Why don't Pro Players have jobs?

lodini said:
Sigh... Since this is about me, I will clarify. Any professional athlete, no matter what their salary (or "winnings" in this case) should be able to double or triple (sometimes a lot more) their money if they capitalize on marketing/promotional/sponsorship/endorsement opportunities. The "opportunity" is there to make a lot of money. A Nov 2006 issue of the SportsBusiness Daily estimates that Jeanette Lee makes around $3-5 million a year through endorsements and tournaments combined. Anyone still think there isn't big opportunity for the top players in this sport?

Thanks for the clarification, your post # 51 or so only listed winnings, which is the info on which I based my reply .... no mention of $3-5 M / year, which IS significant opportunity. I think many appreciate that JL is about the most successful at self-marketing in the pool world, any idea what #2 makes in endorsements ? What about #10 ? You see my point, there may be a select few who make lots of money, but there is no depth.

Dave
 
lodini said:
Sigh... Since this is about me, I will clarify. Any professional athlete, no matter what their salary (or "winnings" in this case) should be able to double or triple (sometimes a lot more) their money if they capitalize on marketing/promotional/sponsorship/endorsement opportunities. The "opportunity" is there to make a lot of money. A Nov 2006 issue of the SportsBusiness Daily estimates that Jeanette Lee makes around $3-5 million a year through endorsements and tournaments combined. Anyone still think there isn't big opportunity for the top players in this sport?
Thats ONE person,what about the thousands of others that strive to be a professional pool player?The fact of the matter is pool will never be a lucrative sport until the SPORT IN GENERAL cleans up its ACT.
There has to ONE professional pool governing body,NOT a bunch of mickey mouse associations that care about one thing,and one thing only,and that is lining their pockets and not caring about the players.
The players have to get rid of the EGO'S and join forces and SUPPORT that association.
A perfect example is the W.P.B.A.,a very well run pro billiard association.There is NO reason the mens pro tour can't be 10X more lucrative than the W.P.B.A. BUT until the mens tour(which ever one is going on at that time)start to join forces that will never happen.
Now i dont know the whole story about why certain people won't play in a DRAGON PROMOTIONS tournament,but you have to give Charlie and his group some credit.Atleast they are trying to do something.As a pro pool veiwer I sit back and wonder what the hell.
I just want to watch pro pool as entertainment, which it is.I'm sure everyone has their own reasons to do what they do,But i'm a paying customer(whether my league fees,puchase of pool equipment,videos,everything else)and when I go to a tourny to see my favorite player and he is'nt there because he does'nt want to play in that tourny or he packs up his cues and forfeits because he is a cry baby,well fck you.No wonder the sport is in trouble and won't go anywhere.
I certainly would'nt want to sponser anything in this sport the way its going now so i can see why major companies dont.GAMBLING is NOT good for the sport.Sure it might have helped pool 30 years ago, but not now.The veiwer wants to see PROFESSIONALISM.If pros want to gamble fine,do it behind closed doors like EVERY other sport.Having it plastered everywhere in the pool scene DOES NOT HELP the sport.And if you think im wrong,YOU are wrong.sorry.
Anyway i'm just rambling here,but until pool cleans up its reputation there is no hope for this sport.
P.S. I dont condone gambling at all.I just think it should'nt be the first thing that comes to someones mind when the word POOL is mentioned.
 
Last edited:
Lodini isn't saying that there are many like JL, Lodini talks about the oppurtunities for the pro-players.

Keep posting Lodini, I'm on your side :D
 
Roy Steffensen said:
Lodini isn't saying that there are many like JL, Lodini talks about the oppurtunities for the pro-players.

Keep posting Lodini, I'm on your side :D


Thanks for your support, Roy!:D
 
gambling is not good for the sport?????????????? you are just completely in the dark if you really think that.action is what draws and keeps most people in pool.thats a fact has been for years.without some sort of gambling pool, poker,golf and other sports would take a huge decline in popularity.whats bad for pool is the need for some poeple to post every single little detail of the action online,as it happens,live,24/7,who beat who,so and so is in this city,he lost 10 dimes,etc, thats whats bad for pool.
 
