Why does timing and rythm matter in the stroke?

[Cameron Smith]

I'm not disputing that it does play an important part in our game. I am just not sure why.

You can definitely see a consistent rythm among good players in their practice strokes. If we look at this from a musical point of view, Steve Davis (off the the top of my head) strokes three or four quarter notes, and then his final delivery is a whole note. On the other hand Thomas Engert uses quarter notes as his practice strokes and his final stroke is a sixteenth note.

When I was goofing around today I was playing with the timing in my stroke. If I delivered my final stroke out of rythm with my practice strokes, not only would I miss the ball (very long straight in shot), but I would sometimes miss wildly. However if I kept everything in 4/4 timing, for example, then I would pot the ball.

So what is the reasoning behind this? Does anyone know, or is it just an accepted truth?

EDIT: Thomas Engert's final stroke is actually an eighth note. A sixteenth note stroke would be way too fast. I don't know why I didn't catch that earlier, I should know better.

EDIT to the EDIT: Full of grammatical errors.

EDIT to the EDIT of the EDIT: Spelled grammatical wrong. I'm going to bed.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I'm not disputing that it does play an important part in our game. I am just not sure why.

You can definitely see a consistent rythm among good players in their practice strokes. If we look at this from a musical point of view, Steve Davis (off the the top of my head) strokes three or four quarter notes, and then his final delivery is a whole note. On the other hand Thomas Engert uses quarter notes as his practice strokes and his final stroke is a sixteenth note.

When I was goofing around today I was playing with the timing in my stroke. If I delivered my final stroke out of rythm with my practice strokes, not only would I miss the ball (very long straight in shot), but I would sometimes miss wildly. However if I kept everything in 4/4 timing, for example, then I would pot the ball.

So what is the reasoning behind this? Does anyone know, or is it just an accepted truth?

I think you're asking the wrong group. That's a very complex question. There is rhythm in lots of things that people do, not just pool. In fact, if you listen to music, you'll find yourself naturally picking up the rhythm. When you walk, you'll always find that rhythmic pace. Athletes use it in many sports that involve some sort of timing. I would say, without knowing much more than the average pool player, that it would have to do with mental preparation manifested physically.

 

[Klopek]

Well my opinion is the brain has some final analysis to do before it feels confident the stroke will be executed as planned. If you rob the brain of this phase, your stroke isn't zoned in properly. Timing has a lot to do with speed control and weight of shot.

With me it's the pause that absolutely can't be ignored. My warm up strokes may vary in number, generally I do them until I feel my stroke is grooved. Usually takes 3-4 warm up strokes, then a slight pause at address, backswing and another slight pause before forward stroke. This is how I set my timing, I'd say the pauses set the pace for me.

Rhythm has more to do with how you move around the table IMO. When you're in the zone and shooting lights out, you'll tend to spend little time deliberating over the shots and just put them in the pockets. When under pressure, most people start to think too much and slow way down, throwing off their rhythm. The great ones keep a steady pace whether they're up or down in the match.

 

[kaduku]

I think part of the reason you miss when you're out of rhythm is because your arm muscles are not coordinated properly to stroke straight forward.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I think part of the reason you miss when you're out of rhythm is because your arm muscles are not coordinated properly to stroke straight forward.

Yes but I think Cameron is wondering why this is so.

 

[X Breaker]

My uneducated guess would be that your brain works the best when everything is processing at a certain speed or rhythm. At this rhythm, all the signals are well co ordinated, so your eye, your arm, and your brain will be all working in perfect harmony. If you are out of this rhythm, then some part(s) of your brain and thus your body will be "out of beat" and things will not feel right.

Thank you.
Richard

 

[Scaramouche]

If I delivered my final stroke out of rythm with my practice strokes, not only would I miss the ball (very long straight in shot), but I would sometimes miss wildly. However if I kept everything in 4/4 timing, for example, then I would pot the ball.

So what is the reasoning behind this? Does anyone know, or is it just an accepted truth?

My highly unscientific observation and conclusion is that the rhythm of the stroke eliminates the distraction of how hard to hit - the quicker the rhythm the harder the stroke - so you can concentrate on the accuracy of the hit. The stroke trainer does the same sort of thing, slowing down the stroke by encouraging a slow rhythm when practicing with the gizmo, thus improving accruacy by grooving the stoke.

So, Cameron, are you asking Santa for a metronome?

 

[xidica]

Well my opinion is the brain has some final analysis to do before it feels confident the stroke will be executed as planned. If you rob the brain of this phase, your stroke isn't zoned in properly. Timing has a lot to do with speed control and weight of shot.

With me it's the pause that absolutely can't be ignored. My warm up strokes may vary in number, generally I do them until I feel my stroke is grooved. Usually takes 3-4 warm up strokes, then a slight pause at address, backswing and another slight pause before forward stroke. This is how I set my timing, I'd say the pauses set the pace for me.

Rhythm has more to do with how you move around the table IMO. When you're in the zone and shooting lights out, you'll tend to spend little time deliberating over the shots and just put them in the pockets. When under pressure, most people start to think too much and slow way down, throwing off their rhythm. The great ones keep a steady pace whether they're up or down in the match.

Couldn't agree with you more Klopek. If I could give you more Rep for this insightful post I would

 

[sde]

Couldn't agree with you more Klopek. If I could give you more Rep for this insightful post I would

I agree with you. Rep to Klopek is on the way.
Oops I can't either.

Steve

 

[bruin70]

it just is.....some things require no explanation. anyone who has experienced doing anything well, will say, on occasion when they duff a ball or somesuch, "oops, my timing was off"

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I agree with Klopeks post too. Another think I'd like to add is about the stroke itself.

Take Allen Hopkins for example, when he was in his prime. He had this ugly short jabby stroke. But he shot the lights out. This guy was one of the greatest players in the history of the game. He had very bad stroke timing, but he was able to shoot straight. BUT, Allen never had a powerful stroke. Many players will agree on that. He didn't need one, because his cueball control was so perfect, he rarely had to come with stroke shots. He played simple, high percentage shots. His stroke timing is the reason why he didn't have a power stroke, like Earl Strickland for example. Earl has great timing and rythm. Allen didn't, but still played great nonetheless. My conclusion is that you need good timing and stroke rythm to have a good power and finesse stroke.

 

[VIProfessor]

El ritmo!

I agree with you. Rep to Klopek is on the way.
Oops I can't either.

Steve

Don't worry, xidica and sde, I got ya! Rep points to Klopek!

I don't think we talk enough about rhythm, and maybe this will be a start. The fact is that rhythm is intrinsic to just about everything--from the rotation of the earth, to our heartbeats, to our pool game. If we think about it, nothing works as well if it is not 'in sync'. The same with our pool game. Although we try to minimize the number of moving parts in our stroke, we are unavoidably using multiple muscles and nerves in its execution. Rhythm and itiming are what allow them to be in sync. If they are not in sync the accuracy and fluidity of the stroke are negatively impacted.

As Klopek said, rhythm is more than the timing of the stroke, but relates to the overall pace--how the player moves around the table, how he gets down on the shot, etc. This is of tremendous important to the mental and emotional aspects of the game. For the most part, African people subscribe to the concept that rhythm has tremendously important emotional and spiritual qualities. Thus, rhythm plays an integral part in artistic expression, religioius ceremony and everyday life. If we look at music, or making love, the best performance occurs when the participants mesh into a rhythm, and when they fall into that rhythm, extraordinary emotional heights can be reached. When you're in rhythm, nothing is forced and nothing is difficult, it just flows.

