why pool fails

B

BigDaddyInc.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool never really captures an audience like the general public or non-poolplayers. There are a few reasons for this and i believe that the game comes off as a little phony. I mean you've got to let the audience in on what's going on and what it takes to become a professional pool player. Most people might see it on espn you've got two champions playing and usually making it look real easy. A lot of sports fans can relate to football, baseball, basketball, etc. The reason being that they have all been around that type of sport usually all through their school years. You might say "why is poker so much more popular"? Well once again most people may have home poker games a guys night out to the poker game at bob's house or whatever. They have an understanding of what it takes to be a professional athlete from playing the sports in high school or their backyard whatever. They see two pro's on espn and well there they are two champions so the viewer says well how did they get their? I mean there is no reference to how they became champions, what they went through, nothing. I say it's phony because sometimes they introduce the players as if they were wrestlers with the smoke and the lights girls in bikini's it's so fake. The only way pool will ever make it is if it starts being real it has to be itself and quit putting on this front to try to get attention. I love the game in it's purity and have the advantage as a viewer i have an understanding of whats going on because i've been around the game for many years. Now one way to get the people who don't play to understand whats going on there needs to be a pool movie about one player on his way to the top that way people can see everything that the player must go through. And as far as a pro tour that would work i hate to say it but they are completely wrong having such a strict "dress code" i mean these are poolplayers they've been in poolrooms all their life in jeans a t-shirt ballcap tennis shoes thats usually the most comfortable for alot of players. But they are on tv looking like lawyers and shi# thats another way they mislead the non-players. Sports fans don't give a crap about the fancy pants and shoes thats the least of their worries. Look at the pro poker players they are real! Doyle brunson in his cowboy hat i mean it looks like a home game thats just being televised! When you see pool on tv it just looks so darned uptight im not talking about the players i fully understand they must have their game-face on but the lawyer suits i mean do they have a court date afterwards maybe if they are on the ipt. Plus they'll sell out quicker than anything without thinking of nothing but the cash thats obvius the ipt! Now i can't blame them because they actually deserve alot of money. The audience needs to also understand that most of these players don't get paid unless they win! Or place in the money! You got these overpayed athlete's making millions whether they win or lose! That's a crock! The best baseball player in the world his talent can't match the talent of efren reyes. The audience needs to understand that but they need to understand how the pro poolplayer becomes a pro from the beginning so that they can appreciate the talent of the poolplayer. You have to make the audience feel like their a part of it or of course their not going to take an interest. Pool can do this only by being real now let's stop this nonsense. I heard danny basavich is making a pool movie and i think it's his story of how he became a champ i hope so pool needs this kind of story to give the audience an understanding of how a champion develops. You need a movie with road trips, drugs, alcohol, fights, that's right people pool has to be real that's what captures an audience. We have to qiut hiding the so called "bad image" of pool and put it in there face let them know what it is be truthful with them and let them make their own decision to have a big audience we must show them that we trust them and quit putting on the fancy front.
 
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Pool doesn't fail. The people that involve themselves with the marketing of pool have failed. Pool is a great game and it should be run by people that have their hearts in the right place.
 
BigDaddyInc. said:
Pool never really captures an audience like the general public or non-poolplayers. There are a few reasons for this and i believe that the game comes off as a little phony...
Click to expand...

