you and happy to see you. Man, what a life ;)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you Jay. What you've described above sounds like a FABULOUS night out at league.

Your kicking ass, everyone is friendly, they are bearing down to give you their best game even though they know you are the better player, and everyone is nice to you and happy to see you. Man, what a life ;)
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Maybe you're right RJ. It's all a question of attitude and mine needs an adjustment. Thanks :smile:
 
1. You should be wearing a shirt that says "I'm Jay Helfert, who the hell are you!" Don't wear a shirt that says "Vince' everyone will start calling you Vince. LOL
2. You need to remind yourself why you joined league if it still sucks finish the season and move onto another experience.
3. League is all about finding the right team and the right format. Don't worry about the playing ability of the others help your teammates if they ask and focus on the fun.
4. Anyone who thinks league is about the player making money needs a reality check. Leagues have different goals, but its all about the venue making money and the players having a place to go every week.
5. You are in LA there has to be a new batch of aspiring actresses getting off the bus every week who would love to star in your new movie. LOL
 
jay helfert said:
I joined a team for the first time in over ten years, ostensibly as a sub, but now they want me to play every week. UGH! I hate hanging out in a bar for 2-3 hours. I'd rather be home in the comfort of my den watching TV.

The actual playing isn't that hard, winning 3-1, 3-0, 3-1 and 5-0 so far. Everyone is very nice to me, doing their best to make me feel special ("Hey, it's Jay Helfert!"). That is, until we play our match. Then they want to beat me so bad, the same guys who were so friendly minutes before, now very intense and hovering over the table like it's life or death.

The one good thing is it makes me not want to lose, if you get that. I'm afraid to let them come back to the table so I almost always try for the run out, kicking at balls and playing combos, break shots or whatever. I'm not interested in any prolonged safety battles. I want to get it over with as quickly as possible, wasting little time on strategy. Kind of the way I used to play bar pool a million years ago, just get up there and shoot. That way no one can say you hustled them.

That's about it, my rant is over. I just don't know why I really don't enjoy this stuff anymore. It seemed like a good idea a couple of months ago when I agreed to play, but now I wish I hadn't. :o
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Hey Jay welcome back to the world of league pool. Take comfort in knowing that your the GREAT WHITE in the small pond, and just eatem' up LOL.

As far as sitting in the joint have them put you on call... It works for me, I can usually arrive in 10 - 15mins notice.

Regards,

Black Cat :cool:
 
Black Cat 5791 said:
Hey Jay welcome back to the world of league pool. Take comfort in knowing that your the GREAT WHITE in the small pond, and just eatem' up LOL.

As far as sitting in the joint have them put you on call... It works for me, I can usually arrive in 10 - 15mins notice.

Regards,

Black Cat :cool:
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LOL. Just got asked to play on a league on Wed night. They really wanted me to play. I said sure, if I can shoot first or second, I'll be there every week. If I can't you will need to get someone else. They agreed. Not sure if that qualifies as "prima donna" but i'm by far the oldest guy on the team at 53, and I don't shoot my "best" pool at 11pm. And if I shoot crappy cause I"m tired, than it's not all that fun to me.
 
One thing the VNEA and BCA leagues do for a player is to teach you how to sit, wait, and then be able to play well for one game. It's not like gambling where you shoot often.

That's a good skill to have, imho.


Jeff Livingston
 
League is all about location, league operator, local culture values. WHAT OFTEN TAKES THE FUN OUTTA PLAY IS POLITICS AND PENCIL PUSHIN' LEAGUE OPERATORS with the classic me/me/me pool player mindset.... I think it would be cool when on vacation or just traveling....and if you were on a BCAPL team in at the time....Anywhere in USA....your allowed to play on their BCAPL team, max one night in one state and receive credit for that at your home court. That would be a blast meeting some new people/teammates....with some nice soft/medium/hard action during your travels.

