Why does timing and rythm matter in the stroke?

[Klopek]

The worst enemy of a pool player is the left side of the brain talking to him during the shot process. Chit chatter, this is what you must get rid of.

This is what I'm battling with now, left brain interference. I've studied so much billiard instructional material over the last few months that there's a thousand voices in my head whenever I encounter a really tough shot.

When I'm playing by myself and just shooting by feel and instinct, I make all the shots I'd normally miss during a match. Even though I realize the connection I still can't shut those voices up. They don't always cause me problems but it's a real battle going on in my head.

Eventually I'll learn to think with my own brain rather than the theories of all the instructors. My feeling is the brain just needs more time to sift through all the new information and convert it into one voice, my own. At least my stroke mechanics and strategy play have improved as a result of all the studying.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I don't think a pool players stroke should be 4/4 or be constantly even. In fact, I would view a perfectly even rythym as mechanical. I think practice strokes should be in reaction to your thoughts.

I agree my mention of 4/4 timing was purely as rythmic example. I believe it is the final stroke which should be rythmic. Nevertheless it does make it easier if it is in rythm with you practice strokes.

Thanks for all the interesting responses. I've been pondering this subject all day. I have been giving a friend of mine formal lessons, and she asked me this question and I couldn't give her an answer that I was sure of.

When a player is struggling one of the places you tend to notice the signs are in the rythm of the stroke. It can completely throw off their game.

You guys are reminding me why I come back to this forum everyday.

 

[arsenius]

What whitewolf said was really good. For more information on this, there is a whole chapter on this in "The Pleasures of Small Motions" if you are interested in more about it.

 

[Scott Lee]

Warm up swings "build" one upon another in 2 ways.
Warm up swings either 'increase in speed' or 'decrease in speed' until its accepted by the brain knowing the next swing you will pull the trigger.

The warm up swings should never be exactly the same each time (pump/pump/samo/samo motion), if you do you'll never develop your proper throwing motion and feel/muscle memory will not form properly.

I have to disagree with this philosophy completely. The warm up cycle (how many swings, speed of swings, etc.) should remain constant, regardless of the shot. The warmup cycle is used, as you described, to set the brain, to move from analytical (warmups), to action (final stroke). However, imo, it is critical to keep the warm up cycle the same, in order to allow the brain to crossover. We never advocate changing speeds in the warm up cycle...only to 'recycle', if you're not mentally or physically ready to pull the trigger. One thing that is vital, again imo, is the pause at the CB, before the final stroke. This allows the brain to catch up with your hands and eyes, and get visual feedback, on whether to move into the final stroke, or recycle your warmups.
Better players stop their cue, at the CB, before deciding to go or not go.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[ez2h8]

This is what I'm battling with now, left brain interference. I've studied so much billiard instructional material over the last few months that there's a thousand voices in my head whenever I encounter a really tough shot.

When I'm playing by myself and just shooting by feel and instinct, I make all the shots I'd normally miss during a match. Even though I realize the connection I still can't shut those voices up. They don't always cause me problems but it's a real battle going on in my head.

Eventually I'll learn to think with my own brain rather than the theories of all the instructors. My feeling is the brain just needs more time to sift through all the new information and convert it into one voice, my own. At least my stroke mechanics and strategy play have improved as a result of all the studying.

I have gone thru this phase as well and know I will for the rest of my life from time to time. When I know I am close to getting in the zone, but can't stop the "voices", I will accept the fact for the time being and play to that level. But I do agree with your posts Klopek. I also agree totally with the following quote mentioned.
"In pool, if you practice and play within a set rhythm, everything else falls into place naturally. Your body and your mind start to work in sync, and it is this steadiness and familiarity that helps us shoot better. i.e. only when the body and mind seem extremely confortable working together can we even begin to venture playing on the right side of the brain."