Yeah, not like wrestling!:D
 
BigDaddyInc. said:
Pool never really captures an audience like the general public or non-poolplayers. There are a few reasons for this and i believe that the game comes off as a little phony. I mean you've got to let the audience in on what's going on and what it takes to become a professional pool player. Most people might see it on espn you've got two champions playing and usually making it look real easy. A lot of sports fans can relate to football, baseball, basketball, etc. The reason being that they have all been around that type of sport usually all through their school years. You might say "why is poker so much more popular"? Well once again most people may have home poker games a guys night out to the poker game at bob's house or whatever. They have an understanding of what it takes to be a professional athlete from playing the sports in high school or their backyard whatever. They see two pro's on espn and well there they are two champions so the viewer says well how did they get their? I mean there is no reference to how they became champions, what they went through, nothing. I say it's phony because sometimes they introduce the players as if they were wrestlers with the smoke and the lights girls in bikini's it's so fake. The only way pool will ever make it is if it starts being real it has to be itself and quit putting on this front to try to get attention. I love the game in it's purity and have the advantage as a viewer i have an understanding of whats going on because i've been around the game for many years. Now one way to get the people who don't play to understand whats going on there needs to be a pool movie about one player on his way to the top that way people can see everything that the player must go through. And as far as a pro tour that would work i hate to say it but they are completely wrong having such a strict "dress code" i mean these are poolplayers they've been in poolrooms all their life in jeans a t-shirt ballcap tennis shoes thats usually the most comfortable for alot of players. But they are on tv looking like lawyers and shi# thats another way they mislead the non-players. Sports fans don't give a crap about the fancy pants and shoes thats the least of their worries. Look at the pro poker players they are real! Doyle brunson in his cowboy hat i mean it looks like a home game thats just being televised! When you see pool on tv it just looks so darned uptight im not talking about the players i fully understand they must have their game-face on but the lawyer suits i mean do they have a court date afterwards maybe if they are on the ipt. Plus they'll sell out quicker than anything without thinking of nothing but the cash thats obvius the ipt! Now i can't blame them because they actually deserve alot of money. The audience needs to also understand that most of these players don't get paid unless they win! Or place in the money! You got these overpayed athlete's making millions whether they win or lose! That's a crock! The best baseball player in the world his talent can't match the talent of efren reyes. The audience needs to understand that but they need to understand how the pro poolplayer becomes a pro from the beginning so that they can appreciate the talent of the poolplayer. You have to make the audience feel like their a part of it or of course their not going to take an interest. Pool can do this only by being real now let's stop this nonsense. I heard danny basavich is making a pool movie and i think it's his story of how he became a champ i hope so pool needs this kind of story to give the audience an understanding of how a champion develops. You need a movie with road trips, drugs, alcohol, fights, that's right people pool has to be real that's what captures an audience. We have to qiut hiding the so called "bad image" of pool and put it in there face let them know what it is be truthful with them and let them make their own decision to have a big audience we must show them that we trust them and quit putting on the fancy front.
Click to expand...

Lets ignore the steriods scandle for the moment....(since your reference is to Baseball)

Barry Bonds puts thousands of bodies in the stands....Efren can't put that kind of body count in the stands...

Michael Jordan sold (and is still selling) many a basketball shoe, shirts, Jersey, "underwear" etc.....Efren / Earl / Mike / Nick can't match that...... (ok they can sell a few cues, but knowwhere near as many shoes as MJ has sold)

Bottom line is that pool players of any level do not deserve millions....unless they produce millions in some form...That is not and probably won't happen for a long time....
 
That's a big paragraph!

