Why Look at the Object Ball Last?

[unknownpro]

Anybody claim that they look at the Object Ball last when they are shooting a jump shoot?

Not at it but toward it. You should only look at a straight in ball.

If you don't, why should you change to Object Ball last when you are shooting other shots?

Seems to me that if you concentrate on the Cue Ball you are far less likely to try to steer the shot or miscue.

That's why you don't look at either. You concentrate on the cue stick path, and then only steer the cue, which is good, not bad.

unknownpro

 

[Colin Colenso]

Simply put , you are aiming at a point so if you don't look at it how can you ever expect to hit it every time. That is all no more no less. To hit where you are aiming you have to be looking at what you want to hit at contact.
Hope this is a clear answer to a question based in technique fundamentals.
Nick Serdula

Problem is, the contact point is rarely the aiming point, at least it is not where the cue is aimed to very often.

I did an experiment on pre-aligning, looking only at the CB on execution here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=26809

It shows that if you are properly pre-aligned, that simply focusing on the CB can be more than adequate.

Colin

 

[bruin70]

friend of mine took some video of players and pros who thought they were looking at the ob last, and in fact found that they glance at the cb last.

i think most look at one and peripherally look at the other.

 

[AZE]

Once, Chuck Norris looked at the cueball and burned a hole right through it

You are such a F*$KEN LIER!... he did that WAY more than once.

 

[chefjeff]

Not at it but toward it. You should only look at a straight in ball.



That's why you don't look at either. You concentrate on the cue stick path, and then only steer the cue, which is good, not bad.

unknownpro

I am starting to buy into this method, too, because as my eyes and muscle control have aged, it became necessary to adopt an exact aiming technique. And my aiming technique requires me to point my cue stick at a target in order to align it properly. So, now I simply aim my cuestick at that target, then tweak my bridge, stance, et al, to be aligned exactly along that line. I recheck the target and then stroke the stick and make sure it is really along that line. So, the line is what I'm mentally into when I finally squeeze the trigger, not the cueball or object ball. I've almost forgotten about the balls by that time.

It's different and has some problems associated with it, but I'm beginning to see the value in mainly focusing on the line of stroke during final delivery.

Thanks, unknownpro,

Jeff Livingston

 

[CrossSideLarry]

hoppe was a great balkline and three-cushion player. he didn't play pool.

william

"Excuse me!!!" Did you say Hoppe didn't play pool? Allow me to finish his section on aiming (page 25...cont.), "both methods are satisfactory." Anyway, you will do this automatically and unconsciously. Speaking of wagering reminds me of a most humorous incident. Charlie Peterson and I were on one of our numerous tours years ago. We landed in Spokane for a straight pool exhibition. Before we started playing, an Indian Chief, in magnificent regalia, strode up to Peterson. Evidently, he thought Charlie was my manager.
"My son is a very good pool player," he informed Charlie in excellent English. "I would like to arrange a game between Mr. Hoppe and my son at the conclusion of his match... say a game to 250 points for a side bet of ten thousand dollars!" Charlie didn't know what to say. He knew I didn't bet on my game, neither did he. We both started to worry about how to evade the issue without appearing pikers.
We started our match without saying anything further to the Chief. After the completion of the exhibition, I slyly glanced over to where the Indians were sitting but they were gone. I happened to make a run of 246 that evening.
Which again proves, never bet a man at his own game.

Yea, so all I can say to you is, when is the last time you ran 246 balls. Better yet, when have you ever seen it done by a "non" pool player?

Cross Side Larry

"Learn from the best, and beat the rest"

 

[Scaramouche]

"Stroke the cue don't try to hit the cueball"
Cameron Smith

Now there is Wisdon.

It ain't my aim (however I do it) that screws things up, it is the quality of my stroke.

 

[Gerry]

Well, with the chance of sounding existential.....I approach the shot from behind and "feel" the angle needed. I glance back and forth from perceived angle to pocket through the object ball. When setting for the shot I don't focus on either ball, but the angle of my cue, and the pocket,...?...my real focus is on the feel/speed/sound of the hit.....if that makes any sense...

