Why is Ivory still considered an ok material in the pool world

[JoeyInCali]

To save the elephants, someone should invent poisoned fake ivory powder .
Maybe they'd quit drinking that stupid shake after a few thousands of them die from it.

 

[Bavafongoul]

There apparently are a lot of ignorant-minded Azers on the Forum when it comes to ivory..........confiscated ivory is destroyed.......never used.........the ivory already in the USA is called pre-ban for a reason.....prior to 1978.....that ivory has been here for decades and not a bit of it is illegal nor confiscated......and then there's also other forms of ivory from other animals besides elephants.......legal ivory is.........LEGAL......not from recently killed elephants, or confiscated ivory.......it's from old, dead elephants........that ivory has been in our country a long time.....way before any animal protection legislation was enacted............so get behind the notion that when something is legal, then it is permissible to use it............read the law or else improve your reading comprehension skills.........the ivory in all my cues is legal........I personally know a cue-maker that made his final purchase of legal ivory last August and it was a $20,000 acquisition...........and every bit of that ivory he bought was LEGAL.........you want to stop poaching, then start an international movement for more game preserves and larger numbers of better armed & equipped game wardens or even military assistance.........consider it a job employment act of sorts.

Matt B.

 

[JB Cases]

There apparently are a lot of ignorant-minded Azers on the Forum when it comes to ivory..........confiscated ivory is destroyed.......never used.........the ivory already in the USA is called pre-ban for a reason.....prior to 1978.....that ivory has been here for decades and not a bit of it is illegal nor confiscated......and then there's also other forms of ivory from other animals besides elephants.......legal ivory is.........LEGAL......not from recently killed elephants, or confiscated ivory.......it's from old, dead elephants........that ivory has been in our country a long time.....way before any animal protection legislation was enacted............so get behind the notion that when something is legal, then it is permissible to use it............read the law or else improve your reading comprehension skills.........the ivory in all my cues is legal........I personally know a cue-maker that made his final purchase of legal ivory last August and it was a $20,000 acquisition...........and every bit of that ivory he bought was LEGAL.........you want to stop poaching, then start an international movement for more game preserves and larger numbers of better armed & equipped game wardens or even military assistance.........consider it a job employment act of sorts.

Matt B.

There have been reports of people having their instruments confiscated when going through US customs because they contain ivory. These people didn't carry certificates listing the the provenance of the ivory and have had a lot of trouble getting their property back.

Point being that if the interstate ban goes into effect then anyone traveling with cues containing ivory is going to be subject to having them confiscated if they travel out of state.

Cuemakers who have stockpiles of it will no longer be able to send cues with ivory in them out of state legally if this becomes reality.

 

[TATE]

There have been reports of people having their instruments confiscated when going through US customs because they contain ivory. These people didn't carry certificates listing the the provenance of the ivory and have had a lot of trouble getting their property back.

This being the major problem. Regulation after the fact. Each item needs to have a certificate of origin ot pre-convention certificate. Here is a summary of the law on African and Asian ivory:



African Ivory Sale & Export

Items consisting of African-elephant ivory that are already in the United States can be sold within the country or exported only if they are accompanied by documentation attesting either that:
1.The ivory was harvested prior to 1976; OR
2.It was imported prior to 1976, before relevant CITES regulations had been enacted.



Asian Elephant Ivory -- Import, Export, Sale Across State Lines

An item Asian-elephant ivory can be imported, exported, and sold across state lines ONLY IF it meets all of these criteria:
1.It has not been repaired or modified with ivory or any other part of a federally protected species (as defined by the Endangered Species Act) since 1973;
2.It is at least 100 years old;
3.It was EITHER imported prior to 1982; or after 1982 through one of 13 ports specifically designated for antiques; OR the item was manufactured in the United States from legally imported ivory.

Sale Within States

An antique containing Asian-elephant ivory can be sold within a state ONLY IF it is accompanied by documentation from CITES certifying that it was imported prior to 1975.

The information on this page is current as of July 7, 2014.




So, how many of you cue owners have that documentation? I have not even seen one come with a cue.

If Fish and Game showed up at your door, asked to see your cue for sale, they could legally seize it if you couldn't provide a certificate.

These laws are ridiculous and I believe unenforceable. The certificates of origin have been required since 1976 but were largely ignored except for import of ivory.

All I can say is, do not travel internationally with an ivory laden cue - you may lose it.