BigDaddyInc. said:
Pool never really captures an audience like the general public or non-poolplayers. There are a few reasons for this and i believe that the game comes off as a little phony. I mean you've got to let the audience in on what's going on and what it takes to become a professional pool player. Most people might see it on espn you've got two champions playing and usually making it look real easy. A lot of sports fans can relate to football, baseball, basketball, etc. The reason being that they have all been around that type of sport usually all through their school years. You might say "why is poker so much more popular"? Well once again most people may have home poker games a guys night out to the poker game at bob's house or whatever. They have an understanding of what it takes to be a professional athlete from playing the sports in high school or their backyard whatever. They see two pro's on espn and well there they are two champions so the viewer says well how did they get their? I mean there is no reference to how they became champions, what they went through, nothing. I say it's phony because sometimes they introduce the players as if they were wrestlers with the smoke and the lights girls in bikini's it's so fake. The only way pool will ever make it is if it starts being real it has to be itself and quit putting on this front to try to get attention. I love the game in it's purity and have the advantage as a viewer i have an understanding of whats going on because i've been around the game for many years. Now one way to get the people who don't play to understand whats going on there needs to be a pool movie about one player on his way to the top that way people can see everything that the player must go through. And as far as a pro tour that would work i hate to say it but they are completely wrong having such a strict "dress code" i mean these are poolplayers they've been in poolrooms all their life in jeans a t-shirt ballcap tennis shoes thats usually the most comfortable for alot of players. But they are on tv looking like lawyers and shi# thats another way they mislead the non-players. Sports fans don't give a crap about the fancy pants and shoes thats the least of their worries. Look at the pro poker players they are real! Doyle brunson in his cowboy hat i mean it looks like a home game thats just being televised! When you see pool on tv it just looks so darned uptight im not talking about the players i fully understand they must have their game-face on but the lawyer suits i mean do they have a court date afterwards maybe if they are on the ipt. Plus they'll sell out quicker than anything without thinking of nothing but the cash thats obvius the ipt! Now i can't blame them because they actually deserve alot of money. The audience needs to also understand that most of these players don't get paid unless they win! Or place in the money! You got these overpayed athlete's making millions whether they win or lose! That's a crock! The best baseball player in the world his talent can't match the talent of efren reyes. The audience needs to understand that but they need to understand how the pro poolplayer becomes a pro from the beginning so that they can appreciate the talent of the poolplayer. You have to make the audience feel like their a part of it or of course their not going to take an interest. Pool can do this only by being real now let's stop this nonsense. I heard danny basavich is making a pool movie and i think it's his story of how he became a champ i hope so pool needs this kind of story to give the audience an understanding of how a champion develops. You need a movie with road trips, drugs, alcohol, fights, that's right people pool has to be real that's what captures an audience. We have to qiut hiding the so called "bad image" of pool and put it in there face let them know what it is be truthful with them and let them make their own decision to have a big audience we must show them that we trust them and quit putting on the fancy front.
Click to expand...

I lost my place about half way through, got tired looking for it and posted this.

Good topic though.
 
BigDaddyInc. said:
Pool never really captures an audience like the general public or non-poolplayers. There are a few reasons for this and i believe that the game comes off as a little phony.

I mean you've got to let the audience in on what's going on and what it takes to become a professional pool player. Most people might see it on espn you've got two champions playing and usually making it look real easy.

A lot of sports fans can relate to football, baseball, basketball, etc. The reason being that they have all been around that type of sport usually all through their school years.

You might say "why is poker so much more popular"? Well once again most people may have home poker games a guys night out to the poker game at bob's house or whatever. They have an understanding of what it takes to be a professional athlete from playing the sports in high school or their backyard whatever. They see two pro's on espn and well there they are two champions so the viewer says well how did they get their?

I mean there is no reference to how they became champions, what they went through, nothing. I say it's phony because sometimes they introduce the players as if they were wrestlers with the smoke and the lights girls in bikini's it's so fake.

The only way pool will ever make it is if it starts being real it has to be itself and quit putting on this front to try to get attention. I love the game in it's purity and have the advantage as a viewer i have an understanding of whats going on because i've been around the game for many years.

Now one way to get the people who don't play to understand whats going on there needs to be a pool movie about one player on his way to the top that way people can see everything that the player must go through.

And as far as a pro tour that would work i hate to say it but they are completely wrong having such a strict "dress code" i mean these are poolplayers they've been in poolrooms all their life in jeans a t-shirt ballcap tennis shoes thats usually the most comfortable for alot of players. But they are on tv looking like lawyers and shi# thats another way they mislead the non-players.

Sports fans don't give a crap about the fancy pants and shoes thats the least of their worries. Look at the pro poker players they are real! Doyle brunson in his cowboy hat i mean it looks like a home game thats just being televised!

When you see pool on tv it just looks so darned uptight im not talking about the players i fully understand they must have their game-face on but the lawyer suits i mean do they have a court date afterwards maybe if they are on the ipt. Plus they'll sell out quicker than anything without thinking of nothing but the cash thats obvius the ipt! Now i can't blame them because they actually deserve alot of money.

