Why is pool like it is?

[Old Nine Baller]

Well stated. And I totally agree. Pool in America attracts some of the most unsavory characters to the game and unfortunately they bring their low-life characteristics with them and the game suffers. Airballing, dumping, hustling, cheating, lying, stealing, drugs...the list goes on. Decent backers and sponsers will not risk their hard-won reputations to be associated with such a motley crew. Until pool can clean itself up... the game and its denizens will always be bottom feeders.

Yea, what is wrong with pool is all those damn pool players. Where does all this venom come from? What personal experience do you have with all these terrible people? What do you base these observations on?
I think you are buying into a stereo type as much as the rest of the public often does. Pool is just an activity that millions of people do every week in pool rooms, leagues, clubs, condos, and homes all over the country.

macguy,

You didn't "quote" my post and ask me anything but if you don't mind I'd like to respond to the questions you did ask.

I've played and been around many of the best players in the Midwest for over 35 years and many of the things "kevpull" wrote are correct. It's not a stereotype if it's accurate. In my case they are not mere observations buts hands-on experience. A person just needs to learn how to conduct himself in a poolroom just as elsewhere in life.

Examples:

Being air-barreled can be handled by freezing up the amount of the bet with a counterman or someone else.

Dumping can be handled by never betting on or putting anyone in action.

Hustling; only a person with larceny in their own heart can be enticed to lose their own money to a so-called hustler. If you refuse to take money out of your pocket you cannot lose it.

Lying doesn't enter into it, I never believed anything I heard in a poolroom if it came from a guy trying to relieve me of my cash.

Stealing; I don't know how this happens in a poolroom but I did have a very good player steal a ball from my pocket when playing onepocket.

Drugs; Many people do drugs in all walks of life. You'll never get anywhere complaining about drug use in a poolroom.

All of that said, I think "kevpull" is correct in the public's perception of pool(right or wrong though the public may be) in this country and sponsors will run from things like that. I personally don't care a whit about poolplayers or sponsors or pool. Pool is something I enjoy for a hobby and the players and the public don't enter into it. I owe it nothing and it owes me nothing.

ONB

 

[macguy]

macguy,

You didn't "quote" my post and ask me anything but if you don't mind I'd like to respond to the questions you did ask.

I've played and been around many of the best players in the Midwest for over 35 years and many of the things "kevpull" wrote are correct. It's not a stereotype if it's accurate. In my case they are not mere observations buts hands-on experience. A person just needs to learn how to conduct himself in a poolroom just as elsewhere in life.

Examples:

Being air-barreled can be handled by freezing up the amount of the bet with a counterman or someone else.

Dumping can be handled by never betting on or putting anyone in action.

Hustling; only a person with larceny in their own heart can be enticed to lose their own money to a so-called hustler. If you refuse to take money out of your pocket you cannot lose it.

Lying doesn't enter into it, I never believed anything I heard in a poolroom if it came from a guy trying to relieve me of my cash.

Stealing; I don't know how this happens in a poolroom but I did have a very good player steal a ball from my pocket when playing onepocket.

Drugs; Many people do drugs in all walks of life. You'll never get anywhere complaining about drug use in a poolroom.

All of that said, I think "kevpull" is correct in the public's perception of pool(right or wrong though the public may be) in this country and sponsors will run from things like that. I personally don't care a whit about poolplayers or sponsors or pool. Pool is something I enjoy for a hobby and the players and the public don't enter into it. I owe it nothing and it owes me nothing.

ONB

I don't disagree with you all true but his generalization is the problem. If a guy goes in a pool room gets a table and him and his girl have a nice time playing for a few hours none on this has anything to do with him and never will. No one is coming up to him and trying to hustle him or his girl in his living room or condo where he may play.

These other things happen among pool players themselves. What do should we really care if one bum stiffs another bum. It has nothing to do with selling home tables or the establishment of a pool room or the industry it's self at all.

It could easily be argued that the outlaw reputation pool and pool players has, be it deserved or not, is just about the only part of the sport the general public has any interest in.
The Hustler and Color of Money were not exactly movies about someone having a religious revelation.

It is a bunch of bums complaining that they can't make a living playing pool and they can't get people pay to watch them. They do it to themselves and so what. I honestly don't think the future of pool has anything what so ever to do with the future of professional pool. Pool is an amateur sport enjoyed by millions, concentrate on that and you may see growth. I really don't care what a bunch of bums do to each other.

