Why do we use such larger tips than snooker players?

Donny Lutz said:
I believe "deflection" is the result of "flex".
What you say about smaller tips and regulation size balls seems to make sense, but then 3-cushion billiard players play with even larger billiard balls and they also tend to use thinner shafts...
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No they do not, while the tip may be 11.50mm the shaft itself is close to 13.00mm about an two Inches from the ferrule and it only gets larger from there.

I have played 3-Cushion for many years and I have never seen the smaller shafts you are describing.
 
sfleinen said:
So it makes sense that while Ash tends to be more of a stiff/brittle wood than Maple, Maple is a more resilient wood for cue shafts than Ash.

I was blown away at just how hard and difficult to cut Hickory wood was. It actually dulls the blades on chainsaws, and after a few hours of cutting, you have to change or sharpen your chain.

My experience with this wood has inspired the thought of getting a cue -- or even just a shaft -- made from Hickory. Yes, I know it will be very heavy, but I prefer heavy cues anyway (I play with a 21-ounce cue). I just think I'd like the stiff hit, and the extreme hardness of this wood would make it conducive to small tip diameters, which I also prefer.

Anyone have any thoughts on a shaft made from Hickory?
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Ash is not stiffer than hard maple, nor is it more brittle. It does split easier if that is what you mean, but it's pretty resilient stuff. English ash is much tougher, though, and that may be why the Brits like it for cues.

I am getting ready to start building some cues. I have a fair stash of fiddleback figured hickory that I've been air-drying for several years now. I intend to make a few cue butts from the stuff, and I'd really be interested in your opinion of one when it is completed. As you know, hickory is a premier wood for drumsticks. Damn strong stuff.

I noticed sweet (black) birch among the woods on that Janka list. I'm also interested in making some shafts with some of that. It is harder, denser, and usually straighter grained than most of the hard maple I see around, very white and with a clear and pretty figure. I think a cue made of a curly hickory butt with a black birch shaft would be rather striking, and it would be an interesting project for me.
 
ddadams said:
Just curious.

I'm pretty new to pool as far as actually knowing what the hell I'm doing. I've always loved the game but never had the opportunity to learn as I never had a table available until I turned 21.

Now that I actually know what I'm doing (yeah right) and can run a few racks every now and then I'm wondering why cues use such a full thick shaft?

In snooker most of the tips I see pros use are 10mm or so to give them better control as I understand?

I've recently switched to an OB2 at 11.75 and it has really changed my game, I'm doing stuff I only dreamed of doing and have gotten SO much better with just this change.


I almost want to get a shaft made even smaller though.



Is there any specific reason as to why "American pool" players don't use such small tips like snooker players?
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small tips are great for shots with english, because the CB does not squirt as much; however, during a hot pressure match players with small tip tend to apply unintentional english unlike a large tip.

Small tips allow more CB swerve when shots are near rails and low english is required.

Grady Mathews used to play with two cues during a match, i do not see why not play with large tip those straight or semi straight shots with no english, or just high or low english, and the second with small tip for those english shots you are used to.
 
naji said:
...small tip tend to apply unintentional english unlike a large tip.
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This is a common myth. Smaller tips apply exactly the same amount of spin as larger ones.

Small tips allow more CB swerve when shots are near rails and low english is required.
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This is a not-so-common myth. Smaller tips apply exactly the same amount of swerve as larger ones too.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This is a common myth. Smaller tips apply exactly the same amount of spin as larger ones.


This is a not-so-common myth. Smaller tips apply exactly the same amount of swerve as larger ones too.

pj
chgo
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You took my statements out of contents, wit small tip if one's stroke not straight unintentional english is more possible with small tip than large tip

As far as when elevated, with small tip one can dig deep into CB during stroke and could case more swerve

PJ if i give a new player a cue with 9 mm tip, and a cue with 14 mm tip, and asked the player to shoot the CB up table straight at center and have CB come back to tip which cue would be easier to do it with for this new player (no english)??
 
If we have 2 shafts:
13.00 mm and 12 mm (just example, you could choose any size)

and then BOTH shafts have EXACTLY the same SHAPE.

Then you still hit the cueball with the same parts of the tip, hm? Here you only have exactly one difference- the endmass- that s it.

The contact point of your tip at impact with the cueball (if both have exactly same shape!) is EXACTLY THE SAME!
 
manwon said:
No they do not, while the tip may be 11.50mm the shaft itself is close to 13.00mm about an two Inches from the ferrule and it only gets larger from there.

I have played 3-Cushion for many years and I have never seen the smaller shafts you are describing.
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Well- i also used to spend about 15 years in a billiard-hall, where just the big-guns from carom scene had been hanging around.
And the guys who played also the technical disciplines like cadre, *free-game* used to use smaller tips. But the smallest tip i saw was 10.5- but as soon as it came to 3-cushion, they all played between 11.5 and 12 mm
 
I didn't ready everthing here , but you want look at parris cues website and find American pool cues, there's 3 on there....... If always wanted one
 
ddadams said:
\I'd be interested in hearing if anyones seen a normal cue with an ash shaft
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desertshark said:
There's a reason isn't hasn't been done.
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Never Say Never. I've made pool cues with all kinds of shafts and diameters / tapers. Here is a brief video showing two cues with Ash shafts. One is a small shaft (10mm tip) which was also a shorter shaft, specifically designed for our Local Bar Table Pool (2" Balls). The other cue has 3 Shafts, one of which being Ash is a more traditional 13mm "Pool" style shaft. This cue does hit fairly stiff, but I would attribute that more to the fact that the shaft is spliced with purpleheart, and the Butt is also a solid core Purpleheart Splice as well.

