Why does pool need big money?

gromulan

gromulan

Reality police
Silver Member
It's a mystery to me is why so many people on this board think that pool players deserve to make a lot of money. It's as though just because there is big money in other sports like golf and tennis there should be big money for every sport. I mean, who cares whether pro pool players are making a lot of money or not? Does the amount they play for increase your enjoyment or what?

Flame away...
 
gromulan said:
I mean, who cares whether pro pool players are making a lot of money or not?

Flame away...
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pro pool players and those who are hoping to attain that level of play so they can get payed for years of dedication
 
This is a good question. I think it boils down to whether or not professional sports players should be able to make a living doing what they do... and if the top players should be able to make a good living!

As enthusiasts of the sport, I think we want to be able to watch and enjoy pool knowing that players can support their family, etc. and will be around and not have to quit because they can't make enough money.

Considering the average Chess Grandmaster makes more than the average (pre-IPT) pool champion. I personally think that pool players should make a little more in their tournaments if Chess players are making more... :p
 
I guess there are different ways to look at it from an economics stand point. Maybe if you looked at the gross sales from golf/tennis/bowling and compared that number to what Pros make in those disciplines, you could then do the same comparison to billiards.

There are plenty of activities, sports, games, that take a life time to master, but you may never make dime one from them. I also think of hobbies, crafts, art, music....all places to express yourself, yet make nothing...

Does the billiard community "owe" the pros anything?....nah...if the pros can come up with a way to make a living doing what they love, go get em'!

Gerry
 
i think pro players should make whatever the market will bear them to make. If pools popular enough, then that means enough people will pay to see it, pay to buy the equipment, etc. Which means the makers of the equipment or people who want to buy advertising want their ads played during pool matches........so that means revenue........and that means it has to be enough to pay the pool players to make them want to appear. Personally as a pool player,,,,,id like to see pool players make more money, because that means more and more people are into the sport of pool......it means more pool rooms opening up for me to play at.......more people coming in that i can play......etc etc etc. Basically anything thats good for pool is going to be good for me as a pool player.
 
the reason

gromulan said:
It's a mystery to me is why so many people on this board think that pool players deserve to make a lot of money. It's as though just because there is big money in other sports like golf and tennis there should be big money for every sport. I mean, who cares whether pro pool players are making a lot of money or not? Does the amount they play for increase your enjoyment or what?

Flame away...
Click to expand...

I'll have to admit your question threw me at first, and I had to think about it before the answer came to me......for somebody like me who learned to like and maybe love the game of pool from an early age, I always admired and wanted to watch somebody who was really good at it.....in those days, I always heard of Mosconi, Lassiter, Crane....and a bit later, Mizerak and Sigel....I didn't get to see them very much, but I read some about them and heard some about them.....now about 40 years later, I still like the game and I still like to watch talented pool players shoot.....especially world-class pro-level players.....so if they make a decent living or better at it, I figure I'll get to see more of the best the game or sport has to offer.....as opposed to some great talented players quitting the game to make a living doing something else, and me never getting to enjoy the beauty of the way the game is supposed to be played.....and that's the reason I would like to see professionals make lots and lots of money......
 
Samiel said:
Considering the average Chess Grandmaster makes more than the average (pre-IPT) pool champion. I personally think that pool players should make a little more in their tournaments if Chess players are making more... :p
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How do you figure? GM Nakamura won $25,000 for the U.S. Open Championship, and he is the very best GM our country has to offer. He is very NOT an average GM, and he is very much NOT a contender for World Champion. He also does not HAVE to win the US Open every year. Furthermore, chess is a dying beast in America, not that many big tourneys. As far as I know, there "might" be perhaps 3 tourneys per year wiith at least 7 rounds and a $10,000-$15,000 payout. Any fewer rounds than this, and it is a tossup to where even our best GM wins it.

The only way an average GM makes more than the average pre-IPT Champion is if he makes his primary income off giving lessons. Now, if we add in the fact that the great majority of GMs have Master's degrees or higher, then we might see the disparity in income.

ANYone with a Master's degree was a favorite to make more than a pool champion. Perhaps this is a statement as to the different relative worth to society.

And lets not forget that being a GM, and being a pool champion are two TOTALLY different things. One, being a pool champion CAN happen without a truly immense physical talent. Two, making Grandmaster takes both the dedication of a champion pool player, as well as an immensely rare intellectual gift.

Did I mention it usually takes about 11-13 years, as well? Most GMs start at 5 or 6 years old, an make GM (nowadays) anywhere from 16-18.

Don't make comparisons if you don't have the facts down.

Russ
 
gromulan said:
It's a mystery to me is why so many people on this board think that pool players deserve to make a lot of money.
Click to expand...

Deserve? As Clint Eastwood once said in Unforgiven, "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it kid."
 
