why the big diff between 8 ball vs 9 ?

[justadub]

I think it's mainly because in 8-ball, it's mainly a short distance type of game (not to say you don't need to know how to shoot long shots when you need to) but if you play for the middle of the set of your balls in terms of placement on the table, usually you can play with some finesse/stun shots and you'll be set for the next shot. And like someone said, unlike in rotational based games (e.g. 10-ball/9-ball) you don't have to play position for a single ball. And it's not always that your balls are at the same half of the table so you need to use some pace/spins to get position up and down the table.

My friend is awesome at 8-ball but isn't that great in 9 or 10 ball because most of the times, I see him fall short because he hits them too soft.

This is very true. At least for me, it is. We all can make longer shots, but they are more difficult than shorter shots, and the more you have to shoot them, the more chances you have for a miss, or a poor safety.

My best buddy has been working with me for some time now to get better at 2 and 3 rail "leaves", for better position. He's been trying to teach me this for 8-ball, because that's what we play mostly. I can see how the multi-rail leaves would be of eve greater assistance for 9-ball.

When I'm referring to my 9-ball play, I'm referring to regular Texas Express (except in our club you have to call the 9, which results in plenty of "calling" in case you get a lucky combination, or carom - in our game you keep shooting if you make your OB, even if you are calling the 9) so I'm not worried about ball-count, I'm concerned with winning the game.

 

[daphish1]

i just got thru looking at my division stats after 13 weeks of a 16 week session. i play apa dj among other leagues. i find it odd that a majority of people play one game better than the other, sometimes by a wide margin. i think our team is fairly consistent in both games altho we have some players that play one game a lot better than the other also. my captain and i are very consistent in both. i am in 1st place in top gun in both games, my captain is in 3rd in both. the guy that is in 2nd behind me in 9 ball is 6th in 8 ball. we have a player on our team that is a 3 in 9 ball with a 71% win record and he is a 2 in 8 ball with a 37% win record . i just dont understand that.

other teams other teams in my division have a pretty large variance in winning % between the 2 games. the 2nd place team in 9 ball is last in 8. the last place team in 9 is 4th in 8 ball.

do some play 8 better bacause they have more options at balls to make until they get to their last couple balls do some play 9 ball better because the table is more open with fewer balls on the table , altho you do have to shoot at the lowest ball ?

whats your opinion on this ?

If you're playing on bar boxes, 8 ball is a harder game (more clusters then on a big table) than 9 ball (less travel between shots). On a 9' table its the opposite, 8 ball is easier then 9 ball, IMO.

It's really hard to gauge by winning percentage because you aren't always playing the same opponents. So in APA 9 ball you can shoot really well but be playing a higher skill level player who's running out and playing lock up safes and still lose.

 

[pooltchr]

The two games require very different mindsets, strategies, and skill sets. 8 ball requires you to evaluate the layout of the table and decide how to play it. 9 ball, the table dictates how to run the rack.
I coach my low ranked players in 8 ball to move their balls closer to the pockets. That strategy would be a disaster in 9 ball.
8 ball puts a lot more balls on the table, which means you have to maneuver through a more difficult maize. 9 ball usually gives you a more wide open table to maneuver. Cue ball control becomes more critical in 8 ball.
8 ball gives you more places to hide, if you need to play defense, but also gives the other player more possible targets to shoot at.

Generally, players will be better at the game they play the most. Personally, I am a more analytical player rather than a wide open shooter. Overall, my style of play is more suited to 8 ball, and that is where I tend to do better.

Steve

 

[Aaron_S]

I would guess that the handicapping methods have a lot to do with it. I play in a TAP league, which gives gives games on the wire to the lower ranked player. This type of handicapping system, while simple to administer and thus very common, is just not fair in lopsided matchups (7 vs 4, etc.). It's about like me (not a card player at all) sitting down with a pro poker player, and the only advantage I get is a larger stack of chips. The pro is gonna bust me every time, the larger chip stack just prolongs my agony (perhaps making me feel like I got my money's worth???). A fair handicap would be one that helps me out in every single hand, or every single rack in the case of a pool match. So it just stands to reason that lower ranked players will do better under more fair handicapping systems, regardless of what game is being played.

