Why is censorship so prevalent on AZ?!
- Thread starter pharaoh68
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pharaoh68
Banned
Mr. Wilson:
First, While it is open to the public, it is PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Just try it, walk into almost any store and start a fuss about the policies they have. Use a stop watch. Make a note of how long it took them to ask you to leave...and not come back.
Good point. Now, if that store owner allowed several members of this site to say and do whatever they pleased (racial comments, threats of violence) when they pleased, and then kicked me out because I said 'hell', that store owner would probably lose business as people would be alittle confused as to what is sacred and what isn't in his store. Especially when his employees 9the moderators) enforce the 'store policies' that they see fit. If the owner wants to give them this power, set the rules out straight. Don't allow the employees/moderators to create rules of their own. Your analogy is weak.
Mr. Wilson:
How about plain old disurbing the peace?
Make your dramatic argument to the officer who shows up for the call.
Maybe He'll buy all that free speech mumbo jumbo. Try cussing him for good effect
Again, a bad analogy. A law enforcement officer does just that. He/she enforces a law. These laws a binding and set in stone. They are clearly laid out before the people as to what it allowed and what isn't. And I tell you what! If that officer tried to give me a citation because he objected to a word I used in a conversation that had nothing to do with him, I would 'cuss' him out. I'd also gladly go to court, and I'd laugh as the judge laughed in the face of the cop who so clearly is abusing his authority. Please. If you're going to use anologies, use ones that make sense.
Mr. Wilson:
I've tried to be impartial, but I will say something to one person, pharoah.
Make sure you understand, you are here because of an open invitation. ( everyone here is ), Thanks to Mike.
I understand this and I appreciate Mike for allowing me to be here. I never once had a bad thing to say about him. He hasn't wronged me in any way. I question your judgment and the validitiy of system that relies on the opinions of a few individuals with no set structure to it.
Mr. Wilson:
Your opinion is noted, but it is just one and making sure that everyone on the board knows it doesn't make it more legitimate.
I do not owe an explanation for removing, moving, editing...etc what *I* might consider hurtful to the board to anyone other than Mike Howerton.
If I choose to say anything in public about the decision, it is as a courtesy, not because I have any obligation to justify *anything* to you.
Well said. And I, Wilson, have no need to justify anything that I say to you. I am (and I use this term loosely) the victim here. I was the one who was deleted and I simply raised the question 'why?'. You decided to chime in with your response as to what is and isn't appropriate and why you delete threads and posts. But you never offered up a reason as to why. You never made an argument to support your case. You still haven't You are simply hiding behind the 'I am a moderator and I don't have to answer to you' crap! I mean, really! What the 'h***' is that?
First, While it is open to the public, it is PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Just try it, walk into almost any store and start a fuss about the policies they have. Use a stop watch. Make a note of how long it took them to ask you to leave...and not come back.
Good point. Now, if that store owner allowed several members of this site to say and do whatever they pleased (racial comments, threats of violence) when they pleased, and then kicked me out because I said 'hell', that store owner would probably lose business as people would be alittle confused as to what is sacred and what isn't in his store. Especially when his employees 9the moderators) enforce the 'store policies' that they see fit. If the owner wants to give them this power, set the rules out straight. Don't allow the employees/moderators to create rules of their own. Your analogy is weak.
Mr. Wilson:
How about plain old disurbing the peace?
Make your dramatic argument to the officer who shows up for the call.
Maybe He'll buy all that free speech mumbo jumbo. Try cussing him for good effect
Again, a bad analogy. A law enforcement officer does just that. He/she enforces a law. These laws a binding and set in stone. They are clearly laid out before the people as to what it allowed and what isn't. And I tell you what! If that officer tried to give me a citation because he objected to a word I used in a conversation that had nothing to do with him, I would 'cuss' him out. I'd also gladly go to court, and I'd laugh as the judge laughed in the face of the cop who so clearly is abusing his authority. Please. If you're going to use anologies, use ones that make sense.
Mr. Wilson:
I've tried to be impartial, but I will say something to one person, pharoah.
Make sure you understand, you are here because of an open invitation. ( everyone here is ), Thanks to Mike.
I understand this and I appreciate Mike for allowing me to be here. I never once had a bad thing to say about him. He hasn't wronged me in any way. I question your judgment and the validitiy of system that relies on the opinions of a few individuals with no set structure to it.
Mr. Wilson:
Your opinion is noted, but it is just one and making sure that everyone on the board knows it doesn't make it more legitimate.
I do not owe an explanation for removing, moving, editing...etc what *I* might consider hurtful to the board to anyone other than Mike Howerton.
If I choose to say anything in public about the decision, it is as a courtesy, not because I have any obligation to justify *anything* to you.
Well said. And I, Wilson, have no need to justify anything that I say to you. I am (and I use this term loosely) the victim here. I was the one who was deleted and I simply raised the question 'why?'. You decided to chime in with your response as to what is and isn't appropriate and why you delete threads and posts. But you never offered up a reason as to why. You never made an argument to support your case. You still haven't You are simply hiding behind the 'I am a moderator and I don't have to answer to you' crap! I mean, really! What the 'h***' is that?
Timberly said:
All I know is what she stated. If you have more reliable information, well ... then I guess you've made your point. I still think there is a arbitrary double standard in what is deemed acceptable and not acceptable.