The audience needs to also understand that most of these players don't get paid unless they win! Or place in the money! You got these overpayed athlete's making millions whether they win or lose! That's a crock! The best baseball player in the world his talent can't match the talent of efren reyes.

The audience needs to understand that but they need to understand how the pro poolplayer becomes a pro from the beginning so that they can appreciate the talent of the poolplayer. You have to make the audience feel like their a part of it or of course their not going to take an interest.

Pool can do this only by being real now let's stop this nonsense. I heard danny basavich is making a pool movie and i think it's his story of how he became a champ i hope so pool needs this kind of story to give the audience an understanding of how a champion develops.

You need a movie with road trips, drugs, alcohol, fights, that's right people pool has to be real that's what captures an audience. We have to qiut hiding the so called "bad image" of pool and put it in there face let them know what it is be truthful with them and let them make their own decision to have a big audience we must show them that we trust them and quit putting on the fancy front.
Click to expand...

For those going blind trying to read this.:D
 
yes very sorry about the paragraph thing not a big english major. I speak the english just don't jot it down very well. I shall work on that in the future.
 
:-) You mean like most people understand writing structure because they were exposed to it as children?

The sentiment is appreciated if a little hard to read. Structure and grammar often take a back seat to passion.

I agree that pool should be shown with it's characters intact. My wife said the exact same thing about poker and pool. She finds pool on TV to be absolutely the most boring and undramatic thing a person could possibly waste time on. She was enthralled with poker a few years ago because the people sitting at the table looked interesting and she watched to find more about them. So did I.

I'd rather watch a lousy choppy video feed from an action spot than watch pool on ESPN.
 
BigDaddyInc. said:
And as far as a pro tour that would work i hate to say it but they are completely wrong having such a strict "dress code" i mean these are poolplayers they've been in poolrooms all their life in jeans a t-shirt ballcap tennis shoes thats usually the most comfortable for alot of players. But they are on tv looking like lawyers and shi# thats another way they mislead the non-players.
Click to expand...


OK all you salivating neanderthals. How many of you want to watch Jeanette Lee and the rest of the crew dressed in track pants and sweat shirts?:D

A slob is a two legged jackass, having neither pride of ancestry nor hope of progeny, and dresses accordingly.
 
Blackjack said:
Pool doesn't fail. The people that involve themselves with the marketing of pool have failed. Pool is a great game and it should be run by people that have their hearts in the right place.
Click to expand...

This is exactly right. Most of the people I have talked to that think pool is a boring thing to watch, have never watched professional pool, or they have watched a bad match. I have known many non-players who get into watching the game on tv and watch it whenever they come across it on the sports network. Often times the people who have watch the game and aren't interested in watching it again, aren't interested in sports in general.

There is such a shock and awe factor when people watch any billiards game. They are often mesmerized by what they see on camera. Pro players do things on the table that many people see as absolutely impossible.

If you want people to come to an event you have to advertise it sufficiently in order to get people to come. Online advertising at pool website just wont cut it. If you want to people to watch pool on tv, you have to advertise that too. I don't see that happening very often.
 
I equate pool and bowling. They are probaly the two games that are most participated in in America. I mean, there's so many people out there DOING it, that who wants to spend time/money to watch it. Look at bowling. The WPBA couldn't even keep sponsors and ceased tournament operations. Even the mens (PBA) don't exactly light up the polls. I mean, it's not too exciting to pay to watch people shoot 235 games when you can go down to any local bowling house on league night and see plenty of them for free. It's the same with pool. On any given night, I can see some amazingly good pool shot in most leagues and even better pool shot at a local tournament, when one is near my town. I don't have to pay to see this. There must be literally thousands of pool shooters in this country that can keep up with the pros on any given night. You just don't see them compete, for whatever reason I don't know. Too much trouble and money to qualify, I guess. You may argue that poker is VERY popular, and is on television, and does well with the spectator crowd. The difference here is, when people want to participate in this game, they're gonna hafta "un-ass" some big money. Just my $.02.

Maniac
 
There are several reasons why pool doesnt catch on with the general public.

