Why don't cuemakers do this? More to the point why don't we let them?

[fastone371]

Why can't some of these cuemakers with 10 year waiting lists get their cues made quicker? Do they watch the wood age as it's happening rather than do something else while they wait? I have been to Tony's shop, Jackson Cue many times, he has probably 30 cues under construction at any one time. He has 20-30 lathes all set up to perform a different procedure during cue construction. I am sure that there are steps in cue making that you can have a laborer complete without affecting the value/quality of a cue. One would think if a cue maker has years worth of cues to be completed that they might find a way to get them completed a little quicker. A strike while the iron is hot kind of thing.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Sure....

I really think the Hopkins Super Expo is more for the cue makers than any other show or event.

The last time I went there, years ago, there were tons of cue makers. It seemed to be mostly from the East coast, but there were many makers there.

If you go to DCC, which IMO, is the best event of the year for pool, there is a shrinking number of vendors there. So why cue makers aren't doing more shows or events, is that they aren't making any money verses the cost. The top cue makers don't need it for business, (SW, Tasc, BB, Gina, etc.), and the other makers don't see it makes good value for the dollars.

Here at AZ, they did raffles for a short period of time, but someone complained and now it has gone away. Rumored to be the guy from Cue Components but I never saw any proof.


The point I want to make is we "honor" some of the worst cue makers in customer service, and are flat out liars. I seem to remember someone made a video of Showman, and if anyone with any integrity had researched a little they would have found a much more deserving cue maker to "honor" with a feature video. But that's just me. There are folks that wear Charles Manson t-shirts. Whatever.

I wish everyone the best of rolls.

Ken

 

[slide13]

The problem comes with those cuemakers not wanting to attend shows, because it's more money out of their pocket and they already have a their books filled with orders, so they think it doesn't benefit them. While I would love to see a cue show, like Blade and The Gathering, it will probably never happen.

I too wish there was something similar to the knife shows, would be amazing to see all the custom makers with a table and some available cues.

Nice to see another USNer over here, too!

 

[phil dade]

I know plenty of people that carry $500-$1000 knives every day. I'm one of them. I know plenty more who have safes full of them. Also I dont think you have been around many knife guys to make that last statement. The collectors who pay $1000's for knives have just as keen an eye as any cue guy.

Justin, you must be a member of USN. If you are not, it is a must. It IS THE FORUM FOR KNIVES. It is extremely well run and covers everything about knives plusother things of interest; guns, watches, et.

I collected custom folders and had somewhere between 55-60 on display in a curio cabinet in my family room. I had Emersons, Munroe, Strider, Bogulewski, Gayeon, Hinderer, Ralph, Williams, Onion, ...I can not remember all. While a few folders go over $5K, not many. However some special fixed blades can go north of $10K.

I woke up one day and totally lost interest...sold everything except a couple carry knives.

Your idea is really good. However, what would a maker say to the guy who has been waiting 2-4 years and he sees a few cues on the table for a drawing? i know if I waited several years for a cue, I would not like to see time alloted to making cues for drawings.

It is a great idea, good for everyone except people waiting already.

BTW, buying custon knives is a real sickness. I am glad I recovered.

 

[slide13]

Justin, you must be a member of USN. If you are not, it is a must. It IS THE FORUM FOR KNIVES. It is extremely well run and covers everything about knives plusother things of interest; guns, watches, et.

.....

BTW, buying custon knives is a real sickness. I am glad I recovered.

I wonder how many USNers we have over here? It's sounding like a fair few!

I'm a recovering knife addict too, was real bad for a while many years ago. These days I just have one custom slip joint right now and that is it. Most days I just carry a SAK Pioneer because it's so damn useful.

I just wish I had kept some of the knives because ones I bought for $300-500 are now selling for $1500 in some cases! Ugh, who knew!

 

[DAVE_M]

I too wish there was something similar to the knife shows, would be amazing to see all the custom makers with a table and some available cues.