I also am fine with that even though I wish it were not so. Mike and Mr. Wilson as his proxy can do as they wish.
pharaoh68 said:
You were given an explanation. It was a courtesy, not a requirement.
Mr. Wilson said:
No, not really, but that's not important either. The rules are the rules of the forum. I think they neither have basis in law nor need one. If I or anybody else think some of the decisions are inappropriate (and I do) that's a moot point, the rules are what the are. For that matter if you or especially Mike decide to change them or invent them arbitrarily on the spot, then so be it.
I think you would serve yourself well to ignore this thread. JMHO.
So, just out of curisoity, are the rules of the forum actually listed somewhere? I havn't bothered to look, but maybe a sticky at the top of the main forum would be appropriate. Basic things like:
No profanity or implied profanity
No racial slurs
Keep the personal vendettas to a minimum
Stay on topic
Those do seem to be the defacto rules right now, and they aren't really hard to follow. I do think that there are some serious issues with the way the forum overall is run, but it's Mike's business and if he wanted input I'm sure that he would ask. For now, it's the best that we have so let's try not to screw it up too much.
And Pharaoh.... you can't draw parallels between an internet forum and the concept of free speech. This is Mike's private site, and he has appointed Mr. Wilson as moderator. If you don't like it, and please don't take this in the wrong way, you are free to leave and start your own forum (I'm not even suggesting that you leave, merely illustrating it as an option). If you do so, and people leave here to join yours, Mike will see that he (possibly) made a mistake. If you don't, it would at least be polite to honor the way that Mike (through Mr. Wilson) would like to see the site run.
No profanity or implied profanity
No racial slurs
Keep the personal vendettas to a minimum
Stay on topic
Those do seem to be the defacto rules right now, and they aren't really hard to follow. I do think that there are some serious issues with the way the forum overall is run, but it's Mike's business and if he wanted input I'm sure that he would ask. For now, it's the best that we have so let's try not to screw it up too much.
And Pharaoh.... you can't draw parallels between an internet forum and the concept of free speech. This is Mike's private site, and he has appointed Mr. Wilson as moderator. If you don't like it, and please don't take this in the wrong way, you are free to leave and start your own forum (I'm not even suggesting that you leave, merely illustrating it as an option). If you do so, and people leave here to join yours, Mike will see that he (possibly) made a mistake. If you don't, it would at least be polite to honor the way that Mike (through Mr. Wilson) would like to see the site run.
pharaoh68
Banned
Mungtor, I have made no parallels or references to free speech. Go back and read if you must. I have responded to the parallels that others have attempted to draw. It was JAM who made the reference to politics and government. I never said anything about free speech except that if one person is free to threaten violence and get racial, why am I not free to say 'hell'? Surely there are worse things that have been written here. Don't say there haven't been. I've read them!
Likening this forum to a privately owned store was done by Wilson himself. Again, I responded by showing the holes in this comparison also.
And Mr. Wilson, in response to your statement of "I offered an explanation", all I can say is I have gone back through all five pages of this thread and I have yet to see it. Your have not offered anything except a repeated statement of your position and the authority that it grants you. That was never in dispute. I know you are a moderator. I know what your job is. Please stop reminding me and try telling me why I have to clean up my act simply to conform to your archaic standards of what is acceptible and what isn't?
If your only defense is that you are a moderator and as such, you are the bottom line, well, Icon was a moderator. Did this make him right in anything he said or did? If so, why is he no longer here? If you want people to accept your standpoint as valid, you have to prove it to be so. If you want to hide behind the mask of 'I don't owe you any explanation', thats fine. But you look more like someone who has no defense and not someone who chooses not to defend himself.
Likening this forum to a privately owned store was done by Wilson himself. Again, I responded by showing the holes in this comparison also.
And Mr. Wilson, in response to your statement of "I offered an explanation", all I can say is I have gone back through all five pages of this thread and I have yet to see it. Your have not offered anything except a repeated statement of your position and the authority that it grants you. That was never in dispute. I know you are a moderator. I know what your job is. Please stop reminding me and try telling me why I have to clean up my act simply to conform to your archaic standards of what is acceptible and what isn't?
If your only defense is that you are a moderator and as such, you are the bottom line, well, Icon was a moderator. Did this make him right in anything he said or did? If so, why is he no longer here? If you want people to accept your standpoint as valid, you have to prove it to be so. If you want to hide behind the mask of 'I don't owe you any explanation', thats fine. But you look more like someone who has no defense and not someone who chooses not to defend himself.
Can someone lock this and move it out of the main forum. This is getting ridiculous. This should have never made it 5 pages.
A Forums rules is a forums rules, plain and simple.
A Forums rules is a forums rules, plain and simple.
Here, verbatim, are the rules you agreed to in order to participate on thsi board.
In addition to these, I've been clear that ad hominem, name calling, vulgarity will not be allowed. Posts will be kept civil. Period.
AzBilliards Forums Rules
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I have read, and agree to abide by the AzBilliards Forums rules.
Bottom line, hold up your end of the agreement, or you will not be welcome here for long.
Not complicated.
In addition to these, I've been clear that ad hominem, name calling, vulgarity will not be allowed. Posts will be kept civil. Period.
AzBilliards Forums Rules
Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.
Although the administrators and moderators of AzBilliards Forums will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of AzBilliards Forums, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of AzBilliards Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
I have read, and agree to abide by the AzBilliards Forums rules.
Bottom line, hold up your end of the agreement, or you will not be welcome here for long.
Not complicated.
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