Gerry

 

[Cameron Smith]

Well, with the chance of sounding existential.....I approach the shot from behind and "feel" the angle needed. I glance back and forth from perceived angle to pocket through the object ball. When setting for the shot I don't focus on either ball, but the angle of my cue, and the pocket,...?...my real focus is on the feel/speed/sound of the hit.....if that makes any sense...

Gerry

It makes perfect sense. I think it is most important that a player simply focuses. And when they do they can be aware of everything you mentioned.

 

[poolcuemaster]

I look at ol whitey

I changed a few years ago to last looking at cueball to better control spin applied and have adjusted aim I guess also seems like I can see stroke straight through cue and this stopped most of my chicken winging. It helps a lot for anyone I think to focus on cueball when jacked up over ball or rail and when breaking hard so as not to get unwanted masse on cb, I cant say much about soft breaks like 1 hole or 14-1

 

[9 ball]

Listen guys if you can try and get your hands on a new dvd called the book of cool this is a three dvd set that shows all sorts of tricks from different sports and activities to learn, but on this dvd there is an extensive section on pool which is hosted by mike massey and thorsten hohmann.

There is a section on aiming where thorsten speaks about ALWAYS looking at the object ball last because that is the ball you are trying to hit, white ball has nothing to do with it appart from imparting spin on the shot, but get the dvd and you'll see what I mean.

 

[3kushn]

My 2 cents:
I agree that it probably doesn't matter but look at it this way. If your form is solid, you don't need to look at the CB last. With a straight stroke and solid fundamentals all around, your cueball will be struck exactly where you want. This will free you up to look at the target.
Another huge reason for always going back to basic fundamentals when problems arrise.

I don't shoot firearms but I would speculate that professional shooters arent looking at their sites when they pull the trigger but are looking at the target. (Is this the dart explanation Cameren referred to?)

 

[Cameron Smith]

I don't shoot firearms but I would speculate that professional shooters arent looking at their sites when they pull the trigger but are looking at the target. (Is this the dart explanation Cameren referred to?)

Basically. Frank Callan explains it that, dart players don't look at the dart when throwing it, they look at the spot they are aiming for. But as much as I do believe it is beneficial to look at the OB last, I actually think this is a poor arguement. Looking at the dart would be like looking at the cue, not the cue ball. It seems to forget a step. Furthermore the balls are being rolled not thrown so the comparason can not be made.

All of that aside I agree with you, good fundamentals means that you don't have to look at the cue ball. Once you have developed those fundamentals this discussion is something of a moot point.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I don't shoot firearms but I would speculate that professional shooters arent looking at their sites when they pull the trigger but are looking at the target. (Is this the dart explanation Cameren referred to?)

Basically. Frank Callan explains it that, dart players don't look at the dart when throwing it, they look at the spot they are aiming for. But as much as I do believe it is beneficial to look at the OB last, I actually think this is a poor arguement. Looking at the dart would be like looking at the cue, not the cue ball. It seems to forget a step. Furthermore the balls are being rolled not thrown so the comparason can not be made.

All of that aside I agree with you, good fundamentals means that you don't have to look at the cue ball. Once you have developed those fundamentals this discussion is something of a moot point.

 

[3kushn]

Basically. Frank Callan explains it that, dart players don't look at the dart when throwing it, they look at the spot they are aiming for. But as much as I do believe it is beneficial to look at the OB last, I actually think this is a poor arguement. Looking at the dart would be like looking at the cue, not the cue ball. It seems to forget a step. Furthermore the balls are being rolled not thrown so the comparason can not be made.

All of that aside I agree with you, good fundamentals means that you don't have to look at the cue ball. Once you have developed those fundamentals this discussion is something of a moot point.

So as I've been instructed -- After I line up the shot and get down to shoot, The ONLY thing on my mind is delivery of the stroke. I was told "Amatures try to control the balls - Professionals try to control their cue." I'll never forget this. I've not gotten there but am close. My swiping of the ball is almost gone unless I choose to swipe. Pretty cool mental shift. And it works.