GAMBLING is NOT good for the sport.Sure it might have helped pool 30 years ago, but not now.The veiwer wants to see PROFESSIONALISM.
That sounds very authoritative. Where does this information come from? I know tons of people that don't care for or approve of gambling, but I also know just as many or more that love that aspect of the game.

I do agree that it should be kept on a lower profile...atleast as far as professional players are concerned. Potential sponsors can be scared of a player that develops too seedy of an image.
 
Last edited:
dimes33 said:
gambling is not good for the sport?????????????? you are just completely in the dark if you really think that.action is what draws and keeps most people in pool.thats a fact has been for years.without some sort of gambling pool, poker,golf and other sports would take a huge decline in popularity.whats bad for pool is the need for some poeple to post every single little detail of the action online,as it happens,live,24/7,who beat who,so and so is in this city,he lost 10 dimes,etc, thats whats bad for pool.
If you read my post that is what i was getting at.There is gambling in every kind of sport but it doesnt have to broadcast front page news like it does in pool.
 
DGunter said:
That sounds very authoritative. Where does this information come from? I know tons of people that don't care for or approve of gambling, but I also know just as many or more that love that aspect of the game.

I do agree that it should be kept on a lower profile...atleast as far as professional players are concerned. Potential sponsors can be scared of a player that develops too seedy of an image.
Lets get something straight,I gamble in pool,alot of people do im sure.Back in the "Hustler" days thats what people liked about pool,was the gambling part of it,just like smoking was cool back then.(p.s. I smoke)But in order for pool to be recognized as a legitimate sport it has to get rid of that reputation.And if that happens maybe sponsorship might happen as well.
 
jimmy-leggs said:
If you read my post that is what i was getting at.There is gambling in every kind of sport but it doesnt have to broadcast front page news like it does in pool.
then i beg your pardon sir:) and i recently made the same agrument about too many associations,tournaments and organizations all working against each other and acting like grade school kids.
 
Great Thread

I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed reading this thread. I have been debating on trying to take my game to another level or putting pool on the back burner and trying to pursue something non pool related. Being known as an "action" player really hasnt helped me at all when talking to local companies here in Hattiesburg about potential sponserships. Sure, I can get individuals or local pool rooms to send me to an event but all that has done is provide me with a "chance" for a temporary fix to financial freedom not a permanent fix. Keep the ideas coming, there really are some great ideas. I can assure you that hustlin or having to win is not the answer no matter how good you play.... JOHN
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM
liljon said:
I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed reading this thread. I have been debating on trying to take my game to another level or putting pool on the back burner and trying to pursue something non pool related. Being known as an "action" player really hasnt helped me at all when talking to local companies here in Hattiesburg about potential sponserships. Sure, I can get individuals or local pool rooms to send me to an event but all that has done is provide me with a "chance" for a temporary fix to financial freedom not a permanent fix. Keep the ideas coming, there really are some great ideas. I can assure you that hustlin or having to win is not the answer no matter how good you play.... JOHN
larger tournaments by way of corporate money is the answer john.i think we all can agree on this.the question is how to get everybody on the same page to make it happen.everybody keeps talking about a million dollar tournament and it CAN be done and should be done at least once a year.on the gambling note,booking winners and loses are part of it,how much has matching up and gambling done for your game john? how can you put a price on it?
 
liljon said:
I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed reading this thread. I have been debating on trying to take my game to another level or putting pool on the back burner and trying to pursue something non pool related. Being known as an "action" player really hasnt helped me at all when talking to local companies here in Hattiesburg about potential sponserships. Sure, I can get individuals or local pool rooms to send me to an event but all that has done is provide me with a "chance" for a temporary fix to financial freedom not a permanent fix. Keep the ideas coming, there really are some great ideas. I can assure you that hustlin or having to win is not the answer no matter how good you play.... JOHN
I think a action player like you should have a camera crew following you around the country and develop a reality show! Bet real money and get paid for the tv show.
 
