Why I Moan & A Death

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
perhaps this might clarify things for my detractors.

first, Elvicash, i dont think i am going to be able to meet up with you this weekend. as some might know i work at a naval installation, and one of our ex-chiefs was killed in a tractor accident last night. our building is very quiet so far today. plans are already underway for events, and as a result i will probably be on base this weekend. i was planning on being off tuesday and wednesday next week (5 day weekend), so i was probably going to work at least one day this coming weekend anyway. if nobody wants to believe this i am sure i will be able to provide a link.

second, regarding my moaning. of all the sports i have ever tackled this game of pocket billiards has been the toughest. i have taken lessons from Tom Rossman, Diana Minor, Mark Wilson, and now Scott Lee. i still listen to the audio/video tapes from Rossman, still at times review the material i received from Diana and Mark, and, yep, have watched the Scott Lee dvd twice and been through his notes.

i have bought four tables (7 foot Brunswick, 8 foot Steepleton, 9 foot E. A. Burgin, and the Gold Crown IV). i have bought all kinds of cues, i wont go into the makers. i have bought Kinister tapes, Bob Byrne tapes, have all kinds of teaching aids, such as the elephant balls, Rempe ball, pocket reducers, Buddy Hall cue guide, ghost ball trainer, Joe Tucker's third eye, been to professional tournaments at Vegas and Peoria. used to practice with the 1998 BCA 8-Ball champ (Dave) until he passed, bought all kinds of books from Phil Capelle and others, tape the ESPN shows and watch them constantly, bought all kinds of Accu-Stats tapes and watch them constantly, subscribe to Inside Pool, P&B Magazine, Billiards Digest, etc, etc, etc, etc. in short, i have been consumed with this sport/hobby for years now.

the point i am trying to make is that it frustrates me that i still struggle with consistently, and am not a world beater by now. i guess i expected more. normally when i tackle a sport (basketball, baseball, golf) it doesnt take me long to get pretty good. and please dont think i am being a pompous SOB in stating that. i am not Larry Bird, Don Mattingly, or Jack Nicklaus, never was close in any. my point, once again, is that pool has been the most difficult for me to somewhat master. and that does somewhat frustrate me. i realize there is no "Magic Bullit" out there, it takes TONs and TONS of effort to become an accomplished player. but after nearly 9 years of practicing/playing 2-4 hours a day i thought i would be better. and when those bad rolls start to happen it just compounds things, and gets me down mentally. i start to question if i am wasting my time. just dunno............:(

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
(snip)when those bad rolls start to happen it just compounds things, and gets me down mentally. (snip)(

DCP
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The "it" of which you speak doesn't exist. "It" can't do anything to your thoughts. Only YOU can think for you. Change your thinking to take back your power from "it."

Ta Dah!

Jeff Livingston
 
maybe you should play something other than nine ball. every post i've seen you make is regarding that game.

heck, maybe if you played more 14.1 or 1P you'd develop those skills you seem to be unable to grasp in your 9B game (hint: position and defense).

-s

/i don't own any tapes, haven't paid for any lessons (well, some 'informal' ones, but i like to gamble).
 
As a Varsity football coach and as Varsity Head baseball coach at the high school level, I have seen tons of athletes that work and work and work and simply cannot get there. No matter how hard they work, they simply cannot be great. I truly believe that some people are born with certain innate abilities for certain things. Maybe pool is not one of them for you. You can learn how to play decent, but you have to be born with a little something special to be great. It has nothing to do with athletisim or hand/eye coordination. I played college baseball and even played some semipro ball. I was an exceptional player. I led the the state my senior years in homeruns hit and wins pitching. However, you put a basketball in my hand and I look like an idiot.

Some people can just play certain things and some people just can't. That doesnt mean you have to give up, but if you haven't got to a strong level playing everyday for nine years, then it probably isnt going to happen for you. A lot of people need to wake up and take a dose of reality. It isnt going to happen for me either...my learning curve for the game is far less that where I would really like to play.

I'm not saying that you are wasting your time...but at the same time, you probably do need to do a reality check and point your life into perspective. You have spent everyday for nine years playing this game and it has left you pissed off and frustrated. It might be time to pick up a new hobby or put your pool game into perspective.

I gave up wanting to be a "pool player" a long time ago...and it was the best decision I have ever made.