 

[Buzzard II]

Yeah ego, that's all. When I turned sixty I thought, I have the money, why not have a real nice cue?
So I bought a Schon with ivory ferrule, diamonds and such. It's very pretty.

Last week I played the best pool of my life against a much, much better player. With close pool playing friends as witnesses too. I was using my $200 McDermott sneaky pete. I though about that Schon and the other cues scattered about my basement. What a sap. Lesson learned. If I ever spent 5 or 10 G's on a ivory encrusted Black Boar carved by the elves of the Black Forest, I'd shoot myself.

Now I understand the "investment" argument that you tell your wife. And if this is what you want to spend your money on for fun or collecting, fine. But please, get real about how it helps your game.

 

[bral]

carved by the elves of the Black Forest

That does sound like a pricy option :grin:

 

[pwd72s]

(tongue firmly in cheek here)

The solution is obvious. Kill all the elephants.

None of my cues have ivory. I just don't see the need.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

That does sound like a pricy option :grin:

Probably not a great option either, everybody knows that german elves only make shoes...at night...and for lazy, old shoemakers.

 

[7forlife]

Yeah ego, that's all. When I turned sixty I thought, I have the money, why not have a real nice cue?
So I bought a Schon with ivory ferrule, diamonds and such. It's very pretty.

Last week I played the best pool of my life against a much, much better player. With close pool playing friends as witnesses too. I was using my $200 McDermott sneaky pete. I though about that Schon and the other cues scattered about my basement. What a sap. Lesson learned. If I ever spent 5 or 10 G's on a ivory encrusted Black Boar carved by the elves of the Black Forest, I'd shoot myself.

Now I understand the "investment" argument that you tell your wife. And if this is what you want to spend your money on for fun or collecting, fine. But please, get real about how it helps your game.

so what you are saying is that because you played great with a all wood cue for the first time in all the years you've been playing pool then this must be the case for everyone and at no point can a humans game improve or even just their sense of feel by use of a certain material?
I'm guessing that you cue is also not a LD one and people should "get real" about their predator shafts and how it helps their game.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Face the truth................................

We all play only as good as our mind and body allows us to play...............

Some days one's customary aches and pains can change.....ever feel a sore back, feeling tired, etc.?

The above relates to the body element in our pool playing.........

The mind concerns how we feel at the moment we play......how we approach the game.......

A fancy custom cue does nothing for the body part....your back will still ache, etc.

But it does make you pay more attention how you play......you just try harder to justify such a great cue.


Pool is more mental than anything else and if a fancy custom makes you feel better about your game or your self-image, etc., then indulge yourself. At the range, when the guy next to me is shooting a customized Les Kimber Colt .45 1911.......he's seldom likely to be a poor shot.......when the fellow at the pool hall removes an $8k Hercek cue from his case as his player, he's seldom likely to only be an APA level 5 league player.

Now I realize all of us may know someone who's flush with money and they could buy a $10k Black Boar cue and not be capable of running more than 4 - 5 balls........those situations can and do happen which seems sad but it's their money to do with as they wish........frankly, if it were me, I'd be embarrassed to take that cue out of my house until I could at least run a rack.

A custom cue generally is a positive motivator to try harder and that alone will elevate your level of play.

Matt B.

 

[HouseMan]

Stay cool, Donnie. I'm sure he's just kidding...

 

[fish2]

So the Elves of the black forest are taking orders again ?

carved by the elves of the Black Forest

 

[Dedeye1209]

I Believe that a nice Cue can assist mentally also by giving shooter/owner more confidence.

I am amazed at this debate about Ivory, how some people are so passionate one way or another. I wonder why the same debate is not had about elephant ear leather as a grip material. I know there is a lot of pre-ban ivory stockpiled by certain individuals. Paul Mottey comes to mind. I visited his shop in Pittsburgh about 20 years ago and he showed us basically an entire warehouse full of old tusks and pieces of Ivory. I highly doubt that someone has a similar stockpile of elephant ear leather.

I personally find the use of this material (EE) despicable. An ivory ban will definitely not stop the poaching and senseless killing of elephants, but that is actually going to take military action probably.

I can't imagine anyone being able to tell the difference in feel between Ivory, mircata, aegis, melamine, antler, or any number of materials. I would bet the bank if I had 10 identical cues with 10 different ferrule materials that no one could pick out the ivory from the pack with any consistency (I know you could tell by looking, not by feel).
.

 

[arps]

Ivory on cue - even if you lose a pool match, you still look good. :thumbup: