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Danny Harriman
Guest
Thanks but your not in my shoes
Of course the WPBA have more respect for their fans, they also have a stronger organization than do the men, that's why they are more jovial and have a better attitude. I will say one thing though you can call me a sexist if you want but every women on the tour would love to have my brake playing ten ball without special wracking devices and or six inch pockets.
I really do miss real equipment that does not have grand canyons for pockets or super fast cloth where you don't need a stroke at all to run-out. We should not blame the players but more so the promoters, I competed in a tournament that was held at the Hilton hotel and granted it was a new event, 64 of the greatest living players in the world were present. There was plenty of seating available but almost zero fans throughout the whole event. I went to a coffee shop and hustled up two fans a women and her daughter,they were practicly the only fans at the event. Now I ask you is this our fault or the promoters?
Of course the WPBA have more respect for their fans, they also have a stronger organization than do the men, that's why they are more jovial and have a better attitude. I will say one thing though you can call me a sexist if you want but every women on the tour would love to have my brake playing ten ball without special wracking devices and or six inch pockets.
I really do miss real equipment that does not have grand canyons for pockets or super fast cloth where you don't need a stroke at all to run-out. We should not blame the players but more so the promoters, I competed in a tournament that was held at the Hilton hotel and granted it was a new event, 64 of the greatest living players in the world were present. There was plenty of seating available but almost zero fans throughout the whole event. I went to a coffee shop and hustled up two fans a women and her daughter,they were practicly the only fans at the event. Now I ask you is this our fault or the promoters?
Danny Harriman said:
I don't know where to put the blame- I knew about it but i didnt go. They could have Don King promoting it and to me, it is still just another UPA stop and no big deal.Too Far and expensive to bother with.It would have to be in my backyard or be somewhere that id like to see. Anyone from Pittsburgh here? Why didnt you go?
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Timberly
Guest
I'm about 4 hrs from Pittsburgh and when I first heard of it, I had every intention of going until I saw the dates. The majority of the players don't have full time jobs so the days of the week for most of them is not an issue. The fans, that don't play and work full time can't go to a week long tourney. This is one of the biggest reasons there are no more NAOT tourney's. It was a failure when it came to drawing anyone in. Everyone that needed to make money didn't make money. Had it been a little closer, I would've made the drive to & from each night after work. As it was, I couldn't work 8 hrs, drive 8 hrs, sleep, and do it all over again.Nostroke said:
Danny, I can't tell you how happy I was to see you posting on here. I've been wondering how to get in touch with you lately. Check your PM's.
Danny Harriman said:
Actually I believe both are at fault. The whole mindset of the promoters and players has to change. If you want fans then you have to develop them and put on a show for them. You get the fans then you will draw sponsors. Sponsors don't really care about players because they know that players want everything for free. The fans will buy the sponsors' product.
How many players publicize an event? How many players try to get fans to show up? How many players work the fans that do show up? How many players write to the local newspaper? Or pass out flyers?
Isn't it about time that the players learn that they are nothing without fans. And they will never make any money if they don't draw fans. Wouldn't you rather be paid for showing up rather then having to pay to play? Well, if you get fans that will happen.
Surely the players must understand that they don't have any money so where can the money come from? Duh. Fans maybe.
Unfortunately, Charlie Williams has done more to chase fans away with his attitude then he has done to attract them.
Professional players should insist that an admission fee is charged at every tournament and that the players receive part of that admission fee just for showing up. You know that Rocky gets $20 for his seats and sells out every time. Unfortunately he only has about 20 seats.
But you have to condition people to pay. If you keep giving it away then why would anyone pay to see you perform. Even prostitues are smarter than that. Nothing is free. Surely poolplayers are smarter than prostitutes aren't they?
Jake
jjinfla said:
No Jake, they're not. And that is exactly why they shouldn't be running the tours. I said that back when they started the PPPA. Even now, nobody thinks its true despite the horrible track record we have. For years we heard the cries of " Wait til we get a big name sponsor... then we'll make money!"
So.. we get a big name sponsor, the tour splits in two, and 4 years later both tours cease to exist. If I were to give the top player in your area $5000, what would he do with it? If we're being honest, we know that he'll probably gamble with it. He might add a little to it at first, but he will continue to gamble til its all gone eventually. That's what these guys are doing when they hold positions of power within professional pool.
Now look at the UPA Board. Half the guys I had never heard of before. All I can tell you about some of them is that they don't return phone calls. Nobody takes this problem seriously, therefore nothing gets done. I have said for years that we could use other games such as bowling, golf, even Martial Arts, as models to change this problem. Those sports have identified their target market, and they have established a fan base by employing marketing consultants - not cut throat tactics. They not only appeal to their loyal fans, they are attracting fans from other markets and from outside their demographic and getting them into their venues. They are doing so by being a step ahead of their established/ prospective fan base.