Image has little to do with no sponsors. Show them how they can make a buck and they would be on board. Heck, the biggest show on cable is about a bunch or repugnant red necks admitted bigots and they are happy to dump plenty of money their way.

Look at who follows NASCAR. They are the kind of people I would never rent an apartment to or probably hire for anything. A bunch of stupid beer guzzling loud mouth red neck bigots also and and I don't see sponsors steering away. Show a sponsor how he can make a buck on pool and they would not care what kind of people play it. I think we need to dispel that old popular excuse and chestnut.

 

[Island Drive]

There was less to compete with for peoples attention when Mosconi was playing. People saw pretty much every movie that came out, read books listened to the radio, read news papers scandal mags. and so on.

Going to a pool room for men, NOT women or children, was a pass time as well. We live in a different time today. You can't really look at the past and think that it can be repeated. I would not be investing in a company that wants to make B&W Televisions today using the idea that at one time everybody watched B&D so lets do it again.

You need to adapt to the current market conditions. At one time there was a market for pool people filled up arena's to watch. That market no longer exists. To give you an idea just how bad it is. News services and wire services where many news organizations get the stuff they put on the air will not announce professional pool results. I have tried and they were not interested.

As big as the annual US Open of 9 ball or the Derby is, have you ever seen the results on a national sports or news broadcast? How about Mosconi cup? No you have not. If you consider just that as a small poll or sampling of the demand for pool you would conclude, there must no be any. The public it would seem, does no want to watch or hear about pool. Making pool much more then what it is right now is a real up hill effort.

Then why is that darn soccer ball so important Now :grin-square:

 

[macguy]

Then why is that darn soccer ball so important Now :grin-square:

In the US at least for now, it is a fad. See if anyone has the least bit of interest in soccer next month.
That is why I am always optimistic about pool. It is not a fad and has a long history. It wakes up every so often and has a surge, but it never really goes away. Pool is pretty solid.

 

[Banks]

In the US at least for now, it is a fad. See if anyone has the least bit of interest in soccer next month.
That is why I am always optimistic about pool. It is not a fad and has a long history. It wakes up every so often and has a surge, but it never really goes away. Pool is pretty solid.

It's just been set in a very boring atmosphere too often, imo.

 

[mark187]

In the US at least for now, it is a fad. See if anyone has the least bit of interest in soccer next month.
That is why I am always optimistic about pool. It is not a fad and has a long history. It wakes up every so often and has a surge, but it never really goes away. Pool is pretty solid.

Soccer is huge outside the US, through south America, Europe, Africa and Asia. In these continents it is not a fad, and that's why it's popularity endures, why billions watch the world cup, why sponsorship is enormous and why TV companies pay hundreds of millions for TV rights each season. Pool will never compete on this scale. In most countries it isn't even the most popular cue sport, often behind 3c, snooker and whatever that weird game is called they play in Russia (pyramid?).

I think pool's popularity is huge when it comes to participation. The joy is in personal achievement, local competitiveness, socialising, and having a good shot at becoming a decent player if you put the work in. For me- I'll never be anything but bad at most sports I play, when I do play there's no way I can be even the best in a bad bunch, I will probably get injured or at least have to take a few days to recover (darts excepted, unless I'm playing someone with really bad aim). I won't be able to play these sports when I'm in my 70s, when I've stuffed myself with steak, or with a large whisky in my hand.

These are the reasons I love pool. A game I can get good at and feasibly play for life. I don't care that the general public in the wider sense don't care about pool, I do and enough people I know do so that I never have to search hard to find a game.

There's still some money to be made in the game, and like in most sports popularity peaks and troughs. I do think that TV channels are missing a trick though, there are a lot of viewers they are blindly neglecting. This will change in time, just look at the meteoric rise in popularity of darts over the last through years, and the resurgence in snooker over the last few seasons. Thinking about it, I think Barry Hearn deserves a lot of the credit, but all he really did was deliver what people were demanding.

Sorry, I'm rambling on. My point really, is that pool is a massive participation sport, and that's not going to change. It's never going to be as big as soccer, it's not that kind of beast. Pool is a game that never gets boring or predictable to play. It is, essentially, a pointless and bizarre game where people will practice for thousands of hours to perfect the art of hitting balls around a table with a stick. It's stupid, it's ridiculous, but I love it!