Another thing is that in 9-ball (traditional rules, anyway) you only have to pocket one ball to win, which greatly increases the odds of a lower ranked player throwing an upset.

Aaron

 

[brophog]

They really don't play better at 9 ball, just APA 9 ball where the points scoring system is in place.

That was my assumption, as well.

 

[Jaden]

different focuses...

i just got thru looking at my division stats after 13 weeks of a 16 week session. i play apa dj among other leagues. i find it odd that a majority of people play one game better than the other, sometimes by a wide margin. i think our team is fairly consistent in both games altho we have some players that play one game a lot better than the other also. my captain and i are very consistent in both. i am in 1st place in top gun in both games, my captain is in 3rd in both. the guy that is in 2nd behind me in 9 ball is 6th in 8 ball. we have a player on our team that is a 3 in 9 ball with a 71% win record and he is a 2 in 8 ball with a 37% win record . i just dont understand that.

other teams other teams in my division have a pretty large variance in winning % between the 2 games. the 2nd place team in 9 ball is last in 8. the last place team in 9 is 4th in 8 ball.

do some play 8 better bacause they have more options at balls to make until they get to their last couple balls do some play 9 ball better because the table is more open with fewer balls on the table , altho you do have to shoot at the lowest ball ?

whats your opinion on this ?

In lesser players you'll see a bigger discrepancy...

In 8ball, ball pocketing skills plays a much bigger role in general because if you don't know what kind of shape you're going to get, you have multiple choices to select from.

In 9ball, you have to be able to control whitey to play at a higher level, the focus is more on shot selection and CB control.

The higher the capability of a person, usually you'll see a higher correlation of skill at both games, but it's possible to play either game with a stronger skill set that benefits one over the other.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

you;re looking at it from the perspective of HIGH caliber play, not average...

The two games require very different mindsets, strategies, and skill sets. 8 ball requires you to evaluate the layout of the table and decide how to play it. 9 ball, the table dictates how to run the rack.
I coach my low ranked players in 8 ball to move their balls closer to the pockets. That strategy would be a disaster in 9 ball.
8 ball puts a lot more balls on the table, which means you have to maneuver through a more difficult maize. 9 ball usually gives you a more wide open table to maneuver. Cue ball control becomes more critical in 8 ball.
8 ball gives you more places to hide, if you need to play defense, but also gives the other player more possible targets to shoot at.

Generally, players will be better at the game they play the most. Personally, I am a more analytical player rather than a wide open shooter. Overall, my style of play is more suited to 8 ball, and that is where I tend to do better.

Steve

I think for average play, you've got it backwards...

Yes to play HIGH level 8ball you have to be able to break out clusters, pick the right patterns etc.. but that doesn't really relate to what the op's talking about.

For average league play, you'll probably find the opposite being true. The shot makers will have higher percentages at 8ball and the position players, higher percentages at 9ball.

With 8ball, if your position play is lacking for the majority of the game, you have more selections available, it's also harder for slightly better players to play safe because of all the options for the opponent.

With nineball, a shotmaker without ANY ability to control whitey isn't going to have a chance in hell, because they HAVE to play for a specific ball. position play becomes a LOT more critical.

Jaden

But the idea that the two games require different skill sets and people with different skillsets will excel at one over the other is a correct statement.

 

[donuteric]

Like some have pointed out, the size of table plays a tremendous role in it. If memory serves me right, my local APA's Best of the Best tournament is always won by higher rank players when played on 9-footers, and is dominated by lower rank players when played on bar boxes.

9-ball layout is mostly easier to visualize than 8-ball. With 8-ball, most need to slow down the pace a bit and actually take time to study the table. If open layout is presented in both games, 8-ball is easier, simply because you're allowed with more margins of errors in the beginning of the game. For complicated layout, I think 8-ball is harder since safety option isn't available normally.