 

[pooltchr]

So as I've been instructed -- After I line up the shot and get down to shoot, The ONLY thing on my mind is delivery of the stroke. I was told "Amatures try to control the balls - Professionals try to control their cue." I'll never forget this. I've not gotten there but am close. My swiping of the ball is almost gone unless I choose to swipe. Pretty cool mental shift. And it works.

You got some very good instruction there.
Steve

 

[jjinfla]

When shooting a gun you are always looking at the target area. Whether you are looking down the sights or not.

And speaking of swiping the cue ball was it ever decided if it is legal to swipe at the CB? Someone showed me that shot and I saw karen do it on TV about 6 years ago. You place the cue on the felt and raise it just barely touching the CB which just barely touched the OB which just barely touches the rail.

Jake

 

[3kushn]

When shooting a gun you are always looking at the target area. Whether you are looking down the sights or not.

And speaking of swiping the cue ball was it ever decided if it is legal to swipe at the CB? Someone showed me that shot and I saw karen do it on TV about 6 years ago. You place the cue on the felt and raise it just barely touching the CB which just barely touched the OB which just barely touches the rail.

Jake

What I'm calling a swipe would generally be considered bad form not something that's a push or double hit. It's bad form since the tip does not move in a straight line. It's like when you put top spin or side spin on ping pong ball, you come up over the top or move the paddle to the side as you hit the ball. Sometimes when I need extreme side spin my tip travels in an arc (level stroke center left or right). The butt of the cue moves toward or away from your body. Also on certain shots I've been shown that a rising tip will give me some desired results.

This type of stroke can't possibly be illegal but as I said are simply fundamentally flawed if just comparing it to a sound normal stroke. I've seen these strokes from people like Massey, Ceulemans, Japers, Sims, Gilbert, and Sang Lee, all very accomplished players.

 

[papercut]

I think I have a great analogy.

Imagine firing a rifle but with a mount on the front end and the butt resting on your shoulder. You've lined up the target perfectly and then close your eyes. If you can stay perfectly still while your finger pulls the trigger, you've hit your target. However, when pulling the trigger, your body sways ever so slightly, your knees bend ever so slightly, you'll miss the target. However, if your eyes were open looking at the target when this swaying action occurs, you can recalibrate and hit your target.

Hence, if you have absolutely an impeccable stroke, you might as well close your eyes when shooting (look at the blond, look at the cue ball, etc.). However, if upon the final stroke, your backhand swings ever so slightly, you'll need to be looking at your target (i.e. the line of aim, un-focused view of the shot picture, etc.), to correct for the ever so slight problem with your backhand.

This is why, I think, pros (including Colin) with beautiful strokes can look wherever while amateurs may need to look up at the shot picture upon stroking. I think looking at the OB last in isolation is no more valuable than closing your eyes (except, perhaps, on a straight-in shot)...looking at up at the shot picture is what matters. Based on this, the learning curve to develop a flawless stroke may be faster by looking at the CB as shots will be missed due to flaws in the stroke.

My 1.5 cents. I realize that I'm not really stating anything that hasn't been stated already, but hopefully I've compiled it in a different way.

Dart/gun analogy to pool is not directly comparable. You look at your target in darts and shooting because it is impossible to keep your body, arm, etc. perfectly still and in line and you need to adjust for this movement. When shooting a cannon, however, which doesn't rely on body location on firing, you don't look at your target (just light the fuse). In pool, in probably depends most on your fundamentals although I'd argue it's impossible to have an absolutely straight stroke, but the pros have developed it enough where correcting any swaying motion (via looking at the target) isn't necessary.

 

[lewdo26]

Not at it but toward it. You should only look at a straight in ball.



That's why you don't look at either. You concentrate on the cue stick path, and then only steer the cue, which is good, not bad.

unknownpro

By "steer" the cue, I imagine you mean "guide" it, as opposed to swipe it across? I have this problem with steering even though I try to focus only on the line and target. I don't know if it's alignment, or if it's my eyes playing tricks on me. I literally feel "forced" to steer my cue, even though I'm trying my best to stay on course.

It's gotten better since I decided to let the cue go completely, gripping it almost none at all. That way it HAS to go along the shotline I've decided upon during my standing address. Still, I sometimes forget all about it and grip it with ruinous consequences.