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

 

[jonnyrocket]

i have questions that may resolve with answers

#1 I want to be a professional pocket billiards player how do I do that?
#2 which events give me status in rankings?
#3 how often are the yearly rankings updated?
#4 who controls the ranking's being published?
#5 why is Pool not on a major network and if it ever was who owned the rights to that production after it was aired once?
#5 how can a promoter make money back after his investment?
#6 is there a non profit union that will govern and look out for aspiring and seasoned pro's to help me with things i don't know?
#7 what is standard for the way it is? who is making money off of the way it is?
#8 why does pool only cover one match at a time during a tournament instead of bouncing around to keep it interesting during video capture?
#9 how come every time I go to a tournament the tables are close enough together to get a pool cue in the butt?
#10 how many players at a pro tournament need to make more then their investment back to continue to play in tournaments? 20% or 30% or 40%
#11 if I can make a living as a pool player will I continue to gamble all night when i need to wake up for a match tomorrow?
#12 why are tables changed before a match if a "famous player" doesnt like the one that was assigned?
#13 why do pro players not get involved with the youth?
more questions will come!!

 

[tony frank]

The press is owned and controlled by certain people / factions. If they do not get enough $ out of something so they go !!

Tony

 

[Ruark]

1. The Hustler and Color of Money are ancient movies. Most people have never heard of them, much less seen them or been influenced by them.

2. The last time I saw gambling in a pool hall was about 40 years ago.

3. As other threads have discussed, most people aren't interested in watching or playing pool simply because they think it's as boring as watching paint dry.

4. While we're talking about stereotyping... Watch any crime show or movie scene with a motorcycle gang, drug dealers, or other punks, and where are they hanging out? A pool hall.

 

[macguy]

1. The Hustler and Color of Money are ancient movies. Most people have never heard of them, much less seen them or been influenced by them.

2. The last time I saw gambling in a pool hall was about 40 years ago.

3. As other threads have discussed, most people aren't interested in watching or playing pool simply because they think it's as boring as watching paint dry.

4. While we're talking about stereotyping... Watch any crime show or movie scene with a motorcycle gang, drug dealers, or other punks, and where are they hanging out? A pool hall.

The old Beretta show with Robert Blake could not have done more to hurt pool if they were trying and this was every single week.
You are wrong about the Hustler and COM, they run constantly on cable and on demand. Thousands of new people see them probably every week. COM has been on on demand for like the last 6 months.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

I don't disagree with you all true but his generalization is the problem. If a guy goes in a pool room gets a table and him and his girl have a nice time playing for a few hours none on this has anything to do with him and never will. No one is coming up to him and trying to hustle him or his girl in his living room or condo where he may play.

These other things happen among pool players themselves. What do should we really care if one bum stiffs another bum. It has nothing to do with selling home tables or the establishment of a pool room or the industry it's self at all.

It could easily be argued that the outlaw reputation pool and pool players has, be it deserved or not, is just about the only part of the sport the general public has any interest in.
The Hustler and Color of Money were not exactly movies about someone having a religious revelation.

It is a bunch of bums complaining that they can't make a living playing pool and they can't get people pay to watch them. They do it to themselves and so what. I honestly don't think the future of pool has anything what so ever to do with the future of professional pool. Pool is an amateur sport enjoyed by millions, concentrate on that and you may see growth. I really don't care what a bunch of bums do to each other.

Image has little to do with no sponsors. Show them how they can make a buck and they would be on board. Heck, the biggest show on cable is about a bunch or repugnant red necks admitted bigots and they are happy to dump plenty of money their way.

Look at who follows NASCAR. They are the kind of people I would never rent an apartment to or probably hire for anything. A bunch of stupid beer guzzling loud mouth red neck bigots also and and I don't see sponsors steering away. Show a sponsor how he can make a buck on pool and they would not care what kind of people play it. I think we need to dispel that old popular excuse and chestnut.

Well looky here, I pretty much agree with you too.

ONB

 

[BeiberLvr]

Look at who follows NASCAR. They are the kind of people I would never rent an apartment to or probably hire for anything. A bunch of stupid beer guzzling loud mouth red neck bigots also and and I don't see sponsors steering away. Show a sponsor how he can make a buck on pool and they would not care what kind of people play it. I think we need to dispel that old popular excuse and chestnut.

