Why does anybody stakehorse?

Color of Money was pure fiction.

Whitewolf - You say you knowledge of "The Road" life came from watching The Color Of Money?
That was pure fiction but there isn't anything wrong with that if your looking for entertainment, not facts.
Think about the premise - A player is good enough to beat all the other top players but no one knows him. DUH!
There is only ONE way to get good - That is to play and learn from other players better than you, pay your dues & develop heart. Paying your dues includes - The Road & all it's ups & downs.
END OF STORY.
Now don't take this personally, but - what I think Blackjack is saying is - "Stay On The Porch"

TY & GL
 
Wally in Cincy said:
http://www.geocities.com/blkjackds12/BOOK_INFO.html

I assume he's referring to "Chasing the Dream". Blackjack, is this book available?

Blackjack does not like to pimp his products (and I admire him for that) so I did it for him :D
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The book is still in editing. It's been done since May of last year, but due to my situation, I have decided to wait on distributing it as I might have to add another chapter or two. I will begin putting excerpts of the book in my newsletter starting in May. I'm not looking to get rich off of any of this stuff. This book (Chasing the Dream) is a look at my life before, during after the road. It will probably be avilable in e-book form for download when it finally comes out, and I'll probably work something out with Mike to see if it can be downloaded from this site (exclusively), with proceeds going to charity.

Just to let you know that I don't dish out the dirt on anybody in this book, no matter who they were in the world of pool. It's not about me celebrating my victories over some of the best players, it is a look at how the life was destructive to me and those around me. I do express my displeasure with the current state of professional pool and elaborate on how Mr. Mackey's business dealings set us back 20 years. I finally elaborate on my connection with Mike Carella surrounding his death, a subject I have stayed away from for many many years out of respect for his memory and his family. I'm sure all will enjoy it. Thank you for your support over the years, and keep shooting straight!
 
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Blackjack said:
The book is still in editing. It's been done since May of last year, but due to my situation, I have decided to wait on distributing it as I might have to add another chapter or two. I will begin putting excerpts of the book in my newsletter starting in May. I'm not looking to get rich off of any of this stuff. This book (Chasing the Dream) is a look at my life before, during after the road. It will probably be avilable in e-book form for download when it finally comes out, and I'll probably work something out with Mike to see if it can be downloaded from this site (exclusively), with proceeds going to charity.

Just to let you know that I don't dish out the dirt on anybody in this book, no matter who they were in the world of pool. It's not about me celebrating my victories over some of the best players, it is a look at how the life was destructive to me and those around me. I do express my displeasure with the current state of professional pool and elaborate on how Mr. Mackey's business dealings set us back 20 years. I finally elaborate on my connection with Mike Carella surrounding his death, a subject I have stayed away from for many many years out of respect for his memory and his family. I'm sure all will enjoy it. Thank you for your support over the years, and keep shooting straight!
Click to expand...

Sounds good!!

Some of these books are currently unavailable. Prior to sending money for these books, drop me an e-mail to check on the availability of the title. Usually if I don't have the book on hand, I do have book excerpts I will send to you for free via e-mail.

Any excerpts from this one?
 
Well, I guess I won't be buying your book EVER now, having considered it at one time, especially while you are living and could use the money.

I don't make money off of my books. At all.


All I did was to ask a simple bystander question, and excuse me, but your picture was rosey - that is why asked you to expound a little.
No, you were being condescending.

You sound like Fran Crimi in that one has to be 'qualified' to ask a question.

Fran has a very good point, in my opinion.

If you saw an attitude, I am certaintly sorry that you woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

Not really. Don't push it off on me, please. Own your attitude.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but so was your attitude. Just stop asking for sympathy and for people to buy your book.

I don't need your sympathy, and frankly I don't need you to buy my book. Really!!!

I appreciate your opinions and posts, but they all end with 'buy my book' to get all of the answers.

No they don't. I believe my website has the largest volume of free instructional material on the internet. It is not set up as a commercial site and after production costs and shipping, I donate all of the proceeds to charities. I coach several professional players, as well as semi pros, league players, mostly for free. Ask around. Your accusation is baseless, and I'm pretty sure everybody that knows me can attest to that.

Get some pride in yourself while you still have time. Regards, WW

Thanks for the tip, but I do just fine.
 
breakup said:
Somebody straighten me out. There is something about pool I have never understood. Why does anybody stakehorse? If somebody is an action junkie I guess that is a reason in itself but from a gambling perspective I just don’t see the percentage even when everything is on the square (dumping/savers aside). If you lose, you lose. If you win you only get 50% – 70% (or whatever your arrangement is) of your bet back. Roulette with ten greens would give better odds if you just bet on black or red. Sooo… why does anybody stakehorse?
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Depends on the situation. Often in a pretty close game an outsider may have a better idea who will win then the players. I have put up money many time for a guy who just would not match up on his own. I know the guy will win, all he has to do is play but some players just can't seem to get up there. If the guy is on short money your participation may be all it takes to pull the game off. You also have to remember that when all is said and done, there are no guarantees, that's why the call it gambling. Your not actually giving up two to one on the money as it may seem. The money comes and goes as an even money bet and when it is over if you win you give the player his cut. It is possible you may be risking much less then the guy you are betting against. If he is a go off player, you may be shooting a few hundred at a few thousand. Let me ask you, if you play a guy and you say, "If I beat you I will give you half your money back," are you giving two to one on the money? No your not, and if the game is a lock what is the difference anyway. It only matters if the odds take place during the betting. Most half way decent players can play most anyone 9-ball with 2 to 1 odds per game. It would take even a champion all day to beat you out of anything if he won at all.
 