Nice to see another USNer over here, too!

IIRC, we have a few of the Suspects on AzB. The USN is my home now. I'm on 8ish forums and the USN is the only forum without all the bull.

Your idea is really good. However, what would a maker say to the guy who has been waiting 2-4 years and he sees a few cues on the table for a drawing? i know if I waited several years for a cue, I would not like to see time alloted to making cues for drawings.

I would definitely be upset. The last custom knife, that I ordered, I was given a date it would start and a date it would be finished. It was finished on time and I had it in my hands when I was supposed to. The last time I ordered a cue, I got my refund 9 months after the cue was supposed to be in my hands.

See the difference? :thud: :killingme:

 

[skins]

BTW, buying custon knives is a real sickness. I am glad I recovered.

And buying cues isn't? Lol..

 

[poolhustler]

In the knife community, you can get a nice custom knife for $200

Name 3 nice Custom knives you can get for $200??

 

[DAVE_M]

Name 3 nice Custom knives you can get for $200??

Are you asking, because you want a custom knife, or are you asking, because you want to start a pissing contest on what you think is a nice custom?

I paid $220 shipped for this one and it's a full custom:

 

[JCIN]

I'm curious, what sort of custom knives are you into? I too am into custom knives, though it's something I was way more into years ago. Back then it was tacticals (Mayos, Scott Cooks, Obenauf, JW Smith, JL Williams, Hinderer,etc). These days I'm mostly just interested in slip joints from Erickson or Bose.

And I agree with you. I spent 9 years on Reese Bose's list waiting for a knife I ordered and in that time I'm sure he made a dozen or more knives off-list that were for show lottery's or whatever. I have zero problem with that as I have access to those if I want to go to the show too. If you want something built specifically for you that is when you have to wait and that wait includes them doing some off-list knives.

Cue making is different though, it certainly takes a lot longer that is for sure. A few days and a maker can go from raw materials to a completed simple slipjoint. Both require skill, but cuemaking requires a lot of down time in between steps. Not sure how that factors in, but it's something I recognize.

And to Macguy's point - no, most custom knives are not just collectibles. They are often held to incredibly high standards in all aspects. I've carried and used customs knives daily in the past.

Tactical folders mostly. I have or have owned stuff like:
- Les George
- Jeremy Robertson
- Hinderer
- Kirby Lambert
- David Mosier

I sold most of them to feed my bolt gun habit. My EDC is this Jake Hoback Kwaiback.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Knife makers would laugh if they found out how long it takes to make cues .
They don't have to season woods for four years or so for shafts .
They don't need to take a 1/4MM off their blades then wait weeks to take out another 1/4MM.
They can hammer forge blades, and grind them in the same week
Even the ones who make folders and flippers do not have it as bad as cue makers when it comes to labor and time.

I watched a video of a famous knife maker on youtube. He was working on burl inlays. And he was so frustrated b/c he kept breaking the inlays. He was so dejected he spent some 3 hours making them and he only had maybe 4 that were good. Three hours ? Three hours of wasted labor to a cue maker b/c things didn't pan out is nothing. Think days,weeks and maybe months . Seen ebony crack in a FINISHED cue? If a knife maker had to deal with cue makers' frustrations, most of them would probably quit .

Some of the best knife makers takes months to finish a knife. I was getting started with knife making when I found out that James Schmidt lived only 15 minutes from my house. My son and I visited him, and I have never felt the same about fine craftsmanship.

Everything he did was by hand, with the very best materials he could find, the cost of which was irrelevant. His folders were the best and most beautiful ever made. I opened up a couple he showed me, and every one of them glided open and then snapped in lock position just like a Swiss watch movement. All done by hand, with sharp files and years of experience. "It's all about fit and finish", he said.

