why do you recommend custom cues?

[NineBallNut]

it all comes down to this.. a custom cue allows the person to get exactly what they want in the look, balance, shaft, and many other things. Do these things make it hit better than production....? Some yes. Some No. However..... Last time I checked there was a pro named johnny and one named Allison using such production cues and kicking butt. I personally want a custom only because of the ability to have a one of a kind cue.... jmo

 

[zeeder]

I didn't say that schons are the best cues out there. What I said was that if you find a "good" schon - you'll be hard pressed to find something that plays better. If you disagree with this, then you haven't played with a "good" schon before.

I never said the herceks or scruggs hit bad - what I said is that if you find a good players, it won't be outclassed. If you find a good players, it'll hit as good as a good house cue. Don't believe me? fine

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that you can find a great playing cheap cue. Just as I don't think anyone is denying that nearly every cuemaker who has ever lived has made a cue that SOMEONE out there isn't going to like the way it hits.

The bottom line is if all you care about it getting a cue that plays the way you like then by all means search the stores until you find what you like. If you value other things like build quality and aesthetics and you can find what you like in a more expensive production cue then buy that. If you fall into any or all of the following: play with a longer than standard cue, you like sharp v-groove or full-spliced points, sharp inlays, and designing your own one-of-a-kind cue, or you just like a particular maker, then you should find a custom maker whose work you like and buy from them.

 

[Cornerman]

Fred,
You've been around enough to have heard that. There are plenty of players out there who think that a new/different cue is going to help improve their game.

That's a whole lot different than what you said. That's why I questioned it.

This whole thread is based on a bogus premise. If we start with that (That the premise of 'people believe they can buy a better game') then that pretty much ends the discussion. Nobody believes that they can buy a better game.

Does buying a different cue help? Sure, if they know what they're looking for and know what they don't like in their cue. Anyone who does decide to buy a cue and wants to tailor their preferences should be allowed to without getting what sounds like petty jealousy. Every sport out there, the player tailors their equipment. Bowling, darts, tennis, golf.... Pool is absolutely no different. I should be allowed to get whatever preferences I like based on my years of playing without someone claiming that I did so just because I "thought I new cue could improve my game." That's utter BS.

Should I be uncomfortable just for the sake of the very tired saying "it's the shooter not the cue"?

But you will never convince some people that a more expensive cue isn't going to make them play better. Steve

I honestly believe you've actually never heard them say that they can buy a better game. Maybe you believe they think this, but I don't think they've ever said it. It's a common but strange fallacy.

Fred

 

[dirtydog48]

Why a custom cue?

Simple, you can put together all the best parts (length, weight, joint, pin, balance point, etc.) you have experienced over the years into a personal cue. Of course, one needs to play for a few year (20 or more) to know what those parts are.

 

[pooltchr]

Fred,
I absolutely agree that you should have whatever cue you want, and whatever cue feels good to you. At some point in a player's progress, they can become aware of the differences between a $200 production cue and a $1500 custom. Do they become better players because of the cue...or does the fact that they are good players allow them to use that cue to their maximum ability? Is Tiger a better golfer because of the clubs? No, he is the same golfer. He can use different equipment to do different things. (all of them, VERY well!!)

And I have heard lower skilled players say "I could be better if I had a better cue." This is what I disagree with. If you can't shoot a 7 foot straight in stop shot with a Players cue, you won't be able to do it with a Danny Tibbits custom. The majority of players wouldn't even know the difference in the cue. These are the ones who aren't going to get improvement in their game by changing equipment. An accomplished player who can tell the difference will probably be more comfortable with a cue made to his or her specifications. But they don't NEED it. I watched Scott Lewis enter a tournament with a pretty strong field, using a $100 cue he borrowed from a spectator, and win the tournament with it.

Don't get me wrong. I like nice cues, and I can tell the difference. But they still can't make me better. Better equipment might enhance my performance, but ultimately it's my performance that counts...not the equipment I use.

If a custom cue can help you play better, why doesn't EVERY pro have a custom cue? They should all be looking for any edge they can get. Yet many of them are playing every day with production cues.

Steve

 

[enzo]

a good custom made butt will be solidly constructed, well balanced and wont have any air pockets in it. who knows what you'll get with a cue produced on a factory line where cutting material costs and expedited manufacturing means larger profits.

bob frey can't pay archer as much as schon can for obvious reasons.

 

[Cornerman]

Do they become better players because of the cue...or does the fact that they are good players allow them to use that cue to their maximum ability? Is Tiger a better golfer because of the clubs? No, he is the same golfer. He can use different equipment to do different things. (all of them, VERY well!!)

I think this is where I'm saying that the whole argument is bogus. Tiger is the best golfer on the planet, and being the best golfer in the planet, he still gets clubs tailored to his liking. That means that getting custom equipment is important. As it should be in pool. It's not whether a custom cue makes you a better shooter (whick is the falsehood that Mr. McDoggit has opened up in this thread). It's whether or not you can maximize your ability on a consistent basis by getting equipment that fits your needs/games.