What do fans have to do with sponsors? It's the racers that are being sponsored, and you better believe their image matters (to a certain point).

If Jeff Gordon had an interview after a race, and said, "Black people [insert derogatory statement here]," then Pepsi would drop him real fast.

 

[Island Drive]

What do fans have to do with sponsors? It's the racers that are being sponsored, and you better believe their image matters (to a certain point).

If Jeff Gordon had an interview after a race, and said, "Black people [insert derogatory statement here]," then Pepsi would drop him real fast.

Yep, Mizerak put ''foot in mouth'' during his Miller Light ''ya can't beat me'' commercial days. He demeaned women and lost his gig pretty quickly.

 

[leto1776]

I don't disagree with you all true but his generalization is the problem. If a guy goes in a pool room gets a table and him and his girl have a nice time playing for a few hours none on this has anything to do with him and never will. No one is coming up to him and trying to hustle him or his girl in his living room or condo where he may play.

These other things happen among pool players themselves. What do should we really care if one bum stiffs another bum. It has nothing to do with selling home tables or the establishment of a pool room or the industry it's self at all.

It could easily be argued that the outlaw reputation pool and pool players has, be it deserved or not, is just about the only part of the sport the general public has any interest in.
The Hustler and Color of Money were not exactly movies about someone having a religious revelation.

It is a bunch of bums complaining that they can't make a living playing pool and they can't get people pay to watch them. They do it to themselves and so what. I honestly don't think the future of pool has anything what so ever to do with the future of professional pool. Pool is an amateur sport enjoyed by millions, concentrate on that and you may see growth. I really don't care what a bunch of bums do to each other.

Image has little to do with no sponsors. Show them how they can make a buck and they would be on board. Heck, the biggest show on cable is about a bunch or repugnant red necks admitted bigots and they are happy to dump plenty of money their way.

Look at who follows NASCAR. They are the kind of people I would never rent an apartment to or probably hire for anything. A bunch of stupid beer guzzling loud mouth red neck bigots also and and I don't see sponsors steering away. Show a sponsor how he can make a buck on pool and they would not care what kind of people play it. I think we need to dispel that old popular excuse and chestnut.

You've obviously never been to a race. Mostly families. Dad, soccer mom and the kids. Lots of hotties,too. Yes, the rednecks are there, but they're the minority now.

 

[krupa]

Pool is an amateur sport enjoyed by millions, concentrate on that and you may see growth.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[kevpull]

Pool's Reputation

Yea, what is wrong with pool is all those damn pool players. Where does all this venom come from? What personal experience do you have with all these terrible people? What do you base these observations on?
I think you are buying into a stereo type as much as the rest of the public often does. Pool is just an activity that millions of people do every week in pool rooms, leagues, clubs, condos, and homes all over the country.

I am basing my comments on 40 years of being around the game and some of the people who play it. This is not venom that you percieve coming from me it is my personal experience. What I am saying is that the unsavory element of the game overshadows the good-as far as sponsorship goes. Pool will never be on par with golf and tennis because of its reputation. And my comments are not directed at pool players in general, most are very nice people but the game also attracts many that are not. Just recently I had a guy try to rip me off for the price of a cue shaft on this website and many many others have had similar experiences. These are the types of things that will ensure that pool never makes it off the bottom rung. THe OP stated: "It seems to me that if tennis and golf in this country can host (and pay out) multi-million dollar international events that pool should be able to as well." You need sponsors with big bucks to make that happen and pool just doesnt have it, and in my opinion, never will. Tales of major dumping scandals (i.e. Buddy Hall and Mike Lebron) and people getting assaulted because of pool bets. These things are not synonomous with tennis or golf but they are with pool. I love the game as much as anyone but experience has taught me that pool will never enjoy major sponsorships, but for anyone who thinks otherwise I admire your optimism, all I can say is "keep hope alive."