It is the same with our game. Every player has his or her own personal rhythm, and when they are in sync with it--when they are in the groove, every part of their game becomes smoother, more powerful, focused and precise (recall Fast Eddie's almost awe-inspired comment on Fats, "He moves like dancer!"). When they are not in sync with that personal rhythm, it again shows in every aspect of their game, and the TV commentator is likely to say, "Player B doesn't appear comfortable right now."

In short, rhythm matters in pool because it is an integral part of life itself.

 

[whitewolf]

I think you're asking the wrong group.

I think that you are forgetting that Whitewolf is here to explain everything It is nice being married to a psychologist.

All kidding aside, I believe that to play pool at the top level, one must play while fully utilizing the right side of the brain. How I think rhythm affects this ---> in a minute.

The worst enemy of a pool player is the left side of the brain talking to him during the shot process. Chit chatter, this is what you must get rid of.

One poster suggested a metrodome, which is not only funny but is a good idea for what concept I am trying to convey. I used to be a pretty good piano player, and in playing before judges an important thing was to stay in rhythm. This meant not getting exited and rushing your fingers. Of course having rhythm helps. In practice I would concentrate only in staying within the proper rhythm and my fingers learned to follow within this guideline AFTER many hours of practice.

In pool, if you practice and play within a set rhythm, everything else falls into place naturally. Your body and your mind start to work in sync, and it is this steadiness and familiarity that helps us shoot better. i.e. only when the body and mind seem extremely confortable working together can we even begin to venture playing on the right side of the brain.

The right side of the brain 'feels' what we should be doing. It deals with visualizations, symbols (anti-chatter ). You can actually see and feel eveything before you shoot the shot. It is like executing a machine language in computers vs. lousy language (inefficient chatter box side of the left side of the brain).

In summary, rhythm helps you get to using the right side of your brain which helps you get into the ZONE.

 

[matcase]

It seems to me, once I have gotten over the shot and established practice stroke rhythm I am very balanced and still. If I think too much or change the rhythm or speed of stroke, I upset the balance and end up moving or jumping up and accuracy goes away. So could it be that strokes out of rhythm mess up your balance and accuracy?

 

[whitewolf]

It seems to me, once I have gotten over the shot and established practice stroke rhythm I am very balanced and still. If I think too much or change the rhythm or speed of stroke, I upset the balance and end up moving or jumping up and accuracy goes away. So could it be that strokes out of rhythm mess up your balance and accuracy?

That's the ticket!

 

[TATE]

I'm not disputing that it does play an important part in our game. I am just not sure why.

You can definitely see a consistent rythm among good players in their practice strokes. If we look at this from a musical point of view, Steve Davis (off the the top of my head) strokes three or four quarter notes, and then his final delivery is a whole note. On the other hand Thomas Engert uses quarter notes as his practice strokes and his final stroke is a sixteenth note.

When I was goofing around today I was playing with the timing in my stroke. If I delivered my final stroke out of rythm with my practice strokes, not only would I miss the ball (very long straight in shot), but I would sometimes miss wildly. However if I kept everything in 4/4 timing, for example, then I would pot the ball.

So what is the reasoning behind this? Does anyone know, or is it just an accepted truth?

I don't think a pool players stroke should be 4/4 or be constantly even. In fact, I would view a perfectly even rythym as mechanical. I think practice strokes should be in reaction to your thoughts.

It seems to me that a lot of players, have two distinctly different practice strokes. I know I do. One is to draw a bead on the shot, to aim and adjust tip position. On those strokes I'm holding the tip near the cue ball and making tiny adjustments, then coming back with a couple of "check" strokes - to make sure it's right. This might take a couple of times over to feel right. Then I take a couple of warm up strokes to loosen the arm and to imagine the "feel" of the shot. The last stroke or two are the rythym strokes, where all I am thinking about is executing what I've set out to do. That's also where you see the good players show their good rythym, as if Lawrence Welk was telling them "a one and a two".