1- the money, how much does a pro actually make during a year when playing tournaments? before the IPT came along? And still since they may never get payed lol.

2- theres no trash talking like basketball or football. People dont understand that when playing in a tournament, your suppose to give your opponent the courtesy of being quiet and not interupting them during thier shot. Unless your Earl lol.

3- people generalize just like with bowling that the drunker you are the better you play PFFFFFTTTTTTTTTT what a crock. They also think wow i can make balls and stuff on a table, so i can beat a pro. people do this with bowling too,,,, wow, i can bowl a 250 on my monday nite beer league..

I bowled on the PBA regional tour for 2 yrs and being able to bowl a 250game isnt that easy, Especially when your window for error is 1 maybe 2inches @ 50ft down the lane, plus being able to keep the same ball speed the whole game too, since that also effects how early or late the ball hooks.

Plus, how many average people can name pro pool players? But i am sure almost any person 20-40yrs old can name atleast 5 pro baseball, football and basketball players.

Also,, look at the time slots that is given to pool.. most of the time its mid afternoon when the general public is working, or its late at nite when they are sleeping.
 
BigDaddyInc. said:
Yadah yadah yadah The sky is falling.
Click to expand...

Ok first off I want combat pay just for reading that thing all the way through.

Second you have many misconceptions and things that I believe to be wrong.

1) you claim people like Baseball,football,& Basketball better because they played them in High School. Each year in BD they post the results of a national survey, Pool and Bowling are always 1 and 2 and always by a long shot.

2) People like those *TEAM* sports because they grow up with fathers and uncles and friends who are fans of the *teams* not the people playing. A Yankee Fan hated Johnny Damon 2 years ago and now they cheer for him, it's about the uniform and tradition. (Some of us still hate him BTW)

3) People don't not like Pool players cause they are dressed up, they don't like them because they are not likable. Have you ever met Efren, Archer, Bustamonte, or Strickland?? They are not bad people but they aren't *Charismatic* they lack personality and they don't seem to willing to change that.

4) The players who do have the gift all need to be on HBO to showcase it. They do need to market the dark side of the game on that I think we can all agree.

5) I was in Vegas for APA and BCA events and each time there was a pro event that coincides with the amateur event. Each day I went to watch great pro matches and each day I could sit anywhere I wanted as hundreds (probably thousands) of pool players walked by not even giving a $hit. People would rather play the game then watch.

6) Poker makes huge ratings because of many things.

a) Great marketing push.
b) Fake money, when someone pushes in 2 million in chips it seems exciting when in reality they are just points to keep score with.
c) They showcase the players and the seedy side of the game, the get you into the back stories of these people, and the dark side.
d) It hit big because of internet gambling and the fact that a nobody from an online site can and has won the whole thing.

7) Pool players as a whole wreck most good things by nature. Maybe you can blame the lack of cash in the prize funds. Too many dumps and deals are made when the prize fund gets high enough. Too many pain in the asses at tournaments breaking the TD's balls and *****ing about conditions and racks and equipment. Players not supporting tours and pool rooms and sponsors. Players not willing to put on a show for the fans, they want to win or lose and get out of town, unless of course they can hook a fish and rob them.

8) Marketing and broadcasting. They just have not made pool exciting on TV, the IPT had a shot, but let's face it Mike Sigel is pompous and can no longer back it up, Matt Vaskershian is clueless and KT should just sign some checks, here is the future of the sport and they can't say the best player in the worlds name (Efrem) I mean WTF?!?!?!? Even if people wanted to tune in they'd fall asleep before it's 3-1.

Jim <---I have spoken (all IMO of course)
 
JimBo said:
Ok first off I want combat pay just for reading that thing all the way through.

Second you have many misconceptions and things that I believe to be wrong.

1) you claim people like Baseball,football,& Basketball better because they played them in High School. Each year in BD they post the results of a national survey, Pool and Bowling are always 1 and 2 and always by a long shot.