In pool, its the other way around. We appeal only to pool players. We sell only to the hardcore fans. Nobody knows anything about anybody in our sport with the exception of Jeanette Lee - and they will tell you more about how pretty she is than they can tell you about her game. After almost 20 years of our "image" campaign, we are still portrayed the same exact way we were before all of that started. Then, we have the most recognizable figure in our sport appear on a show called "Celebrity Pool". This gem will set back the sport 30 years.
As a player I understand what Jake is saying. As a fan I am confused as to what anybody is trying to accomplish. You must understand that the money is there. It always has been. Its just misdirected. Thats why $2500 owed to a player of Danny's stature is a big problem to our sport. I know guys that have played for sets that are more expensive than that, yet when its owed to somebody it takes forever and a day to make it right.
Danny, there is a UPA event at the end of the month. I'd be willing to pay your entry fee - no strings attached- just to sit down and speak with you and Frank to make this situation right. If you are interested, send me a private message and we'll work it out.
I find it kinda funny that the "other side" isn't willing to state their side of the story in a public forum. This, in itself, speaks volumes......
ghost ball
ghost ball
JustPlay said:
I have a video of Buddy Hall playing Johnny Archer, US Open 1991, the commentators are saying that "there are now 40 million people playing pool every year".
Since that number has gone up at least 6 times since then that is an improvement. The more who play the better it will get.
Jake
christopheradam said:Do you think maybe more tournaments should charge for attending the tournament? I would gladly pay $$$ to see good pool up close. I attend the Mohegan sun International challgenge of champions every year and they pack the house for the Men and the women every year and they charge no admission fee. Then its winner take all 50,000 and everyone else goes home broke. Are most tournaments like this where its free to watch. Don't get me wrong, I like watching such great pool up close for free, but if its going to help the players for me to pay $20 or more to watch the matches, then I'm all for it. I had Mitch Laurence and Allen Hopkins in my way last year and could not see too great. With that Glass sound proof booth and that 6 ft 4+ Ref standing in my way, I would have loved to upgraded my seats for a 20 spot..
They don't charge admission because they like to have a full house for the TV cameras (the Mosconi Cup also charges no admission for this reason). I believe the other reason is that if they did charge no one would show up. Who wants to pay to watch a race to 5?
jjinfla said:
Where is the improvement? Recreational playing- yes, home table sales-yes, fans at professional tournaments-no, big money sponsors-no. The numbers are meaningless. The US open paid $50,000 to Earl Strickland in 2000 with about 300+/- players in attendence, in 2005 the US open 9-ball will pay about $30,000 to the winner of the event with about 200+/- players. Where is the improvement?
The only improvement the "pro" pool scene has encounted it there are more world pool participants and better tours and tournaments in other parts of the world. Reyes, Souquet, Bustamante and a host of other world champion players haven't played in the US in a very long time, because their is nothing here for them to spend the money or time on.....
It's interesting that you brought this up.....I count myself as a fan of pool...I play but not at a high level....I go to the Reno Open where I see many really great pro-level players in competition...but after the first couple of hours I have to admit that watching players (seemingly automatically) running ball after ball....it gets somewhat boring to me....unless it's somebody like Earl Strickland or Efren Reyes....it's likely I won't stay to watch the entire match sometimes....does anyone else out there feel bored watching pool in this way?landshark77 said:
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Timberly
Guest
For me pool is like any other sport I watch.... I only watch who I'm pulling for. I've got one baseball team, one hockey team, and a couple of college football teams that I'll sit and watch the whole game. I can't watch other teams for very long. Some of todays pros were road players back when I was into pool so I know a few of the guys on the pro tour. I only watch matches that have someone I know playing in it. I'll look over at another table if I know it's a good match up, but my focus is on whichever person I know. Once their match is over, I usually leave the arena for awhile.wahcheck said:
pool as a spectator sport
Thank you, Timberly and Mr. Purdy for your responses....Landshark brought this point up, and I was thinking that if we, as knowledgeable pool fans, get bored watching pool being played, even at the professional level, then how can it be interesting to the novice or the great mass of people who don't know much about it? Maybe this is at least one of the reasons that there is no money in the sport...
Timberly said:
Thank you, Timberly and Mr. Purdy for your responses....Landshark brought this point up, and I was thinking that if we, as knowledgeable pool fans, get bored watching pool being played, even at the professional level, then how can it be interesting to the novice or the great mass of people who don't know much about it? Maybe this is at least one of the reasons that there is no money in the sport...