Why do they keep ALL the qualifier moneys?

[stevelomako]

Why do they keep ALL the qualifier money?

I was just wondering;

If the 50 spots to non-tour members cost $1000.00, why do they keep all the money instead of paying the rest back like they do in Poker qualifiers and satellites?

I can understand trying to be self-funding like poker but??????



Trust me, as a room owner I'd like to see this go off in the worst way and I'd love to start playing again to get in on it but I'll just have to wait and see and hope. I'd be nice to see some of these World Champions make a few dollars so some of us can get paid back from them.



If you do it along the lines of poker you could have 50 pool rooms have a $100 qualifier and the winner gets the paid spot and the rest of the money gets paid out like a regular tournament.

All of us that own a pool room could wind up with 50-100 players instead of the 6-8-10-12 players that they are getting.......and don't worry......a good player will still end up winning. It'd be great for business and more people would get involved to take a shot at it.


But if they NEED to take all the qualifier money I just don't know how long it will last and how often players will get people to put them in.

Like I said, I hope it goes off.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I was just wondering;

If the 50 spots to non-tour members cost $1000.00, why do they keep all the money instead of paying the rest back like they do in Poker qualifiers and satellites?

I can understand trying to be self-funding like poker but??????



Trust me, as a room owner I'd like to see this go off in the worst way and I'd love to start playing again to get in on it but I'll just have to wait and see and hope. I'd be nice to see some of these World Champions make a few dollars so some of us can get paid back from them.



If you do it along the lines of poker you could have 50 pool rooms have a $100 qualifier and the winner gets the paid spot and the rest of the money gets paid out like a regular tournament.

All of us that own a pool room could wind up with 50-100 players instead of the 6-8-10-12 players that they are getting.......and don't worry......a good player will still end up winning. It'd be great for business and more people would get involved to take a shot at it.


But if they NEED to take all the qualifier money I just don't know how long it will last and how often players will get people to put them in.

Like I said, I hope it goes off.

I absolutely agree that clubs organising mini-qualifiers is the way to go, and I even think it would be advantageous if they put a percentage of those entry fees towards payouts, and the rest toward players receiving qualifier entries. If they can do this and turn a profit, all the better, as that would encourage more similar events to be held.

But regarding the IPT paying out from the entry fees generated, I don't think it is fair to assume this as their responsibility. If someone enters the US or Japan Opens, they have to pay a pretty significant entry fee (Not too dissimilar if you consider travel expenses), but those entrants won't be receiving 2k or 5k (World Open) until they win quite a lot of rounds in those events.

The IPT qualifiers could be considered the early rounds of a multi million dollar tourney. So if a player need to win 4 rounds to receive all their expenses returned, then that is a more attractive option than what currently exists in the pool tournament world as I see it.

The IPT puts up more guaranteed money than has ever been seen, and offers better returns for players than has previously been available. We shouldn't expect them to forgo one of their primary current revenues, which still only contributes a fraction of total prize money on offer, just to please the players.

Fact is, 90+% of other tour entrants accept a considerable monetary loss when they attend tournies.

Still, I think reduced entry fees would attract more players and would be beneficial to the players, clubs and spectators. But if mini-qualifiers evolve, this could also provide an adequate solution.

Colin

 

[stevelomako]

Colin,

I'm sorry but I guess you don't understand what I was asking.

Since you are replying and are "In the know"....do they NEED the qualifier monies to pay business expenses and significantly reduce the risk of the billionaire/millionaire owner of the IPT?

Remember, they were hoping for an extemely larger turn-out at each qualifier which would make it.....self-funding. So far, all the money that has been thrown around at the "Tour Card" qualifiers and now the "Tournament" qualifiers has belonged to....the players that have entered.

They weren't even going to have anything like this when they started and said they didn't need it (meaning KT was putting his $$ up and would get it back from OTHER than the players themselves), so what changed?

 

[IPT-hopeful]

Colin,

I'm sorry but I guess you don't understand what I was asking.

Since you are replying and are "In the know"....do they NEED the qualifier monies to pay business expenses and significantly reduce the risk of the billionaire/millionaire owner of the IPT?
Are you suggesting that billionaires/millionaires do not need the make the IPT self-funding and should just fund the tourneys outright just because they are billionaires/millionaires?