2) People like those *TEAM* sports because they grow up with fathers and uncles and friends who are fans of the *teams* not the people playing. A Yankee Fan hated Johnny Damon 2 years ago and now they cheer for him, it's about the uniform and tradition. (Some of us still hate him BTW)

3) People don't not like Pool players cause they are dressed up, they don't like them because they are not likable. Have you ever met Efren, Archer, Bustamonte, or Strickland?? They are not bad people but they aren't *Charismatic* they lack personality and they don't seem to willing to change that.

4) The players who do have the gift all need to be on HBO to showcase it. They do need to market the dark side of the game on that I think we can all agree.

5) I was in Vegas for APA and BCA events and each time there was a pro event that coincides with the amateur event. Each day I went to watch great pro matches and each day I could sit anywhere I wanted as hundreds (probably thousands) of pool players walked by not even giving a $hit. People would rather play the game then watch.

6) Poker makes huge ratings because of many things.

a) Great marketing push.
b) Fake money, when someone pushes in 2 million in chips it seems exciting when in reality they are just points to keep score with.
c) They showcase the players and the seedy side of the game, the get you into the back stories of these people, and the dark side.
d) It hit big because of internet gambling and the fact that a nobody from an online site can and has won the whole thing.

7) Pool players as a whole wreck most good things by nature. Maybe you can blame the lack of cash in the prize funds. Too many dumps and deals are made when the prize fund gets high enough. Too many pain in the asses at tournaments breaking the TD's balls and *****ing about conditions and racks and equipment. Players not supporting tours and pool rooms and sponsors. Players not willing to put on a show for the fans, they want to win or lose and get out of town, unless of course they can hook a fish and rob them.

8) Marketing and broadcasting. They just have not made pool exciting on TV, the IPT had a shot, but let's face it Mike Sigel is pompous and can no longer back it up, Matt Vaskershian is clueless and KT should just sign some checks, here is the future of the sport and they can't say the best player in the worlds name (Efrem) I mean WTF?!?!?!? Even if people wanted to tune in they'd fall asleep before it's 3-1.

Jim <---I have spoken (all IMO of course)
Click to expand...

TAP, TAP, TAP! I agree completely!! Well said, excellent post!!!

Lisa
 
Reality TV

I think we need someone to produce a made for cable TV reality TV show. Can you imagine the charachters and personalities that we have in a typical pool room. That would put pool on the map.
 
pool

Bottom line is that pool players of any level do not deserve millions....unless they produce millions in some form...That is not and probably won't happen for a long time....
__________________
Name: Ken
Location: Glendale, AZ


This is as good as I have seen it explained. Butterflycues
 
Blackjack said:
Pool doesn't fail. The people that involve themselves with the marketing of pool have failed. Pool is a great game and it should be run by people that have their hearts in the right place.
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people with their "hearts in the right places" is a big problem. it's why poolrooms close,,,because they're run by people who are too close to the game,,,ie, people with no business sense. i don't know but if i were a possible big time sponsor, i'd think negotiating across the table from c.williams as a big joke.

what's needed is someone who can exploit pool's business future, if there is one,,,,and that's a big if. you need a true blue businessman who looks at the bottom line.
 
The number one reason pool "fails", watching pool is B O R I N G.

I personally can watch great pool for hours...but few can as by poor attendance to most tournaments. I play BCA and of the players in my league there might be 5 that would go to watch the pro's locally or at a national tournament, when we play in Vegas they wouldn't watch the pro's even if it were free and I have asked many league players about watching pool...always the same answer " I love playing and hate watching"...boring.

Pool is very cerebral, figuring patterns,when to duck,working the cueball, how will I play this shot....

If you are not into the nuances of the game, pool is boring to watch.

To the general public pool appears to be a very simple game and requires no real talent.. it's just rolling the balls around on a table and a bunch of bums poorly dressed in smoke filled rooms gambling their nickels and dimes away.
 
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Right, and as soon as Earl acts like a character everybody jumps all over him.

Can't have it both ways guys.

But you are right, pool is boring unless you are playing the game.

Today is day 2 of the WPBA tournament. Anybody really care?
 
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