For 4 years in ATL, I practiced how to get "into the zone" and believe the above is very true. When you find yourself in the zone, figure out what its like, what you are doing, playing, thinking, feeling,the atmosphere, everything and remember it. Then try and duplicate as much as you can when you practice and play. It's one of the hardest things to develop, putting yourself in "the zone" but it can be done and I believe the zone is different for everyone.

ez

 

[Cameron Smith]

This is what I'm battling with now, left brain interference. I've studied so much billiard instructional material over the last few months that there's a thousand voices in my head whenever I encounter a really tough shot.

When I'm playing by myself and just shooting by feel and instinct, I make all the shots I'd normally miss during a match. Even though I realize the connection I still can't shut those voices up. They don't always cause me problems but it's a real battle going on in my head.

Eventually I'll learn to think with my own brain rather than the theories of all the instructors. My feeling is the brain just needs more time to sift through all the new information and convert it into one voice, my own. At least my stroke mechanics and strategy play have improved as a result of all the studying.

From a mental standpoint, you gotta learn to just do it. Go to the pool hall and practice your pre shot routine and all of your fundamentals. Throw 15 balls on the table and pot them again and again, all the while ensuring that you do exactly the same thing every time. Burn it into your head.

Just focus on a steady stance, proper alignment and a straight and rythmic stroke and keep your head down. That should pot you some balls.

 

[lewdo26]

I haven't read the second page of the thread, so I'm sorry if I'm only corroborating... But as Bob Fancher explains in more scientific terms, what happens is that it takes time for motor information to reach the brain (subconsciously) and for your body to receive feedback from it in turn.

That means that stroking a shot is a matter of --- your brain is anticipating correctly what your body will do. The only way the brain can do that is if you don't send it mixed signals. That is, if you keep a steady rhythm.

Rhythm doesn't mean the same amount of time or warm up strokes, but the same general cadence. The rest, the right side of the brain (which guides motor functions) will intuit.

Not to get carried away, but I think the dance is what matters --- the balls are only a conduit. When I keep that mentality in competition, I never let pressure enter the shot because I'm worried about what I do, not the balls.

 

[PrimeTime]

Timing and rhythm of one's stroke......

You guys are grasping this but please let me add the following:

a) Your timing and rhythm should include your pre-shot routine. Have you ever missed the winning ball because you rushed it?
b) By deliberately deciding in advance and visualizing the shot through your pre-shot routine, you've given (I hope) detailed instructions to your brain about what you want to happen!
c) Then, complete your warm-up stroking...stop and pause at the cue ball...this is called the set position
d) And finally, when you are ready to shoot your mind should be focused on only two things...the contact point on the object ball and the smoothness of your stroke...including a deliberately slow, smooth backswing followed by a pause and then the forward stroke

Note: A great way to do "d" is to follow Allison Fisher's method...she follows the backswing to the pause position...then switches her vision the contact point on the object ball

Good Luck!

 

[Island Drive]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive
Warm up swings "build" one upon another in 2 ways.
Warm up swings either 'increase in speed' or 'decrease in speed' until its accepted by the brain knowing the next swing you will pull the trigger.

The warm up swings should never be exactly the same each time (pump/pump/samo/samo motion), if you do you'll never develop your proper throwing motion and feel/muscle memory will not form properly.


I have to disagree with this philosophy completely. The warm up cycle (how many swings, speed of swings, etc.) should remain constant, regardless of the shot. The warmup cycle is used, as you described, to set the brain, to move from analytical (warmups), to action (final stroke). However, imo, it is critical to keep the warm up cycle the same, in order to allow the brain to crossover. We never advocate changing speeds in the warm up cycle...only to 'recycle', if you're not mentally or physically ready to pull the trigger. One thing that is vital, again imo, is the pause at the CB, before the final stroke. This allows the brain to catch up with your hands and eyes, and get visual feedback, on whether to move into the final stroke, or recycle your warmups.
Better players stop their cue, at the CB, before deciding to go or not go.
Scott Lee