And that's why players get custom cues to play with.

If you can't shoot a 7 foot straight in stop shot with a Players cue, you won't be able to do it with a Danny Tibbits custom. The majority of players wouldn't even know the difference in the cue.

I think this is where when you as an instructor blanket out a statement like "it's the shooter not the cue," it is paramount IMO that you put this caveat immediately, or else we get into this type of useless discussion. Once every two or three years, I am at odds with Blackjack (whom I respect on the highest order) because he posts the "It's the arrow, not the Indian" saying.

I think this saying is fine for players who need to improve their overall mechanics. But, when a player has sound mechanics, nobody should disuade them from buying equipment in an effort to tailor their game.

Fred

 

[Egg McDogit]

You're missing the point of the thread. What you're addressing is an offshoot from one of the responses - and actually it seems that some people do believe they can buy a better game.

This isn't about jealousy. I don't have a problem with anyone having a custom cue - although I do think it's funny when guys with $3000 hercek's won't bet more than $20. I didn't start this thread in order to criticize custom cues or the people who own them. I did it because people on this forum are constantly RECOMMENDING people to buy custom cues - telling them things like "custom cue x" will hit better than any production cue. That's irresponsible and misleading.

This whole thread is based on a bogus premise. If we start with that (That the premise of 'people believe they can buy a better game') then that pretty much ends the discussion. Nobody believes that they can buy a better game.

Does buying a different cue help? Sure, if they know what they're looking for and know what they don't like in their cue. Anyone who does decide to buy a cue and wants to tailor their preferences should be allowed to without getting what sounds like petty jealousy.

 

[Cornerman]

I did it because people on this forum are constantly RECOMMENDING people to buy custom cues - telling them things like "custom cue x" will hit better than any production cue. That's irresponsible and misleading.

Can you actually show me where someone did this?

I think you're dealing a bogus argument.

Fred

 

[Koop]

I did it because people on this forum are constantly RECOMMENDING people to buy custom cues - telling them things like "custom cue x" will hit better than any production cue. That's irresponsible and misleading.

I've actually seen quite the opposite.
Many people, including myself, have a custom cue, but on numerous occassions I have seen people say that there are plenty of production cues that shoot just as well.
In fact, the guy you are going back and forth with right now is constantly telling new players to start with a low end Joss.

Just my observations,
Koop

 

[Egg McDogit]

Can you actually show me where someone did this?

I think you're dealing a bogus argument.

Fred

go look around for yourself. if you're interested, that is

 

[Cornerman]

go look around for yourself. if you're interested, that is

Of course I'm interested. I think your shooting phantoms. It's not up to me to find these mystery posts. You brought it up. I don't think people have said what you claim.

If it's true that people actually say what you claim, then I've got no problem telling them that the claim is misleading.

Fred

 

[Egg McDogit]

Of course I'm interested. I think your shooting phantoms. It's not up to me to find these mystery posts. You brought it up. I don't think people have said what you claim.

If it's true that people actually say what you claim, then I've got no problem telling them that the claim is misleading.

Fred

ok here's an example of a thread you actually posted on a while ago:

The Question:
Hey guys;
I'm thinking about getting a Shone cue and I really dont know that much about them.
...
---------------------------------------------
One of the responses:
I have said it over and over... save your money... be patient... and buy a true custom cue from Ebay... there are some great deals to be had there... I have been on the selling and buying end of 4 cues and they were all great deals.... Just be careful who you buy from...
---------------------------------------------
Another Response:
I think Schon cues are a good value, which means they are worth what they charge. Certainly, they are well made. In terms of construction, fit and finish, they are as good or better than any production cue.

That said, I would recommend a Schuler over a Schon. I've owned both and simply prefered the hit and feel of the Schuler to the Schon. I think the Schuler is a better value as well--more cue for less money.

But I would seriously consider the suggestion to buy a used custom cue. If you buy a cue from one of the top names, it is far more likely to increase in value. Moreover, if you hit it, and don't like the way it feels or plays, you can return it.

 

[Cornerman]

ok here's an example of a thread you actually posted on a while ago:

The Question:
Hey guys;
I'm thinking about getting a Shone cue and I really dont know that much about them.
...
---------------------------------------------
One of the responses:
I have said it over and over... save your money... be patient... and buy a true custom cue from Ebay... there are some great deals to be had there... I have been on the selling and buying end of 4 cues and they were all great deals.... Just be careful who you buy from...
---------------------------------------------
Another Response:
I think Schon cues are a good value, which means they are worth what they charge. Certainly, they are well made. In terms of construction, fit and finish, they are as good or better than any production cue.

That said, I would recommend a Schuler over a Schon. I've owned both and simply prefered the hit and feel of the Schuler to the Schon. I think the Schuler is a better value as well--more cue for less money.

But I would seriously consider the suggestion to buy a used custom cue. If you buy a cue from one of the top names, it is far more likely to increase in value. Moreover, if you hit it, and don't like the way it feels or plays, you can return it.