The bottom line is, if you want to try something different, you just need to find a cuemaker to make it for you. (Or do what I did, and make them yourself !!). :embarrassed2:

http://tinyurl.com/agfnu7o
 
naji said:
...unintentional english is more possible with small tip than large tip
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No, it's not.

Maybe you're thinking of a rounder tip - which you can have on large or small tips.

...when elevated, with small tip one can dig deep into CB during stroke and could case more swerve
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Whatever "dig deep" means, I'll bet you can't do it any better with a smaller tip than a larger one.

...if i give a new player a cue with 9 mm tip, and a cue with 14 mm tip, and asked the player to shoot the CB up table straight at center and have CB come back to tip which cue would be easier to do it with for this new player (no english)??
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The one with the flatter (not smaller) tip.

pj
chgo
 
I very much prefer a 'flatter' tip as I believe it allows me to be more precise in hitting the amount of off center I want to contact the CB. I also feel that a smaller tip assists in the assessment of the incremental distances from center & miscue limit.

Just my personal $0.02,
 
ddadams said:
Interesting.

Has anyone ever seen someone have a shaft made out of ash for American pool games?

I was going to see about getting an 11.25mm tip shaft made but if it might be counterproductive I don't think I will waste the money.

Contrary to popular belief just from 13mm to 11.75 I must say smaller is better. For me at least.[/QUOTE

Karen Corr used one for a while. I asked her in an email about it and she responded that it gave a very stiff hit. This was quite a few years ago. I don't think she used it very long.
steven
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I don't really think ash is stiffer than maple.
If you taper maple the same way ash snooker cues are done, it seems to
hit just as stiff.

The disadvantage of playing with ash cues....
..ash is open-grained and as it gets older, the soft parts wear more than
the ridges.
..ash flexes differently as you turn it....that's why snooker players hold
their cue the same way every time...if the grain lines (arrows) are on the
side instead of up, you either get more 'push' or more 'masse'.

I feel ash became popular in Britain because good maple doesn't grow there.

Maple is my favorite shaft wood.
..it is smooth-grained.
..if it is round, it has the same flex no matter how you turn it.

NON-ash cues have won at least 23 world snooker titles...
...15 with oak
...8 with maple

If I couldn't play with a maple shaft....
...I would prefer 'pear' or 'cherry' over ash....
..I've hit with both cherry and pear...they play great
 
ddadams said:
Just curious.

I'm pretty new to pool as far as actually knowing what the hell I'm doing. I've always loved the game but never had the opportunity to learn as I never had a table available until I turned 21.

Now that I actually know what I'm doing (yeah right) and can run a few racks every now and then I'm wondering why cues use such a full thick shaft?

In snooker most of the tips I see pros use are 10mm or so to give them better control as I understand?

I've recently switched to an OB2 at 11.75 and it has really changed my game, I'm doing stuff I only dreamed of doing and have gotten SO much better with just this change.


I almost want to get a shaft made even smaller though.



Is there any specific reason as to why "American pool" players don't use such small tips like snooker players?
Click to expand...

I know of a great player who played pool with a snooker cue for a few years. He had a lot of trouble keeping the tip on the cue, particularly when shooting power shots and also had problems with cracked ferrules. He wound up having to install a brass ferrule which helped, but there were still tip problems. Also, the tip would wear down much faster due to striking heavier balls. It's definitely a high maintenance experience using a snooker cue for pool.

Ray Schuler once made me two different types of shafts as an experiment for pool: a shaft of ash and a shaft of Bangkok birch. I found that both shafts felt lighter than maple but hit stiffer. Both had strong grain lines and took some getting used to.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
No, it's not.

Maybe you're thinking of a rounder tip - which you can have on large or small tips.


Whatever "dig deep" means, I'll bet you can't do it any better with a smaller tip than a larger one.


The one with the flatter (not smaller) tip.

pj
chgo
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Thanks PJ, i will put this subject few months on the side, so either one of us show good proof, or maybe meet one day somewhere
 
naji said:
Thanks PJ, i will put this subject few months on the side, so either one of us show good proof, or maybe meet one day somewhere
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That would be a good experiment. I know who I think is right, and it's not the one who thinks all kicks are caused by chalk or all shafts draw the same, or any number of other bizarre nerdinesses.
 
TheThaiger said:
Oak...presumably that's Joe Davis? I had no idea oak was used in cue making.

Maple... 7 Hendry - who else?
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Yes, Joe Davis played with an oaken cue.
Cliff Thorburn won with a Dufferin maple cue in 1980.

I just realized, John Spencer won with a Dufferin maple cue in 1977...
...it was also the first time the title was won with a 2-piece cue.

..so that makes it 9 times for non-ash cues....maybe more?
 
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