Scott, lets talk further, my explanations may not be clear enough as I look back, let me know if this is better. Constant is difficult to digest, how about your warm up swings are a searching for the correct-constant 'speed', once the brain likes it, its found & we accept, transcending to now go ahead and shoot & slow down, then pause-back-stop at top of swing-then throw with follow through. I've seen average players do the samo/samo pump/pump on every shot, seems like the concern is more that the cue is going straight than their concern for the speed of hit. I recommend to keep the rhythm of the warm up same but the warm up swing speeds are proportinate and thus different on each shot, and when you finally decide to hit the cue ball the rhythm transitions, slows down, and creates the action of 'throwing' the cue at the white ball.

 

[VIProfessor]

Without acting as Scott's factotum or surrogate, I must register my agreement with him. IMHO, the required speed on the shot should have nothing to do with the speed of the warmup swings. If you look at a basball pitcher, for example, you see that whether he's throwing a 70 mph breaking ball or a 99 mph heater, the windup and the backswing of the throwing arm are the same. This is not just to disguise the pitch, but has to do with proper mechanics and not rushing the throw. The adjustment for speed is not made with your warmup strokes, but with your visualization and your trained confidence in your ability to execute what you imagine.

 

[Island Drive]

Without acting as Scott's factotum or surrogate, I must register my agreement with him. IMHO, the required speed on the shot should have nothing to do with the speed of the warmup swings. If you look at a basball pitcher, for example, you see that whether he's throwing a 70 mph breaking ball or a 99 mph heater, the windup and the backswing of the throwing arm are the same. This is not just to disguise the pitch, but has to do with proper mechanics and not rushing the throw. The adjustment for speed is not made with your warmup strokes, but with your visualization and your trained confidence in your ability to execute what you imagine.

I don't know if you can compare the two, but I've found my warm up swings for a break shot are way different that a 2 foot draw shot. Same goes for force follow shots, I have a much more active swing/warm up motion.

 

[havoc]

cadence

I haven't read the second page of the thread, so I'm sorry if I'm only corroborating... But as Bob Fancher explains in more scientific terms, what happens is that it takes time for motor information to reach the brain (subconsciously) and for your body to receive feedback from it in turn.

That means that stroking a shot is a matter of --- your brain is anticipating correctly what your body will do. The only way the brain can do that is if you don't send it mixed signals. That is, if you keep a steady rhythm.

Rhythm doesn't mean the same amount of time or warm up strokes, but the same general cadence. The rest, the right side of the brain (which guides motor functions) will intuit.

Not to get carried away, but I think the dance is what matters --- the balls are only a conduit. When I keep that mentality in competition, I never let pressure enter the shot because I'm worried about what I do, not the balls.

i was thinking the same thing.
ppl are confusing rhythm with cadence.

when i was fighting and then training fighters this is one area we worked on.
when hitting the pads i would call out a combo like a 1-2-3.some ppl's cadence would be fast and they would deliver a jab,cross,hook(1,2,3) very quickly allowing little if no space for a counter.others would throw the same combo only their inner cadence would be alot slower.i would tell fighters to talk themselves thru the combo,repeating the combo at a faster pace and throwing punches with the faster cadence.

if you watch karen and allison,karen has a slower cadence than allison.

 

[renard]

I haven't read the second page of the thread, so I'm sorry if I'm only corroborating... But as Bob Fancher explains in more scientific terms, what happens is that it takes time for motor information to reach the brain (subconsciously) and for your body to receive feedback from it in turn.

That means that stroking a shot is a matter of --- your brain is anticipating correctly what your body will do. The only way the brain can do that is if you don't send it mixed signals. That is, if you keep a steady rhythm.

Rhythm doesn't mean the same amount of time or warm up strokes, but the same general cadence. The rest, the right side of the brain (which guides motor functions) will intuit.

Not to get carried away, but I think the dance is what matters --- the balls are only a conduit. When I keep that mentality in competition, I never let pressure enter the shot because I'm worried about what I do, not the balls.

Lewdo hits the nail on the head! Whitewolf post was excellent as well!

Think of a difficult layout in a hill-hill must win situation. The left side of the brain goes over all the blue prints in analyzing the correct play. Even during this time there is a rythmn in what we do. The mental analyzing inputs to the consciousness and the bodily inputs to the consciousness are happening at the same time. Rythmn coordinates both of these inputs in that your conscious and unconscious controls work together.

This is why practice is so important. We develop a wider shot selection that requires less fuss analyzing what to do. The brain makes those shots automatic in that they are unconciously controlled.

Sorry about the tangent, let me continue. As we go thru the pre-shot routine, rythmn coordinates both inputs to work together. It is rythmn that moves what you imagined or predicted on the shot to actual execution of the shot. As your stroking you find a point in your consciousness in which both inputs of the mental and bodily feedback become one. That is when you know to pull the trigger.

An example is when after your warm up strokes have finished and your tip is stopped at the cueball just before the execution of the shot. If your consciousness realizes that your mental and bodily feedback are not indeed as one you start over. "The shot just doesn't feel right." (This goes back to my tangent earlier. If you never practiced the shot before how do you know what its supposed to feel like?)

So rythmn keeps everything in line as one and is the driving force making it all an elegant dance of the stroke. Most pool players do the wrong thing when they are having an off night. They focus on conscious controls. They become too concerning over the success of the shot, forgetting the feel of a well coordinated rythmic stroke...

Let me clarify a misconception here if I may. Most everyone tends to believe rythmn is a physical quality. It is not entirely. Lets use the example of instructors for instance. They teach a slow backstroke. What they are having you practice is the stroke mechanics not rythmn. Once your stroke is fine tuned it becomes second nature; automatic in that you don't have to think about it anymore it just happens.

If you are thinking is my stance correct, is my grip correct, slow backstroke, hand to chest on follow thru, & stop freeze at the end; you are overloading your conscious by trying to control everything at once. That disrupts your rythmn. Again you have conscious and unconscious controls. The less conscious controls the better chance we have at finding and remaining in rythmn.

In other terms, think of the mind as having a certain bandwidth. Too much conscious control overloads that bandwidth and we become indecisive and out of rythmn. Our minds can only process so much information. We simply cannot make the connection that everything is right when we have too much input; some information goes missing or unprocessed.

Dead stroke is unconscious controls playing with minimal interferance of conscious controls. Rythmn is what puts both them together to work as one. No verbalization, no conscious control; the mind is free to perform as it should. Rythmn is the well coordinated order of your mind over the timeline of the shot.

Easier said than done...

 

[renard]

i was thinking the same thing.
ppl are confusing rhythm with cadence.

when i was fighting and then training fighters this is one area we worked on.
when hitting the pads i would call out a combo like a 1-2-3.some ppl's cadence would be fast and they would deliver a jab,cross,hook(1,2,3) very quickly allowing little if no space for a counter.others would throw the same combo only their inner cadence would be alot slower.i would tell fighters to talk themselves thru the combo,repeating the combo at a faster pace and throwing punches with the faster cadence.

if you watch karen and allison,karen has a slower cadence than allison.

Rythmn is broken down into two things: Cadence and Tempo. Without one you have no rythmn. Cadence is the 1-2-3... Tempo is how fast you play out the cadence itself. An example would be a song in music, both songs could have a 1-2-3-4 cadence but a heavy metal song will have a faster tempo than an acoustic slow love song. We all have different tempo's. Even our own inner tempo for that given night might change. That cadence still needs to be there. If your in tune with that cadence you are mostly in rythmn; you just have to realise what your tempo is for that given time. If that tempo out of adjustment it can throw your rythmn a little off center.

 

[renard]

I guess I'm a thread killer?!?

 

[bruin70]

it matters in all sports.