Can you underline where you read anywhere in these quotes where anyone suggested that "telling them things like "custom cue x" will hit better than any production cue. " ? These are your words that you seem to be arguing.

I see words like "I...preferred the hit," "more cue for less money," "increase in value," "if you don't like the way (the custom cue) feels or plays," and "great deal from eBay."

And a Schuler cue and a Schon cue are about the same level of "custom."

I think I know what you're trying to argue against. I just haven't seen you actually nail down your argument. There are a few people (minority) that you might consider "custom snobs." There are as many custom snobs as there are "production is as good as anything" drum beaters. I think you might be the latter. Both custom snobs and production drum beaters might be missing the beauty of the options available.

Fred

 

[pharaoh68]

Yes, I am...I don't think it's silly at all. I think there are other people that'd agree with me on this. What is your idea of a good hitting cue? The one with the most ivory?

Two of the best playing cues I have ever owned are a Judd JT1 (all wood, no points, inlays, etc.) and a Bluegrass plain jane. So no, you half-wit! I'm not saying that a cue has to have tons of ivory in it to be a good playing cue.
I'm saying that many cuemakers do not just build cues for aesthetics. They have tested and developed construction techniques throughout the years to give the hit a specific feel. One that nearly 95% of the pool world would agree is a step above a house cue.
I'm not even sure I can have this conversation with you anymore because some off the things you say are just plain dumb.

 

[pharaoh68]

I think I know what you're trying to argue against. I just haven't seen you actually nail down your argument. There are a few people (minority) that you might consider "custom snobs." There are as many custom snobs as there are "production is as good as anything" drum beaters. I think you might be the latter. Both custom snobs and production drum beaters might be missing the beauty of the options available.

Fred

I think you nailed it Fred. I think he is just out to get custom snobs. Yes, I may own several customs. And I may play with a Mottey. But as far as Mottey cues go, mine is low-end. I play with it because I feel that the hit is perfect in terms of what I like. I feel that it is truly responsive and, a better playing cue than any I have ever picked up. I love the damnthing so much that I stupidly sold it to a friend against my own will and then sulked for about a week. Fortunately for me, he agreed to sell it back to me and I will never part with it again!!!

 

[Egg McDogit]

just to get back to what you were saying originally:

So, long story short, you're saying that a house cue plays better than a Scruggs? This is just getting silly.

you seem to think that a house cue hitting as good or better than a scruggs is "silly". That's a pretty dumb thing to say from someone who knows so much about cues.

I'm saying that many cuemakers do not just build cues for aesthetics. They have tested and developed construction techniques throughout the years to give the hit a specific feel. One that nearly 95% of the pool world would agree is a step above a house cue.
I'm not even sure I can have this conversation with you anymore because some off the things you say are just plain dumb.

lol

 

[Egg McDogit]

the first response was very straightforward. If you don't see the relevance there, then there is really no point in arguing this with you. If you look through the archives you'll see plenty more responses like that.

I've posted on a couple threads recommending scruggs and freys to people looking for custom sneakies, etc. If I wanted to spend $300-400 on a cue, I'd get a scruggs/frey sneaky or a used schon. If you want to consider me a production drumbeater, that's fine.

Can you underline where you read anywhere in these quotes where anyone suggested that "telling them things like "custom cue x"
....
There are a few people (minority) that you might consider "custom snobs." There are as many custom snobs as there are "production is as good as anything" drum beaters. I think you might be the latter. Both custom snobs and production drum beaters might be missing the beauty of the options available.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

the first response was very straightforward. If you don't see the relevance there, then there is really no point in arguing this with you. If you look through the archives you'll see plenty more responses like that. .

I am asking you quite nicely to underline where you see it.

I don't see it. I think you're reading too much into the posts. It seems clear to me that the first response was talking about getting a great custom deal from eBay. Nowhere did the responder say anything about the cue hitting or performing better than any production cue.

And the second response? Are you satisfied that this response has no bearing on your argument?

I don't have to look through the archives. You do, as this is your ballgame. I think you're simply arguing phantoms, as I said. So far, you've done little to show any reason to argue.

Fred

 

[Egg McDogit]

If you think my real intention is just to rag on customs and custom owners, you're wrong. I don't have anything against custom cues or the people that own them. In fact I LIKE a good deal of custom cues. I really like most of the scruggs I've ever hit with. I have many friends that play with customs.

What I don't like is how they're recommended on this forum, like in the example I posted. Someone asks about schon and next thing you know some is telling them "blah blah get a custom".

You should play with whatever you like. If that's a mottey, that's great...and good to hear you got it back. Unfortunately, I broke my favorite cue into a couple pieces and I'll never get it back.

I think you nailed it Fred. I think he is just out to get custom snobs. Yes, I may own several customs. And I may play with a Mottey. But as far as Mottey cues go, mine is low-end. I play with it because I feel that the hit is perfect in terms of what I like. I feel that it is truly responsive and, a better playing cue than any I have ever picked up. I love the damnthing so much that I stupidly sold it to a friend against my own will and then sulked for about a week. Fortunately for me, he agreed to sell it back to me and I will never part with it again!!!