But they probably already do that....:grin-square:
 
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I just finished a session of a VNEA (8 ball on 7' tables) league here in Wichita. It was fun at first but then I ended up being the substitute captain. I never knew if everyone would show up from week to week. Trying to get subs at the last minute was a pain. Prior to that session I played in a VNEA league (8 ball on 9' tables) and it was different - everyone showed up and it was much more fun and competitive. Not sure what I'm going to do now. I just retired at the end of April and plan to travel some with the wife; so perhaps I'll just go back to the weekly tournament route where the only one I need to be sure that shows up is me!
 
chefjeff said:
One thing the VNEA and BCA leagues do for a player is to teach you how to sit, wait, and then be able to play well for one game. It's not like gambling where you shoot often.

That's a good skill to have, imho.


Jeff Livingston
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That's why I really like my ACS league the most.....shoot each guy one game, about once every 20 mins cause we always have two tables. Shoot five games in Less than two hours...
 
I beg to differ with you Jay....

I didn't read all of the posts and I hope I don't repeat what was said already but...

1. Coming from your background your probably more suited to poolroom action and matching up that way, which is fine but it's not for everyone.
2. As I said, it's not for everyone but the casual players that want to look for a night or two out in the middle of a long work week love league play. The competition, the socializing and the camraderie of team competition. Getting out and blowing some steam off away from the wife, kids, work etc. can be a much needed diversion.
3. Leagues keep alot of taverns and pool rooms from going under or at least helping them to make ends meet.
4. League play fuels the billiard industry. You should be thankful there are leagues. Case in point...look at the Super Billiard Expo. TAP is the only league there that has a competition and if it wasn't for TAP you would see alot less vendors there as well as people. League players spend money,not so much with the higher end players, semi pros and pros.
5. So someone asked you to bag a game or a match. It's up to you to say no. The greater majority of players will not throw a match then players that will. They will play all out. Always a few bad apples in the barrel. Saying no to it stops them from asking you again.
6. I am 60 years old now and I played in leagues way back in the mid 80's and then started TAP here in Pa. in 1997 so I been around a bit. I don't care for the late nights either anymore and this might be a issue you have with leagues. Age gets all of us. But I still enjoy a night out and getting a match in and tossing a beer back with some of the players. And I'm sorry but it's way better then sitting at home watching reruns of The Hustlers.

In closing....There are alot more taverns then poolrooms and in those taverns are playing shooting pool every night of the week. These players buy the cues, tables,equipment, DVDs, magazines, etc. that help keep a industry going. You should think about this the next time you rant about league play. It might not be for you but hey, you might like vanilla ice cream and I like chocolate. Different flavors for everyone.
 
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flyrv9 said:
I just finished a session of a VNEA (8 ball on 7' tables) league here in Wichita. It was fun at first but then I ended up being the substitute captain. I never knew if everyone would show up from week to week. Trying to get subs at the last minute was a pain. Prior to that session I played in a VNEA league (8 ball on 9' tables) and it was different - everyone showed up and it was much more fun and competitive. Not sure what I'm going to do now. I just retired at the end of April and plan to travel some with the wife; so perhaps I'll just go back to the weekly tournament route where the only one I need to be sure that shows up is me!
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You know what sucks more? Go to one of those weekly tournaments and not enough show up to play it. Sometimes you can get a little gaming going with the ones that did show, but most just go home.
 
Teacherman said:
Get 5 Billiard Rooms in each of the 50 states (250 rooms), with 20 in-house teams each, to join in a Billiard Room Only league and we will create a National System that includes a Pro Tour with 10-12 $50,000 added stops per year, a Semi-Pro tour for the working man, a National Junior Program, and the largest League payouts ever seen..... $100,000 for the first place team.

The proof of this possibility already exists. But they are building mansions instead of giving back to the sport.
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I just have a few questions:
  1. I assume you understand the states are very different sizes and populations and would reconsider the 50/state idea ?

    Where does the added prize money come from ?

    Who is building mansions ?
 
Obvious answer to "Why do I hate league pool so much?"

Because it is designed to sell drinks while waiting to play rather than to have everyone playing.

Imagine a bowling league where you wait for your teammates play entire sets before you step up for your turn. It would never happen would it?
 
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