This is just my opinion...take it with a grain of salt.
 
bomber said:
As a Varsity football coach and as Varsity Head baseball coach at the high school level, I have seen tons of athletes that work and work and work and simply cannot get there. No matter how hard they work, they simply cannot be great. I truly believe that some people are born with certain innate abilities for certain things. Maybe pool is not one of them for you. You can learn how to play decent, but you have to be born with a little something special to be great. It has nothing to do with athletisim or hand/eye coordination. I played college baseball and even played some semipro ball. I was an exceptional player. I led the the state my senior years in homeruns hit and wins pitching. However, you put a basketball in my hand and I look like an idiot.

Some people can just play certain things and some people just can't. That doesnt mean you have to give up, but if you haven't got to a strong level playing everyday for nine years, then it probably isnt going to happen for you. A lot of people need to wake up and take a dose of reality. It isnt going to happen for me either...my learning curve for the game is far less that where I would really like to play.

I'm not saying that you are wasting your time...but at the same time, you probably do need to do a reality check and point your life into perspective. You have spent everyday for nine years playing this game and it has left you pissed off and frustrated. It might be time to pick up a new hobby or put your pool game into perspective.

I gave up wanting to be a "pool player" a long time ago...and it was the best decision I have ever made.

This is just my opinion...take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

could be some wise words here, wise words indeed.

however, i am going to use the old Winston Churchill philosophy............"Never Give Up, Never Give Up, Never Give Up"

DCP
 
People play pool because they love the challenge of the game and they're having fun too. Find a local pool hall where you can meet other players and have some fun.
 
Time to be brutally honest. I find it hard to believe you were good at anything. I myself am one of those people who just picks something and does good at it. Jr olympic martial artist, point guard basketball player, sponsored starcraft player, Chess player, pretty good pool player etc. That is a WIDE variety of different things and the thing that i've personally found that doesnt change no matter what I do is how I approach the game. Certain rules I've learned so to speak.

First) In every "sport" the way I approach it isnt comparing to locals. I never ever ever EVER think I'm the best at anything. I learned at a very young age theres always someone better than you. Even if you're the best in the entire freakin country theres someone somewhere that's better than you.

Second) You can learn something from everyone. Like Efren said he learned the hard shots from the bad players and the easy shots from the good players. If a total "idiot" does something so screwy theres something to be learned. If someone SAYS something theres something to be learned from it. People that realize they know very little are actually more knowledgable than people that think they know a lot.

Third) Make no excuses. You have control of everything. If you make a mistake it's your fault and noone elses. If you get knocked out, miss a 3pointer, bad pass, lose in a video game, the table rolls off it's your fault. You have the control to learn from every situation and ensure it doesnt happen again. That is what practice is for. **Example: Like the other night I was left with a rail shot but the rail is not straight. No matter how perfect i run the rail it'll hang in the pocket. So I banked with speed and got shape so if i missed the ball would roll to the middle of the end rail with the cueball opposite. If it went in i had shape. If i missed he had a tough shot. Simple control issues. Not bad rolls. Everything can be controlled to a certain extent.

Lastly) Play the game and not the player.

It's all about percentages. Learn them and play them in ANYTHING. If you really want to be good at something then you have to realize you suck at everything even if you dont. There is no easy shot. There is no easy wins. Play the game and not the player. Who gives a rats ass if your better than someone... play the best you can always and focus like if you make a mistake you lose. Same goes for if you're worse. if you're not as good then play the game your best. Keep control of the match. If you lose at least you tried your best then you can work on improving more.

This goes for every single thing I've tried and I believe it to work.

I doubt you'll take the advice but whatever... maybe someone else will.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
People play pool because they love the challenge of the game and they're having fun too. Find a local pool hall where you can meet other players and have some fun.
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the last local pool hall we had turned out to be a front for drugs. it was open about six months, then closed due to being busted.

and a couple of years ago we had a shooting here in town, a guy killed his ex-wife, her new boyfriend, their two little kids, and then shot himself when the police came after him. rumor is that he was at the tavern playing pool the night before.

see what i mean about not having much in the way of competition?