Chris

 

[matcase]

Agree with Tate. Shots differ, so does the rhythm for executing these individual shots. You have to guage this rhythm for the circumstance and be consistant when executing. It is difficult to have the same timing for a delicate kill speed shot as would be needed for a firm shot i.e. across the table twice for shape.

 

[Island Drive]

I've always found "Rhythm" of stoke to mean different things:

Warm up swings "build" one upon another in 2 ways.
Warm up swings either 'increase in speed' or 'decrease in speed' until its accepted by the brain knowing the next swing you will pull the trigger.

The warm up swings should never be exactly the same each time (pump/pump/samo/samo motion), if you do you'll never develop your proper throwing motion and feel/muscle memory will not form properly.

Timing is, once the player has 'accepted' the feel of the warm up swings, they set (cue tip stops at cue ball).............. pause (at the top of the back swing)-finish (contact cue ball with follow through), this part of the swing also has its own rhythm (delivery action/pace), IE its "time" to hit.

In retrospect there are swing rhythms, and there is also rhythm that is throughout ones whole game, Buddy Hall comes to mind as a perfect example of shot to shot rhythm, getting up after your shot and walking to the next shot rhythm/or pace, walking up and getting down on the next shot also has a certain pace/rhythm to it.

 

[Klopek]

I don't think a pool players stroke should be 4/4 or be constantly even. In fact, I would view a perfectly even rythym as mechanical. I think practice strokes should be in reaction to your thoughts.

It seems to me that a lot of players, have two distinctly different practice strokes. I know I do. One is to draw a bead on the shot, to aim and adjust tip position. On those strokes I'm holding the tip near the cue ball and making tiny adjustments, then coming back with a couple of "check" strokes - to make sure it's right. This might take a couple of times over to feel right. Then I take a couple of warm up strokes to loosen the arm and to imagine the "feel" of the shot. The last stroke or two are the rythym strokes, where all I am thinking about is executing what I've set out to do. That's also where you see the good players show their good rythym, as if Lawrence Welk was telling them "a one and a two".

Chris

Great post, there's a lot of great posts in this thread. Everyone's really coming with some serious thoughts. Refreshing after all the time wasted in the IPT forum bickering.

The underlying theme I'm noticing from most posts is that all the actions prior to firing the stroke are just to steady the nerves and brain and prepare ourselves for a task that requires great concentration.

When you're talking about a pretty girl one minute than focusing on a nearly impossible cut shot the next, the brain needs time to switch into gear.

NOTE: I'll correct my earlier post, there is a rhythm to the stroke. Some people use quick short strokes, some use slower longer strokes. I guess you use whatever feels right for the shot and don't think about it too much.

 

[Klopek]

I agree with Klopeks post too. Another think I'd like to add is about the stroke itself.

Take Allen Hopkins for example, when he was in his prime. He had this ugly short jabby stroke. But he shot the lights out. This guy was one of the greatest players in the history of the game. He had very bad stroke timing, but he was able to shoot straight. BUT, Allen never had a powerful stroke. Many players will agree on that. He didn't need one, because his cueball control was so perfect, he rarely had to come with stroke shots. He played simple, high percentage shots. His stroke timing is the reason why he didn't have a power stroke, like Earl Strickland for example. Earl has great timing and rythm. Allen didn't, but still played great nonetheless. My conclusion is that you need good timing and stroke rythm to have a good power and finesse stroke.

Great post.

Players like Hopkins who choose high percentage shots, know their limitations and don't go for too much always seem to do very well. Since they play such a straight game, there's less chance of it all unravelling under pressure. Hopkins played to his strengths and avoided situations that tested his limitations. This is what makes world champions.

Players like Strickland who are like lightning in a bottle can really shine if all pistons are firing in synch, but this kind of volatility can crumble under pressure. (See: cue smashing episode at the Mosconi Cup, along with the thousand other break downs). Earl's stroke is very powerful, but sometimes he tries for too much and gets himself in trouble. This is what hinders world champions.