 

[macguy]

I am basing my comments on 40 years of being around the game and some of the people who play it. This is not venom that you percieve coming from me it is my personal experience. What I am saying is that the unsavory element of the game overshadows the good-as far as sponsorship goes. Pool will never be on par with golf and tennis because of its reputation. And my comments are not directed at pool players in general, most are very nice people but the game also attracts many that are not. Just recently I had a guy try to rip me off for the price of a cue shaft on this website and many many others have had similar experiences. These are the types of things that will ensure that pool never makes it off the bottom rung. THe OP stated: "It seems to me that if tennis and golf in this country can host (and pay out) multi-million dollar international events that pool should be able to as well." You need sponsors with big bucks to make that happen and pool just doesnt have it, and in my opinion, never will. Tales of major dumping scandals (i.e. Buddy Hall and Mike Lebron) and people getting assaulted because of pool bets. These things are not synonomous with tennis or golf but they are with pool. I love the game as much as anyone but experience has taught me that pool will never enjoy major sponsorships, but for anyone who thinks otherwise I admire your optimism, all I can say is "keep hope alive."

You are over estimating the importance of these incidents. You could not find one person in a million outside this tiny forum who has any knowledge of such happenings. And more so cares. Pool is not a spectator sport that anyone wants to watch.

This includes pool players themselves, they want to play, not watch and those people could care less what Buddy Hall and Mike Lebron are doing. That is if you could find one person in a million who could tell you who they are.

What you are saying is true as far as public perception of pool rooms. I was selling a pool room and the Century twenty one guy would not come the the pool room and talk I had to meet him at his office. Another time I had an guy who was going to do my books and in the course of my conversation he asked me if I was not afraid being in the pool room with all the drugs, guns and so on.

This is what they honestly believe and this is never going to change. We are like a grain of sand on a beach pool is so unimportant in the grand scheme of things. We don't even appear on a sponsors radar Pool is not a product driven sport.

Beyond maybe cues there is nothing to sell to a pool player. Any sponsors would have to be from the
outside and they don't exist. No matter who they are they only have so many advertising dollars and they are never putting money into something without a proven return. What would you tell them if they asked you who your demographic was that watches pool? It is kind of tough to have to say, "Well, we don't actually have one, no one watches pool".

 

[onepocketron]

For those who do not play pool, it is boring.

Sponsors other than those in the pool industry won't touch it for the most part due to the perception of gambling and the vision of smoke filled rooms full of seedy folk. The cutting up of the first tournament that was backed by Vegas gaming sure as hell hasn't been forgotten.

When you first start playing it is a very difficult sport to play. It's much more difficult that it looks and can become frustrating very quickly.

A lot of people have the same perception about the smoke filled rooms full of "sharks and hustlers" trying to screw folks out of their money.

These are just a few that come to mind.

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Ooh-Wee!

Well looky here, I pretty much agree with you too.

ONB

__________________________

Great post by the lot of you

-CP
www.facebook.com/raisingthehustler
@raisingthehustl
#raisingthehustler
#poolordie

 

[SeabrookMiglla]

I don't disagree with you all true but his generalization is the problem. If a guy goes in a pool room gets a table and him and his girl have a nice time playing for a few hours none on this has anything to do with him and never will. No one is coming up to him and trying to hustle him or his girl in his living room or condo where he may play.

These other things happen among pool players themselves. What do should we really care if one bum stiffs another bum. It has nothing to do with selling home tables or the establishment of a pool room or the industry it's self at all.

It could easily be argued that the outlaw reputation pool and pool players has, be it deserved or not, is just about the only part of the sport the general public has any interest in.
The Hustler and Color of Money were not exactly movies about someone having a religious revelation.

It is a bunch of bums complaining that they can't make a living playing pool and they can't get people pay to watch them. They do it to themselves and so what. I honestly don't think the future of pool has anything what so ever to do with the future of professional pool. Pool is an amateur sport enjoyed by millions, concentrate on that and you may see growth. I really don't care what a bunch of bums do to each other.

Image has little to do with no sponsors. Show them how they can make a buck and they would be on board. Heck, the biggest show on cable is about a bunch or repugnant red necks admitted bigots and they are happy to dump plenty of money their way.

Look at who follows NASCAR. They are the kind of people I would never rent an apartment to or probably hire for anything. A bunch of stupid beer guzzling loud mouth red neck bigots also and and I don't see sponsors steering away. Show a sponsor how he can make a buck on pool and they would not care what kind of people play it. I think we need to dispel that old popular excuse and chestnut.

i agree with this.

but i also think that pool needs to look more presentable to the public eye. golf is like pool in the sense that it is not a very exciting game to the average onlooker. but golf maintains a prestige to it that makes the game respectable to the public. everyone knows how hard golf is, and they respect the players. people have forgotten about competitive pool, and how difficult the game is.

people think this game is easy. they really do.