Remember, they were hoping for an extemely larger turn-out at each qualifier which would make it.....self-funding. So far, all the money that has been thrown around at the "Tour Card" qualifiers and now the "Tournament" qualifiers has belonged to....the players that have entered.
If you do the sums, it would be obvious that they is no way in the world they are going to make it self-funding from qualifiers alone, so obviously it isn't the key objective.

They weren't even going to have anything like this when they started and said they didn't need it (meaning KT was putting his $$ up and would get it back from OTHER than the players themselves), so what changed?

I don't claim to be in the know, just an observer like you.

The high entry fees and subsequent LOWER turnout at qualifiers seems to be consistent with the IPT objective of only attracting only the players who have a real chance at the tournament to enter.

Since you note the high entry fees are keeping the masses away, then there's no way entry fees will fund the tournament, and if the IPT wants to be profitable, it is only reasonable to deduce they have other plans for generating revenue. Entry fees is only a small part of that. That in itself is the BIGGEST change I see from other tournaments, where entry fees are as high as 50 to 100% of the payouts.

Just look at your own room's cash tournaments and compare the entry fee to payout ratios.

 

[Banker Burt]

Forever Changing

Colin,

I'm sorry but I guess you don't understand what I was asking.

Since you are replying and are "In the know"....do they NEED the qualifier monies to pay business expenses and significantly reduce the risk of the billionaire/millionaire owner of the IPT?

Remember, they were hoping for an extemely larger turn-out at each qualifier which would make it.....self-funding. So far, all the money that has been thrown around at the "Tour Card" qualifiers and now the "Tournament" qualifiers has belonged to....the players that have entered.

They weren't even going to have anything like this when they started and said they didn't need it (meaning KT was putting his $$ up and would get it back from OTHER than the players themselves), so what changed?

Stevelomako,
You are absolutely correct on your take (taking) of the IPT. The bottom line, which Colenso doesn't and probably will never get because he is on the inside, is how the IPT has made promises through press releases that have not happened as stated.

So, when they make announcements you can not trust it to be long term. This is at the cost of "THE SPORT" and is designed to make big return by the IPT. For them to put the early small percetage returns (by stealing from the players) only shows how shrewd the IPT really is.

Don't forget that IPT cardholders are also getting a piece the action from the IPT so it does not surprise me that the "Chosen Ones" (not all) are promoting alternatives to generate more interest about the IPT

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin,

I'm sorry but I guess you don't understand what I was asking.

Since you are replying and are "In the know"....do they NEED the qualifier monies to pay business expenses and significantly reduce the risk of the billionaire/millionaire owner of the IPT?

Remember, they were hoping for an extemely larger turn-out at each qualifier which would make it.....self-funding. So far, all the money that has been thrown around at the "Tour Card" qualifiers and now the "Tournament" qualifiers has belonged to....the players that have entered.

They weren't even going to have anything like this when they started and said they didn't need it (meaning KT was putting his $$ up and would get it back from OTHER than the players themselves), so what changed?

Hi Steve,
My apologies if my response seemed off-track from the point you were making.

I don't know any more than what others here can gather from reading all the developments that are public. So as for what changed, and quite a few things have changed from time to time, I could only speculate as to the reasons.

Banker Burt points out that I have a vested interest. But if I really was concerned about my commissions, which I don't expect to be a great deal anyway, I would be supporting ideas such as lower priced entries and more benefits to the entrants to stimulate higher participation.

But my main concern is the success of the IPT long term. I think they are offering terms that are pretty good for players now, and I hope it can continue to improve.

Colin

 

[mark tadd]

Stevelomako,
You are absolutely correct on your take (taking) of the IPT. The bottom line, which Colenso doesn't and probably will never get because he is on the inside, is how the IPT has made promises through press releases that have not happened as stated.

So, when they make announcements you can not trust it to be long term. This is at the cost of "THE SPORT" and is designed to make big return by the IPT. For them to put the early small percetage returns (by stealing from the players) only shows how shrewd the IPT really is.

Don't forget that IPT cardholders are also getting a piece the action from the IPT so it does not surprise me that the "Chosen Ones" (not all) are promoting alternatives to generate more interest about the IPT

am i missing something here ? from what i see they are taking way the worst of it here. if im wrong please explain in detail one by one so i can see where you guys are coming from ty mark tadd

 

[Banker Burt]

Way the worst of it

am i missing something here ? from what i see they are taking way the worst of it here. if im wrong please explain in detail one by one so i can see where you guys are coming from ty mark tadd

Hi Mark,
We met many years ago on the tournament trail. Glad to here you are still around and playing again.

If I am correct you are referencing the IPT taking the worst of it. All business plans have a times-table, typically 3 years. This gives the company's venture time to invest, recover and then profit. If the company's projected goals are not reached, then they of course pull the plug. If they are on task then things are working fine and a profit is being made.

Speaking for myself, it seems the IPT is putting quite a burden on players as to what we are used to from the sport (historically). If KT has the money to invest in this sport, it seems odd that we the players need to fund a portion of the expense, with the IPT and its players earning from the qualifier revenues.

Good business on IPT's part, and this is all they are really about. I see this much like the room owner who has never taken any real money from their profits to support tournaments. These owners are out to make money and could care less about the sport or the starving players who are the "Show".

The IPT is just using the sport to make money, and their only other real commitment are to those players they chose, and that is a different story all together and has been beaten down pretty good.

My thing is simply that if the IPT is all about the sport, what assurance is is there to us (the sport) from their commitments, especially if their business plan is in a near constant state of change?

 

[JAM]

Hi, Stevelomako! Long time no see!

Here's my take on the current state of affairs as it pertains to the IPT, and though it is true that my counterpart is a member of the IPT and I may get chastized for even posting on this thread by the IPT dissenters, I have tried to follow the happenings with an open mind. Even though I am only a mere railbird, I am also monitoring the IPT happenings very closely, as these 9-day-long events require a very large investment of time and monies.

As anybody who's ever been affilliated with a pool tour knows, the IPT is a very MAJOR undertaking. There is no way that the organizers could know ahead of time what the future would bring. Pool as a sport is most definitely unchartered territory, and those who invest in any tour are doing so with no guarantee of any return. This is the stark reality of pool, especially in the United States.

Yes, there have been some bumps in the road along the way, like getting the 25 qualifiers scheduled before the upcoming N.A. 8-Ball Championship. I think the IPT has done a brilliant job, and IMHO they delivered. The entry fees to the qualifiers are a drop in the bucket if one is to consider all of the monies invested in, for example, the KOTH in Orlando and Vegas. I also think it should be brought to the fore that MANY players in recent times have enjoyed a second-chance "free" entry to the IPT qualifiers, and let's not forget that the IPT members who are on the challenge tables are given a chance to earn up to $4,000 if they defeat their opponents.

I listened intently to Kevin Trudeau at the players meeting in Orlando, and it is my understanding that it is hoped that the licensing agreements to the IPT product as a whole is where a profit may be realized, not from the entry fees paid by the players. The $1,000 entry fee is high because the IPT is looking for serious applicants. I should mention the option of $500 for an entry fee which was instituted recently, maybe to attract serious players who just couldn't come up with the $1,000, but wanted to take a shot at competing on the IPT tournament trail.

I do know that, very recently, IPT members have been contacted by prospective sponsors and others interested in investing in the IPT member's future, to the tune of a monthly salary whether they win or lose. There are some very happy IPT members out there today, believe me. For the first time in my experience on the tournament trail, I am witnessing players being afforded financial security. These "investors" are not guaranteed one dime in return, but they believe in the IPT vision.

The Europe TV deal is one example of how the IPT has blossomed. There will be live TV coverage for some lucky Europeans, and there's also a recent rumor -- and I emphasize the word "rumor" -- that the Asian pool industry members are also going to invest in the IPT. It is so ironic that the IPT, an American entity, has not yet enjoyed a popularity as great as it is in other countries around the world.

I guess what I want to say is that I believe the entry fees, even though they are an exhorbitant 1,000 bucks, are a drop in the bucket when you look at the big picture. I think you will agree too after the Vegas event unfolds. Look at the progress to date. Pool is on the map, and I believe that the best is yet to come.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[memikey]

.....My thing is simply that if the IPT is all about the sport, what assurance is is there to us (the sport) from their commitments, especially if their business plan is in a near constant state of change?

There is no "assurance" from IPT to us (the sport).What "assurance" would you have in mind to ask for from IPT? What "assurance" to you think any speculative investor ever gives to a sport?

They are not asking us (the sport) for anything.So far they are just saying here's our vision and plan for 2006/2007/2008,here's our starting point,here's our tour qualifying system and here's our open qualifying spot system......get on board if you want to.

 

[Banker Burt]

To Jam & memikey

There is no "assurance" from IPT to us (the sport).What "assurance" would you have in mind to ask for from IPT? What "assurance" to you think any speculative investor ever gives to a sport?

They are not asking us (the sport) for anything.So far they are just saying here's our vision and plan for 2006/2007/2008,here's our starting point,here's our tour qualifying system and here's our open qualifying spot system......get on board if you want to.

With no direspect to either of you, I am one who sent a solid resume to the IPT before the deadline. Honestly not expecting to be selected, even though I know I can compete at that level, I respectfully responded to the IPT with a thank you for their prompt and professional response; undoubtly knowing thatt I was one of many who were disappointed by not being selected.

I even recieved a personal phone call the next morning from Dino, thanking me for my response and in that conversation he assured me that I and many others had a chance for making the tour from the (original) "Alternates list".

Then 8 spots come available and all these qualifiers were announced. Then more qualifiers for the first two events. Then a 1K to try and make the tour?

Sorry no taker from this guy. Maybe next year but not while the bitterness still looms on my mouth.

 

[stevelomako]

Thanks to everyone for answering.

I guess I have to restate something....I WANT TO SEE THIS GO IN THE WORST WAY, AS A POOL ROOM OWNER AND AS SOMEONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO START PLAYING AGAIN FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS.


(1) When it started KT said he didn't need any money from anyone, that he was putting up ALL the $$ and would get it down the road (investing=the chance for a return on the investment).

I'm worried about that---WHAT CHANGED?

(2) Does anyone really think $1000 is to keep the WEAKER players from entering? If the qualifiers were free, the GOOD/GREAT/BEST players are still going to win, maybe even Cliff! At least Santo finally got one.

(3) Addressing the "FREE ENTRY FEES" and the chance for IPT players to "EARN" money at the qualifiers.

So far, this has been paid for by the players that entered the qualifiers, the same players that KT said would no longer be gouged like they had in the past by other promoters.


I guess I should have continued to keep my mouth shut and waited to see how the first few tournaments turn out but I'd like this to go so bad. I guess I'm just getting very nervous.

I've tried to avoid getting involved in the IPT section on AZ but I just couldn't take it anymore.



HI JEN!!!
Don't worry, I'm pulling for your man, just don't sock away ALL the money, at least give him a little bit of $$$$$$$$ to dabble with. LOL

 

[TheOne]

I'm not picking any sides here but I do want to clarify one thing that seems to be misunderstood. I can't mention how I know but I know that the IPT where expecting 64 players for each of the 25 qualifiers, they weren't "hoping" for this, they where confident of acheiving it.

So they where expecting to bring in as much as $1.6 Million dollars from the qualifiers for the $2 Million Dollar added North American Open.

This is NOT a drop in the ocean or an insignificant amount. OK they haven't quite attracted the numbers they where hoping for and not everyone would have paid the full entry etc but their intention is clear.

Of course everybody already new this or they wouldn't have changed the schedule to hold all the qualifiers and open events first.

IF this is just a short term solution that helps the IPT survive until more sponsors are brought on board then I have no problem with it. However if its the long term model then I think quesions will be asked and I doubt if the iPT will survive. Anouncements like the Euro Tour deal can not be underextimated, hopefully in time the burden on the players that missed out will diminish.

 

[jjinfla]

I just watched the Chicago Rush win their game. Arena football is a heck of a lot more exciting than pool. I too heard through the grapevine that the IPT was expecting a full field of 64 at the qualifiers. Whether that was just wishfull thinking or they were depending on that to bring in money remains to be seen. If there is a cash flow problem then the IPT will end after the July tournament. It all depends on how much money KT wants to keep putting in. Evidently he does want to make money off of pool and not keep losing it. Otherwise, why does he keep running his infomercials.