As others have mentioned, it is a chicken and egg question. Sports with big money have either a very strong amateur base or are popular spectator sports, or both. Not many adults play football or drive race cars, but those are popular. Other sports with dedicated amateur followings will support some professionals. Pool has a large amateur base, but not necessarily a dedicated one or a deep one. How many pool players you know would spend $25 to watch 4 hours of great pool? I would. You would. But how many $25 tickets would sell? Maybe that changes some if the IPT takes off and pool gets on television more. But maybe not. How much has the WPBA on ESPN popularized the sport?

I guess I am the no man today in these threads, but I would like it if pool were more popular. I don't have any brilliant ideas about how to make it more popular. IMO the key to having pool be the sport I think people here want it to be is to have a large amateur population comprising people who loike the sport for the sport's sake. People who are willing to devote some time to learning the game through lessons, but in return are taught about the game and learn some subtleties. Ideally people would play the game for no money or very trivial stakes. Gambling will always be around, but the problem with hinging success on gambling is that pool is a flawed gambling game and will never be hugely popular based only on gambling. gambling might spice up the game but cannot carry the game. And I don't mean matches for very small stakes between friends or acquaintances. If people willingly pay to play pool, alone or with people, with or without music or alcohol, professional pool will follow. I don't know if enough ever will. Anybody who tries to get this going has my vote, but unfortunately it will take more than that. It may just be that there are too many competing things for peoples time and attention and recreational dollar. Pool has to compete with both the internet and video games for the sedentary crowd and kayaking and other similar participatory adventure type sports that are becoming more popular.
 
JPB said:
How many pool players you know would spend $25 to watch 4 hours of great pool? I would. You would. But how many $25 tickets would sell?
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What I don't undestand is why pro pool doesn't just go with what is gonna get the ratings. Either let the pros be themselves, gamble it up, or at least pretend to.

I would not pay $25 to see 4 hours of just normal tourney stuff, but I WOULD pay $25 if I knew I was gonna get to see Alex woof at someone, and act the fool while running out.

A young player with personality should look into writing a pilot for a reality show that details some of the more exciting moments of a player's life. I know Kid D has something like this in the works, but I think it is a movie.

There is a market there. We just have to quit trying to fool ourselves into believing we can clean up the game. Both "The Hustler", and "The Color of Money" were about playing pool for money, hustling, being a road warrior, etc.

THAT'S what will interest Americans. Working it from any other angle is an exercise in futility.

Russ
 
I like Pool... I like it a lot. I've played Pool for 50 years. I also played a lot of Golf.

I used to be a Professional Golfer, so I understand that game real well. The Gallery is made up from all walks of life & those folks don't mind spending a couple bucks, to watch a great player accomplish without strain, that which they cannot do, 1 in 10 trys (or more)

The Gallery likes the half-assed fashion show, the rubbing of shoulders with folks around town & from afar. If they could get Arnold Palmer to say "Hi There", they remember that moment the rest of their life. They buy the shoes the Pros wear, they buy the dresses & skirts the Lady Pros wear, they follow their heroes around a hot dusty Golf Course for hours & not complain about the sunstroke or sunburn they got from their worship service. They hang out in the 19th Hole & reminesce about days gone bye.

You probably won't see that in a Pool Room, for one thing the area around the table isn't that large. Two large Screens would help that problem & a overhead camera too. Sell Videos down the road. Maybe at large Tournaments, like the IPT, Derby City & Valley Forge, maybe it would help if the players actually moved to a different table each game, so the entire gallery can watch each of them play.

I'd like to see the Players make a great living & wear nice clothes. Each of the Pros could become Instructors.

I'd like to see some of them talk without expletives, quit smoking, drinking & Drugs. I'd like to see that few become gentleman again.

If that doesn't work, it will be back to the seedy Pool Rooms, Players awaking each day to find another SCORE, so they can pay their rent. In my little town some great players don't come around any more, because there are no PIDGEONS to pluck. Pool in Tulsa has taken a real downturn, because the GAMBLERs can't find a SCORE, so they took off for the Casinos. The folks who do make a SCORE, get out of town with the cash, before the storytellin' starts...
 
Pool needs big money because noone is drawn into pool watching guys play for 10k-20k first prize. Us die hards will watch, but none of the general public cares for such table scraps. Look at all major sports...guys are making hundreds of thousands, millions. There are a lot of us that would like to see a certain amount of mainstream acceptability for pool...for me it's not so much for the validation of the public, but rather because with an increase in popularity, we're likely to see pool on TV more and at more accessible times. Pool is largely shown on ESPN, a lot of times in the middle of the day on a weekday. Who is home for that? No, I don't have a DVR, and even if I did, this is not the point anyway. It's either ESPN in the middle of the day, or the Internet, for pool videos, and neither one helps advance the status of pool.

Big prize money MIGHT also keep more players from gambling. This can only help the image of pool, which has had sort of a seedy, negative image because of its association with gambling, hustling, etc. If you can make a living winning prize money, there's less of a chance of guys becoming degenerate gamblers.