DCP
 
cubc said:
I doubt you'll take the advice but whatever... maybe someone else will.
Click to expand...

you can ask anybody i have taken lessons from - i always listen and apply. Scott Lee gave me kudos for being a good student. i think that surprised him.

and i've repeatedly said l read these posts and apply some of the stuff on here. but like many of the PMs i get say, dont listen to the majority of people on here because they arent really in a position to instruct anyone. but.........i do read all the responses.

just because 2-3 people say i dont listen, the rest of you posters out there should not believe them. trust me, if you knew how many of these threads i have printed out and taken home with me.

DCP
 
I think it's good sometimes to stop playing for a time, like few weeks or so. It can give you some "retreat from your game" and allows to be critical on it. It can remove some bad habits and prejudices. Also, when you will come back at the table you will be very motivate. Sure it helps to progress!!!

It's also very important to go to the poolhall, watch some good player and analyse their game.You also have to play frequently with better player than you. If you only practice alone in your basement and do it bad, you will never progress, no matter the books you've read, the tapes you've watched or the lessons you've taken.

Finally, try to let the frustration outside of your head and keep your passion of the game!

I don't know who you are and just try to give you some ways to explore. I hope I m not so wrong and that you can take something good from this small post.
 
I only play one or two days a week, now. There's no more action if you can make five in a row. I still love it, and if I had traveled and stayed in action more, who knows. I do know this. If you are not born with the natural gift, you are working and practicing to still get beat by a good player. I feel that I have a great feel for the game, and almost the gift. I do believe that I could cultivate it into winning against some good players. But, with kids (the most important thing in my life), a job, and bills, there isn't enough travel time to become seasoned enough to knock off some of the top guys. Therefore, I keep it into perspective. I still play and will still match up. Problem is, match up with who? Money is tight for everyone right now. Everyone wants two balls the best of it. One thing is for sure, though. It is fun to be playing ten or twenty a game, and catch "the gear." Breaking and running out. Breaking, making one ball, and KNOWING you're out. That is why I still play and throw some change towards the game to make it interesting.
 
Maybe it's just me... but if pool was so "easy to master", wouldn't it lose it's fun and challenge? To me, the fact that I can learn something new from every shot I mess up is fun. If I was perfect at it, I'd stop playing. Even the pros aren't perfect, right?
 
billbOK said:
I think it's good sometimes to stop playing for a time, like few weeks or so. It can give you some "retreat from your game" and allows to be critical on it. It can remove some bad habits and prejudices. Also, when you will come back at the table you will be very motivate. Sure it helps to progress!!!

It's also very important to go to the poolhall, watch some good player and analyse their game.You also have to play frequently with better player than you. If you only practice alone in your basement and do it bad, you will never progress, no matter the books you've read, the tapes you've watched or the lessons you've taken.

Finally, try to let the frustration outside of your head and keep your passion of the game!

I don't know who you are and just try to give you some ways to explore. I hope I m not so wrong and that you can take something good from this small post.
Click to expand...

thanks for your post Bill. the thoughts are appreciated.

DCP
 
cubc said:
Time to be brutally honest. I find it hard to believe you were good at anything. I myself am one of those people who just picks something and does good at it. Jr olympic martial artist, point guard basketball player, sponsored starcraft player, Chess player, pretty good pool player etc. That is a WIDE variety of different things and the thing that i've personally found that doesnt change no matter what I do is how I approach the game. Certain rules I've learned so to speak.

First) In every "sport" the way I approach it isnt comparing to locals. I never ever ever EVER think I'm the best at anything. I learned at a very young age theres always someone better than you. Even if you're the best in the entire freakin country theres someone somewhere that's better than you.

Second) You can learn something from everyone. Like Efren said he learned the hard shots from the bad players and the easy shots from the good players. If a total "idiot" does something so screwy theres something to be learned. If someone SAYS something theres something to be learned from it. People that realize they know very little are actually more knowledgable than people that think they know a lot.

Third) Make no excuses. You have control of everything. If you make a mistake it's your fault and noone elses. If you get knocked out, miss a 3pointer, bad pass, lose in a video game, the table rolls off it's your fault. You have the control to learn from every situation and ensure it doesnt happen again. That is what practice is for. **Example: Like the other night I was left with a rail shot but the rail is not straight. No matter how perfect i run the rail it'll hang in the pocket. So I banked with speed and got shape so if i missed the ball would roll to the middle of the end rail with the cueball opposite. If it went in i had shape. If i missed he had a tough shot. Simple control issues. Not bad rolls. Everything can be controlled to a certain extent.