Of course there are the TV contracts in Europe and for all we know they may be very lucrative for KT and the IPT.

Jake

 

[Krypto]

Maybe it is just me, but I get the impression from these comments and also from the commercials on the IPT broadcast (pitching the chance to play with the big guys) that the IPT was expecting something like the Poker Tournament phenomenon where every Tom Dick and Harry that reads a poker book and plays a little poker is shelling out cash and entering the big tournaments. I hope that this is not the case, as pool is nothing like poker. I often offend poker players by saying this, but I think most people would agree that the "luck" element is a much bigger factor in poker, and as such, common players believe that they have a chance of advancing into the tournament and maybe even winning it. Sometimes they are right in this belief. In pool, as all of you know, the TV watching amateur pool player doesn't have a snowball's chance in hades of beating a top regional player, much less a professional pool player. In other words, the computer poker champ can play with the big name players in poker and stand a chance (a proven point), but this will never be the case in pool. Pool is a sport, poker is a game. There is a huge difference here. I hope that Mike Sigel explained this to Kevin early on. If not, the poker blueprint could still work, but entry fees would have to come way down for average players to buy their lottery ticket. Pool is more like golf, tennis, or even bowling. Hopefully the skill and talent needed to compete at a very high level has not been underestimated.

In closing, I have attended the main event in Orlando, and two of the qualifiers. My impression is that this is a first class operation, and I think it will succeed.

 

[Dr. Dissent]

I'm not picking any sides here but I do want to clarify one thing that seems to be misunderstood. I can't mention how I know but I know that the IPT where expecting 64 players for each of the 25 qualifiers, they weren't "hoping" for this, they where confident of acheiving it.

So they where expecting to bring in as much as $1.6 Million dollars from the qualifiers for the $2 Million Dollar added North American Open.

This is NOT a drop in the ocean or an insignificant amount. OK they haven't quite attracted the numbers they where hoping for and not everyone would have paid the full entry etc but their intention is clear.

Of course everybody already new this or they wouldn't have changed the schedule to hold all the qualifiers and open events first.

IF this is just a short term solution that helps the IPT survive until more sponsors are brought on board then I have no problem with it. However if its the long term model then I think quesions will be asked and I doubt if the iPT will survive. Anouncements like the Euro Tour deal can not be underextimated, hopefully in time the burden on the players that missed out will diminish.

This post definitely supports the one I made about the IPT failing....KT and the IPT should have secured additional sponsorship by now but I think this is not going to happen, at least not with USA sponsors. I doubt this tour will make it to 2008, I guess it will be all gone by mid 2007.

 

[Leil gay]

Just my opinion but the DR. should start the POULTRY diet as soon as possible in the futurehe'll be eating alot of "CROW"

 

[cueball1950]

Think about this for a minute

i have a simple question. What would happen to all of the American Players if KT takes the IPT to Europe and does not keep it in the United States? From what i can see and read there seems to be alot more commercial interest/value over there with live broadcast and all. Will all of the American players travel to Europe 3 or 4 times a year? What a coup that would be for the European market. And where will that leave all the Players that make the tour every year.......mike

 

[Dr. Dissent]

i have a simple question. What would happen to all of the American Players if KT takes the IPT to Europe and does not keep it in the United States? From what i can see and read there seems to be alot more commercial interest/value over there with live broadcast and all. Will all of the American players travel to Europe 3 or 4 times a year? What a coup that would be for the European market. And where will that leave all the Players that make the tour every year.......mike

Cueball1950:

Maybe the best strategy would be to move the tour to Europe. The IPT has not secured sponsorship in the U.S. The European qualifiers had better turn-outs and it seems they are far more interested than the U.S.....but I don't think the US Players would be very happy if this would materialize.

The IPT is being cornered, and they probably don't know what is hitting them....

 

[Dr. Dissent]

Just my opinion but the DR. should start the POULTRY diet as soon as possible in the futurehe'll be eating alot of "CROW"

I'm dissapointed on you Leil. Could you have made a better contribution to this thread?

At the end, I will have to say to all of you, "I told you so."