Pressure

To answer your question gambling has definitely made me more seasoned and able to perform under the gun but as I get older I see other players that perform under that same type of pressure that Ive never seen gamble. I guess what Im trying to say that If I was gonna start over I would have rather been the guy who put all this enegy into marketing myself to where there was stability in the long run for my family rather then being able to be called " thats the non pro that I would want to shoot the nine for my case money" if I had to pick one.... Look at the money that had gone through my hands in the last five years and what do I have to show for it??? The answer is nothing to really speak of... If I could start over and put my energy into smiling, dressing nice, shaking hands, and being able to perform too I might be in a different boat then I am in now..... The thread appeals to me b/c I have an associates in marketing management and "chose" to be a road player or gambler... When they did that rite up in SI Nov 05 I thought that was awesome and would open some doors for me with pool.... It really did nothing except confrim that I was a gambler and gave me "black eye" with potential sponsers around here. These people in my area (local corporate people) new I played pool but really didnt think I did what I did until that article was released. My question now is "Is it really worth it to change my image and try to be a professional without a sponser?" The only way currently to answer yes is if some of the ideas in this thread could be implemented and taken advantage of.... Thats why I have been reading closely all day.... JOHN
 
john it might be very helpful to get in touch with stevie as he went through the same type things and a lot longer than you have.gambling as a main source of income is pretty much a thing of the past,theres just no real money in pool right now but im not saying do away with gambling because i love it and i can never perform without pressure.it is pretty much what you said,a temporary answer to a long term problem.i would say 80% of the top players in the world gamble and it doesnt seem to hurt their image at all.on a more personal note i think some of the games youve played and been offered have been out of line and i think youve been given bad advise by some folks in your own corner.
 
liljon said:
To answer your question gambling has definitely made me more seasoned and able to perform under the gun but as I get older I see other players that perform under that same type of pressure that Ive never seen gamble. I guess what Im trying to say that If I was gonna start over I would have rather been the guy who put all this enegy into marketing myself to where there was stability in the long run for my family rather then being able to be called " thats the non pro that I would want to shoot the nine for my case money" if I had to pick one.... Look at the money that had gone through my hands in the last five years and what do I have to show for it??? The answer is nothing to really speak of... If I could start over and put my energy into smiling, dressing nice, shaking hands, and being able to perform too I might be in a different boat then I am in now..... The thread appeals to me b/c I have an associates in marketing management and "chose" to be a road player or gambler... When they did that rite up in SI Nov 05 I thought that was awesome and would open some doors for me with pool.... It really did nothing except confrim that I was a gambler and gave me "black eye" with potential sponsers around here. These people in my area (local corporate people) new I played pool but really didnt think I did what I did until that article was released. My question now is "Is it really worth it to change my image and try to be a professional without a sponser?" The only way currently to answer yes is if some of the ideas in this thread could be implemented and taken advantage of.... Thats why I have been reading closely all day.... JOHN

John: If you believe you are good enough to compete in tournaments and do well, and perhaps have won a few already, then I encourage you to make a "business plan" for yourself.

Put your stats and goals down on paper, aswell as how many hours you practise and how you practise.

How many hours a week you practise drills, breakshots, straightpool, do challengematches, play tournaments and do physical exercise will show potensial sponsors that you are taking your sport seriously, and that you can show progress in practise and that you are aware of your strenghts and weaknesses. It's easy to make a excel-file for this.

I have made myself such a file and every minute I spend on a pooltable, or with mental training (books), motivation (dvd's) is logged in this file. When I play matches, I keep stats of every miss I do, so I know if most of my misses are easy shots because of bad shot-rutine or because of bad position play. I have only done this for 2 months, but my game has really improved on those months. (How great for a good player to show potensial sponsors that they actually improve their game in practise, and have stats for break & run ++)

Make a marketing plan about how you are gonna promote yourselves to the public (website, press releases, newsletter to press and people who signs up), and what is your marketing goals. How can your partners benefit on your marketing?