I don't know if I'd say these guys deserve to make so much money. But like others have stated, it's nice to see that these guys can make a living what they're doing, so that they're encouraged to keep playing and thereby entertaining us pool junkies. Look at George Breedlove...the guy was out of pool for a long time because it was too difficult to make a living. The pool world was robbed for a long time of one of its great talents; he only recently returned with the IPT.
 
gromulan said:
It's a mystery to me is why so many people on this board think that pool players deserve to make a lot of money. It's as though just because there is big money in other sports like golf and tennis there should be big money for every sport. I mean, who cares whether pro pool players are making a lot of money or not? Does the amount they play for increase your enjoyment or what?

Flame away...
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Let me ask you this, if you graduated from college or not, and took a job for minimum wage in your field or profession how would you perform. Now if you ran across a headhunter and he said Gromulan would you like to make twice as much as your making now, do you think you might enjoy your work more, and in doing so actually get better at your job because of the rewards? In our capitalistic society here in the US people usually perform better if they are better paid, not always, but those that do generally keep improving, and if its pool then I as a spectator or player get more enjoyment. There ain't much free anymore in this world, and expenses can eat one alive or make you stay home and never go out. I like to go out.
 
Russ Chewning said:
What I don't undestand is why pro pool doesn't just go with what is gonna get the ratings. Either let the pros be themselves, gamble it up, or at least pretend to.

I would not pay $25 to see 4 hours of just normal tourney stuff, but I WOULD pay $25 if I knew I was gonna get to see Alex woof at someone, and act the fool while running out.

A young player with personality should look into writing a pilot for a reality show that details some of the more exciting moments of a player's life. I know Kid D has something like this in the works, but I think it is a movie.

There is a market there. We just have to quit trying to fool ourselves into believing we can clean up the game. Both "The Hustler", and "The Color of Money" were about playing pool for money, hustling, being a road warrior, etc.

THAT'S what will interest Americans. Working it from any other angle is an exercise in futility.

Russ
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Totally agree with everything except the other angle thing being futile. There will always be a group of "status quo" types who will have a knee jerk negative reaction to anything new. I'm not talking about what you are proposing, but just look at the premise of this thread that pool players making more money is not helpful to the game. I think your angle is right on the mark, and I also think that larger purses for tournaments goes hand in hand with your concept and is just the kick in the pants this game needs to compete not only for an American audience, but a worldwide audience. You didn't imply anything against this in your post, but for the life of me, I simply fail to see the downside of professional pool players making more money.
 
Um, so they can feed themselves and more than five of them can feed a family each year.

And so that we can see more high class pool on TV instead of spelling bees. And so that us diehards can get some respect for knowing the pros!

John
 
More money is going to help the industry. If you are a player, teacher, cue salesman, room owner, or anyone else making a living off the game, then higher payouts to the top pros will help the business grow. The only part I'm not sure of is whether bigger payouts will generate a bigger fan base. I hate to compare different sports, because each sport is unique, but let's look at NASCAR. They have a huge fan base. But in the wrap-up show after a race, do they talk about how much money the drivers made? No, they talk about the points they won toward the championship. To the fans, the money is secondary to the competition. Now the drivers have a different perspective...but there are only 43 drivers in a race. There are thousands in the stands, and multiple thousands more watching on tv. Very few fans would be able to tell you what first place in any given race pays out. But I bet every single driver knows!
Steve
 
onepocketchump said:
Um, so they can feed themselves and more than five of them can feed a family each year.

And so that we can see more high class pool on TV instead of spelling bees. And so that us diehards can get some respect for knowing the pros!

John
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Is 'knowing a pro' something that warrants respect? I didn't know that. I know about 200 of them, should people respect me more than someone who knows none? Wierd.

The theory that larger purses would attract more TV hours is valid, but do you really care whether players that you might not know can feed their family each year? Do you care that way about all sports/athletes, or just pool?

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear if you want me to try and set up a match between Efren and Ronnie O'Sullivan. You can PM me or put it on the forum.
 
i've hired secretaries who make more than all but the top10 pro pool players make. anyone hedging their livelyhood on a sport needs to think again. having said that...secretaries HAVE to receive a check every week. :)

poolmouse
 
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there seems to be little excess in the spillage of the current system of the game. its like watching a savvy spender at the store.
 
whatever poolmouse

you know it annoys me whan people talk like its pathetic to play pool for a living .but you know what they arent going to bury us with the money ,you only live once and you need to have some fun and believe me what i do now is more fun than all the jobs ive had in my life.not to mention when im older i can remember all the countries ive seen.also ive been lucky enough on several occasions ,to know what its like to play perfect in the finals ,then just as they give me the winners check a beautiful woman comes up and asks for my autogragh and wants to know if i would come back to her room for a nightcap.i would have to say its been more fun doing that then fighting traffic to work for a boss i hate in hopes that i dont get fired.well anyway think about that the next time you feel like talking how being a poolplayer is so bad lol. john playingpoolisfun schmidt
 
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