Sadly, big Jim died shortly after that, but his legacy lives on.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/533911-The-KNIFE-ART-of-a-LEGEND

I've seen some pretty cues, but Jim's work flat out made me misty-eyed to hold it in my hands.


Another maker that ended up living nearby was Paul Champagne. Paul was an incredible sword maker, who even dug up and smelted the steel for his blades from Adirondack iron-bearing sand. One of his swords was chosen over a Japanese-made katana by Toshishira Obata for his successful attempt at establishing a new record for cutting an authentic war helmet - the ultimate test of a sword's cutting ability.

I met Paul on several occasions. He was a quiet but extremely intense man who cared not a bit about money or fame, and would make numerous swords and break them before he was ever satisfied enough to let one out. He took an entire year off from making once just to study metallurgy. That's dedication. He died suddenly of a heart attack at 45 years old, and the world lost a supremely dedicated and talented artisan when he passed.

https://vimeo.com/58155594

 

[JCIN]

double tap.....

 

[poolhustler]

Are you asking, because you want a custom knife, or are you asking, because you want to start a pissing contest on what you think is a nice custom?

I paid $220 shipped for this one and it's a full custom:

Not trying to be contentious at all Sir. Was just curious what $200 buys in a custom knife.

I am not a collector of custom knives although I do follow them and lurk on most of the knife forums. The few customs that I have wanted are in the $2500 range!!

 

[JCIN]

Even then, if the best in the world makes 10 cues per year, that's 10 cues they already have sold to a customer. They would either need to increase production or make a few customers wait.

The knife industry stays well off, because there are a lot of smaller makers doing high quality work. Whereas the cue industry is full of low end garbage and only a few high quality makers.



The problem comes with those cuemakers not wanting to attend shows, because it's more money out of their pocket and they already have a their books filled with orders, so they think it doesn't benefit them. While I would love to see a cue show, like Blade and The Gathering, it will probably never happen.

The makers I talk to all loved the idea. But they said it would never fly because they would get crucified. So nothing changes. Yay!

Whats funny is this is already going on at every show. Its just hidden. Makers bring a cue and have a buddy move it so they can cover the trip. Not all do it but enough that its not uncommon. Anyone in the circle knows this and there is always a scramble to get whatever XYZ brought this year. But its all kept quiet.

 

[slide13]

Tactical folders mostly. I have or have owned stuff like:
- Les George
- Jeremy Robertson
- Hinderer
- Kirby Lambert
- David Mosier

I sold most of them to feed my bolt gun habit. My EDC is this Jake Hoback Kwaiback.

Ah yes, Kirby Lambert...I had a few of his back in like 2007 and he was one of my favorites back then. They were some of the most perfectly finished sub-$500 knives I had seen at that point, really nice stuff!

And that Kwaiback! I'm not really into tacticals anymore but I fell in love with the lines of that one when I saw one and so I snagged a mid-tech when one came up for sale at a good price. Didn't keep it long, just too big for me, but it was fun to play with and a really impressive knife to check out. Considering I sold it for enough to cover what I paid for it and all my shipping expenses, it was worth it just to get my hands on it for a while.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Just out of curiosity. What do you think something like this cost? I cant find prices on these things.

 

[JCIN]

I really think the Hopkins Super Expo is more for the cue makers than any other show or event.

The last time I went there, years ago, there were tons of cue makers. It seemed to be mostly from the East coast, but there were many makers there.

If you go to DCC, which IMO, is the best event of the year for pool, there is a shrinking number of vendors there. So why cue makers aren't doing more shows or events, is that they aren't making any money verses the cost. The top cue makers don't need it for business, (SW, Tasc, BB, Gina, etc.), and the other makers don't see it makes good value for the dollars.

Here at AZ, they did raffles for a short period of time, but someone complained and now it has gone away. Rumored to be the guy from Cue Components but I never saw any proof.