Blackjack said:
Stakehorsing is a lot more than just picking up somebody's road tab. My partner made the bets, I put the balls in the subway. I didn't interfere with his part of the business, he didn't interfere with mine. He set up the bets, and made an investment in my talent and abilities. If we won, we spent the night in a motel. If we lost, we swatted mosquitos all night sleeping in the car at a rest area. My partner and I were loyal to each other. These days there are a lot of cowboys that will shoot with anybody's money, and there is no loyalty or commitment involved. It takes a lot of teamwork, and the stakehorse must know the strengths of his player as well as the weaknesses. My partner Dexter would scout players for days before trying to set something up. What he was doing was devising a gameplan that would play to my opponent's weaknesses.

When I went to Texas and rolled Gene Skinner, it wasn't so much about my playing as it was about Dexter's ability to set up the right game with the right player at the right time for the right money. When you work as a team like that, then my job and his become much easier. All I have to do is put the balls in the holes. I didn't have to worry about setting up games, money, attitudes, arguments, or anything else but screwing my cue together and getting the job done. Many players try to do all of this, and I think that's wrong. I would never interfere or say a word while Dexter was making the deal. That would have been like Dexter interrupting me during the matchup and telling me what ball to shoot and how to do it. We respected each other's positions within the partnership. We understood our roles. So why would anybody do it? Because it is a vital ingredient to your success on the road (in my opinion). Is there risk involved? Darn right. There is risk involved in anything when the outcome is in question. This is just my opinion on this subject.
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I knew Gene Skinner, what is the Gene Skinner story?
 
Blackjack

whitewolf said:
Well, I guess I won't be buying your book EVER now, having considered it at one time, especially while you are living and could use the money. All I did was to ask a simple bystander question, and excuse me, but your picture was rosey - that is why asked you to expound a little. You sound like Fran Crimi in that one has to be 'qualified' to ask a question. If you saw an attitude, I am certaintly sorry that you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Sorry if this seems harsh, but so was your attitude. Just stop asking for sympathy and for people to buy your book. I appreciate your opinions and posts, but they all end with 'buy my book' to get all of the answers. Get some pride in yourself while you still have time. Regards, WW
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B;ackjack,

I hope you ignoree this idiot. This narrowminded, condesending redneck loves to talk down to everybody, I think it boosts his little ego!


Brian
 
whitewolf said:
I don't make money off of my books. At all.

[WW] Do you really expect me to believe that?


[WW] You sound like Fran Crimi in that one has to be 'qualified' to ask a question.

Fran has a very good point, in my opinion.

[WW] Up yours. Your perch broke a long time ago, just like Fran's did.
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well i'm going to stick the "sorry if this sounds harsh" tag on here like everyone else.......so........

you're really discrediting yourself as to anyone even remotely considering your opinion valid on this forum........

not to be harsh though......... :D
 
APA7 said:
B;ackjack,

I hope you ignoree this idiot. This narrowminded, condesending redneck loves to talk down to everybody, I think it boosts his little ego!


Brian
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Ah sucks brian, I know the guy, he's a regular joe and a fine player and he's an apa 7 like you. I like him a lot. It's just the forms, every one has an opinion and many differ and then feathers ruffle and then the wrong word is said and bingo, we are off to the races. Then it becomes who gangs up on who and it no longer matters who was right or wrong.
:D
 
Depends on who you're backing

This guy I know, a very good player, set up a game with someone and came over and asked me to put up the money. I was playing with another guy that I didn't know very well but the guy seemed like a genuinely nice guy. The player asking me to back him tells me he's giving the guy he's going to play the 7. I look over and see who he's matching up with and I agree because I like the bet. The guy I'm playing asks me if it's a good bet and I told him I thought it was so he asks me if he can go in halves and I agreed. We give this guy the $$ and we continue to play our game. Every once in a while, I look over to see how our horse is doing and all of a sudden I see the guy he's playing make the 5 and our horse starts racking. Turns out our horse is giving this guy the 5 and the 7. Well of course he loses the set and I'm pissed as Hell. He comes over to us to see if we want to back him for another set and I give him Hell and damn near kicked his ass (I should have). Some of you already know where this is going. The guy goes back to the guy that beat him with the 5/7 and tells him he doesn't have a chance with that spot and offers the 7. The other guy accepts and our former horse pulls out his own money. I probably should have hurt this guy but I just considered it a lesson learned. I will never back someone on the fly like that.

Doing something like Blackjack did where you develop a trusting relationship is entirely different. Sounds like it has lots of painful twists in the road though. I'm looking forward to reading BJ's book. I think I'd much rather experience this vicariously through BJ's words than try that experience personally.




macguy said:
Depends on the situation. Often in a pretty close game an outsider may have a better idea who will win then the players. I have put up money many time for a guy who just would not match up on his own. I know the guy will win, all he has to do is play but some players just can't seem to get up there. If the guy is on short money your participation may be all it takes to pull the game off. You also have to remember that when all is said and done, there are no guarantees, that's why the call it gambling. Your not actually giving up two to one on the money as it may seem. The money comes and goes as an even money bet and when it is over if you win you give the player his cut. It is possible you may be risking much less then the guy you are betting against. If he is a go off player, you may be shooting a few hundred at a few thousand. Let me ask you, if you play a guy and you say, "If I beat you I will give you half your money back," are you giving two to one on the money? No your not, and if the game is a lock what is the difference anyway. It only matters if the odds take place during the betting. Most half way decent players can play most anyone 9-ball with 2 to 1 odds per game. It would take even a champion all day to beat you out of anything if he won at all.
Click to expand...
 
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