After some time with working on these things, take your friend in the marketing business out for a long lunch or dinner and ask for ideas and if he is willing to help you become a real professional.

I think almost every good player can succeed with working like this, but it takes a lot of heart (tnx Buddy Hall), hard work, dicipline, strong will and luck.

There is no doubt that it's easier to sleep till 4 and then go to the poolhall and wait for a fish ;)
 
80% of the top players in the world HAVE sponsors,im not sure what you were trying to say but gambling is not the reason that pool isnt as big as some sports these days.it was well known that michael jordon gambled high,nike didnt seem to care.same with tiger woods,he gambles high yet hes a household name.let me ask you this........... do you consider paying a cash entry into a pool tournament gambling? i do,you play the field and get odds on the money basically.so what now, we should do away with tournaments too? that should be just great for the game in general...........not!
 
dimes33 said:
80% of the top players in the world HAVE sponsors,im not sure what you were trying to say but gambling is not the reason that pool isnt as big as some sports these days.it was well known that michael jordon gambled high,nike didnt seem to care.same with tiger woods,he gambles high yet hes a household name.let me ask you this........... do you consider paying a cash entry into a pool tournament gambling? i do,you play the field and get odds on the money basically.so what now, we should do away with tournaments too? that should be just great for the game in general...........not!

I gamble myself, and loves to play good players for money to improve my game. BUT: I still doesn't think all of the gambling helps the image of pool.

Example:

Last eurotour I played Niels Feijen in one-pocket for some small money. I lost, and he played the best one-pocket I have ever seen. And I have gambled against Imran Majid, Marcus Chamat, Raj Hundal and Efren Reyes in one-pocket too... I know Efren can play better than he did against me, but Niels Feijen is a real real professional, so he plays his top game against everyone. He is not playing just good enough to beat you, he gives his best no matter what. That is GOOD gambling.

On the same eurotour there was another player, which I won't mention by name, who asked me to play some. I said sorry, but said that I knew Darren Appleton, Huijdi See and Marcus Chamat were all interested in gambling. He said, "I don't gamble those guys". So then I said, for fun, "play that guy then" and pointed to a helpless guy banging pool alone. (We all know the kind of guy, he's in his mid 50's, can't play but play 7 hours a day and does it mostly because then he have someone to talk to, a community to be part of)

The guy asks me if he's good, and I said no, because I knew his speed cause he played next to me and Niels earlier. I said it would be like stealing, even if he gave him the 4 and out.

The guy said "I like to steal", and went over and got him for 50 ? race to 10 with no handicap. The guy was happy that someone would like to play with him, but I felt really really bad. This is BAD gambling/hustling, and this kind of gambling/behaviour is the reason that there is few interest from companies to support the pool and it's image, IMO.
 
Last edited:
dimes33 said:
80% of the top players in the world HAVE sponsors,im not sure what you were trying to say but gambling is not the reason that pool isnt as big as some sports these days.it was well known that michael jordon gambled high,nike didnt seem to care.same with tiger woods,he gambles high yet hes a household name.let me ask you this........... do you consider paying a cash entry into a pool tournament gambling? i do,you play the field and get odds on the money basically.so what now, we should do away with tournaments too? that should be just great for the game in general...........not!
QUOTE"I'm not sure what you are trying to say".
Obviously not.Outside of the pool world pool is looked at as a seedy gambling sport.When a stranger in conversation asks you "hey what do you like to do for fun".You respond like me and say "I play alot of pool".Their response,which is typical,is "oohhh your a pool shark or hustler".Am i right?Well they wouldnt have this narrow minded idea of pool if the sport had a reputable perseption about it,would it?
Dont try to over analyze what people are saying,I KNOW THERE IS GAMBLING IN EVERY OTHER SPORT AND I LIKE TO GAMBLE AS WELL.But until the sport of pool which we all love doesnt change its image ITS DOOMED!
NO image change=NO sponsorship money=NO descent living for players.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top