Lastly) Play the game and not the player.

It's all about percentages. Learn them and play them in ANYTHING. If you really want to be good at something then you have to realize you suck at everything even if you dont. There is no easy shot. There is no easy wins. Play the game and not the player. Who gives a rats ass if your better than someone... play the best you can always and focus like if you make a mistake you lose. Same goes for if you're worse. if you're not as good then play the game your best. Keep control of the match. If you lose at least you tried your best then you can work on improving more.

This goes for every single thing I've tried and I believe it to work.

I doubt you'll take the advice but whatever... maybe someone else will.
Click to expand...

Great advice here. Thanks!
:p
 
Competition hones skills IMO. The better players have nothing else on their mind but finding tough competition, the weaker players avoid it. No matter what your skill level is, it sounds to me that you need to focus on getting into competition at or preferably above your skill level on a regular basis. Then the game will quickly all come to you.
 
Dcp!

If you have actually taken that much instruction, and have over 9 years of practicing with that instruction and you are not a world beater, you only have yourself to blame!

I played pool since turning 21, and I played until I was 30 with a 2 year break inbetween the ages of 26 to 28.
I thought I was pretty good, and most places I could hold my own. That was until I went to one of Scott Lee's buddies.
Randy G. showed me that my stroke was out of whack and I had some other things I needed to work on.

Well a year later and all I can say is this! I am shooting the lights out on the pool table. My position play, and my saftey play is the only two things I really need to focus on, and I am doing that as we speak! (That was with only a year of instruction! Imagine how much better I could be with 4 or 5 different instructors and 9 years to work on it! I also know that I need to work on a lot of other stuff, but right now I am focusing on possition play for the most part.)

In the past 3 months I have been working on possition play, and let me tell you that it takes a certain mindset to get that down.
I just got 3rd in a local tournament against the best players in my town. Many of them have placed in the money at Fast Eddie's around the state. I have only played in this tourny twice and I got 3rd! Most people in this town were amazed that I did that!

What I don't get from you is this: If other have told you to play safe, or told you a different way to get shape; you get mad and argue.
You are already arguing in this post and trying to defend why you act the way you do.

Until you get rid of that mindset, you will never have the mindset that you need in order to play good possition or play good safe.

These people are trying to help you get the mindset you need for this game.
If you don't listen to them, or maybe you can't listen to them; then you won't have the mindset.

Maybe one of the other posters in here were right, maybe not everyone can play this game. Maybe your mind doesn't function the way it should in order to be good at pool. Maybe your train of thought is so far off track that you can't think in the right mind to play this game.

Maybe you should change your train of thought, or just give the game up all together.
 
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Enjoy the trip...

Not to sound to "Baba Rum Raisen'y" here but it is about the journey not the destination.
​
If you don't enjoy the journey don't take the trip.
You are sad because you haven't achieved "world beater" status. Sounds to me like you care more about the recognition from others than recognition from yourself.
Sounds more like an ego/self-esteem issue than a billiards issue.
A man is a measure of himself. A man that can live with himself and his efforts no longer has to worry about how others measure him.

Play pool because you enjoy it.
Learn more about playing pool... because you enjoy it.
Struggle...because you enjoy it.
Recognize your own accomplishments as measured against yourself.
If you only enjoy the recognition of others how shallow and fleeting that joy will be.
Now I have to go sit on top of the mountain for the rest of the day...:D
 
DCP,

What are your goals within the game? Please be as specific as possible, though I don't mean in terms of number of racks run.

- Steve
 
All those other sports you mentioned are different than pool in one crucial element..."mind". I don't mean intellect I mean something much harder to pin down. Mental state perhaps? Emotional makeup? Will? Heart? Even golf doesn't encompass this totally. Only when putting.

Only in games employing the small muscle movements of wrist and hand is this attribute critical.

Putting in golf is one. Basketball free throws. Darts.

I guess you just don't have the mental/emotional makeup for these types of activities. It can be developed, though, if you have the perserverance.

It is hard, though. The hardest thing there is to do because you have to be enourmously disciplined. To succeed at pool you have to succeed in controlling yourself first, not just the cue ball...both physically, mentally and emotionally and from what little I've seen you are not capable of that.

Ed
 
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