The point I want to make is we "honor" some of the worst cue makers in customer service, and are flat out liars. I seem to remember someone made a video of Showman, and if anyone with any integrity had researched a little they would have found a much more deserving cue maker to "honor" with a feature video. But that's just me. There are folks that wear Charles Manson t-shirts. Whatever.

I wish everyone the best of rolls.

Ken

I get it you hate Showman and you troll me at every opportunity. You are a perfect example of everything that makes me want to leave this game.

 

[DAVE_M]

Not trying to be contentious at all Sir. Was just curious what $200 buys in a custom knife.

I am not a collector of custom knives although I do follow them and lurk on most of the knife forums. The few customs that I have wanted are in the $2500 range!!

Gotcha! I'm very grateful it wasn't the latter! lol

You can buy a very nice custom folder in the $500-600 range. Anything beyond that is really the maker's reputation, supply/demand, and materials used. You can typically find a custom fixed blade for around $2-300, and sometimes even higher. Folders go for much more, due to how labor intensive a folder is.

The makers I talk to all loved the idea. But they said it would never fly because they would get crucified. So nothing changes. Yay!

Whats funny is this is already going on at every show. Its just hidden. Makers bring a cue and have a buddy move it so they can cover the trip. Not all do it but enough that its not uncommon. Anyone in the circle knows this and there is always a scramble to get whatever XYZ brought this year. But its all kept quiet.

I agree.

The makers would only have to take one look at the Cue & Case Gallery and see themselves getting crucified.

Just out of curiosity. What do you think something like this cost? I cant find prices on these things.

I've seen GTC Plasma's for $3,000. I would venture a guess and say that one was $5,000ish, if not more.

 

[JCIN]

Justin, you must be a member of USN. If you are not, it is a must. It IS THE FORUM FOR KNIVES. It is extremely well run and covers everything about knives plusother things of interest; guns, watches, et.

I collected custom folders and had somewhere between 55-60 on display in a curio cabinet in my family room. I had Emersons, Munroe, Strider, Bogulewski, Gayeon, Hinderer, Ralph, Williams, Onion, ...I can not remember all. While a few folders go over $5K, not many. However some special fixed blades can go north of $10K.

I woke up one day and totally lost interest...sold everything except a couple carry knives.

Your idea is really good. However, what would a maker say to the guy who has been waiting 2-4 years and he sees a few cues on the table for a drawing? i know if I waited several years for a cue, I would not like to see time alloted to making cues for drawings.

It is a great idea, good for everyone except people waiting already.

BTW, buying custon knives is a real sickness. I am glad I recovered.

I have been a member for a few years. Been to the last three Gatherings and will be at the one this year. The USN is a great place. I wish AZ was more like it in a lot of ways.

As for the wait thing for me as a cue guy I would rather have the makers involved and at the shows generating excitement for the entire event and know it may take longer for me to get what I want than not have them involved and not have any excitement in an industry that is slowly dying on the vine.

Sounds like you had a helluva collection. I too caught the knife sickness bad for awhile. It sure was fun though. Its kind of worked out now that I go to the gathering with the plan to buy one knife. So far its working out well.

 

[poolhustler]

Gotcha! I'm very grateful it wasn't the latter! lol

You can buy a very nice custom folder in the $500-600 range. Anything beyond that is really the maker's reputation, supply/demand, and materials used. You can typically find a custom fixed blade for around $2-300, and sometimes even higher. Folders go for much more, due to how labor intensive a folder is.



I agree.

The makers would only have to take one look at the Cue & Case Gallery and see themselves getting crucified.



I've seen GTC Plasma's for $3,000. I would venture a guess and say that one was $5,000ish, if not more.

I haven't followed fixed blades at all although some are exquisite! I collect mainly production LE's and have been fading away from them and looking more seriously at some customs. Will Moon and Ray Laconico right now...

For a while I was really into custom cues and the head aches of dealing with cue makers drove me away. From my experience, the knife market is so much larger (custom/production) than cues, that you really can't compare the two.