This is one of my favorite 8-ball game between Reyes and Busty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsCLcuLXlEM&feature=related

 

[cigardave]

Regardless of the table size, almost ANYBODY who shoots pool can make 4 or 5 balls in a row playing 8-ball.

Not so in 9-ball.

The same person may make 3 balls in a row... but will most likely never run 5 balls in a row.

I agree with others... it's most likely the scoring system that gives the impression that certain intermediate players are better at 9-ball than they are at 8-ball.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

Since we are talking about APA 9ball it should be mentioned that it isn't really *9ball*. It is more of a hybrid between straight pool and 9ball. For example, in APA 9ball I run 1-8 and miss on the 9. My opponent hits in the 9. The score at this point is 8-2 my lead. In traditional 9ball rules the score would be 0-1. So even though the rules are largly the same the scoring makes the strategy very different.

Somebody said that safety play in 9ball vs 8ball is easier. I disagree with that. 8ball can either be really easy or really hard depending on how many balls your opponent has on the table. Also defensive shot include moving balls closer to the pocket. 9ball defense seem to have a lot of stop shots or sending the OB to the other end of the table both of which aren't applied to 8ball very often. I wouldn't say one is easier than the other, they are just different.

 

[bazkook]

The problem with APA 9-ball starts with omitting the push-out rule. If the SL1 (or any SL) gets a break and leaves you sewn up, you are basically giving them a point right off. (provided you miss your kick, evidently in my neck of the woods, jumping (and the masse) is forbidden in most places because it is considered 'cheating'.....since only 3 players in the entire league can do it legally, and I dont understand it because it goes against the nationalized APA rules, but that is another matter). And it goes the same for the higher ranked shooters, too. But it is alot easier for the lower skilled players to win at APA 9-ball than APA 8-ball.

You can keep SL1's and SL2's to a low number if you feel like making a small run and playing safe over and over, but that tends to get the APA crowd in an uproar because alot of them dont understand that offense isnt the only way to go.

I wish the push-out rule would be instituted in APA. When I asked my local league operator why the push-out isn't in APA, he says that many feel it gives the better players a little more edge, which is BS IMO. Anybody can be taught how to make a good push out. It sure beats giving BIH to a lower ranked player simply because they might break like crap and get lucky to hook a higher ranked player.
As far as jumping is concerned, I have only successfully jumped and hit my object ball once or twice on a barbox during league play. Since you are only allowed to jump with your regular playing cue, the jump will likely not be as easy as if you were using a cue with a harder tip like a break cue. I will masse when it is the only option as I would much rather kick at a ball. Snooker helped my kicking game so much. Other league players are always saying that kick at balls on the barbox really well but IMO the kicks aren't miraculous;you just have to know how to perform the shot.
I agree that some APA members look down upon defense. However, they don't understand that if a higher ranked player is giving up a lot of points in 9 ball, they can't afford to give ANYTHING to a player who has to make many less points. I was playing a S/L 1 or 2 once and she actually started complaining when I shot defense on her or ran out a rack and asked me to leave her a shot occasionally. I told her no way in hell because she is a banger and has been known to luck several balls in a row and hook her opponent when she misses.

 

[pooltchr]

The league I play in has taken care of that argument. A lower ranked player, if they are hooked after the break, can ask for a "push time out", which does not count against their regular allowed time-out count.

Steve

 

[Cory in DC]

I think a big part of it is the break. I'm a decent player but a mediocre at best breaker. Playing people around my speed or better, that costs me a lot more games in 9-ball than in 8-ball.

I also agree that 8-ball has more strategic thinking, more need for moving in tight spaces, and less need for opening up the stroke (these are true on average; both games require some of both).

Cory

 

[Three.Two.N.D.]

Might be related to strategy. I was told in 8 ball if you cant run out all your balls including the 8 you shouldnt try to make the first ball. Coming from a 9 ball mentality that was a new concept for me.

 

[Winston846]

The difference between 8 ball and 9-ball.

9-ball is a rotation game in which you must pocket the balls in numerical order.

8-ball is a pattern game where you do not have to shoot the balls in any specific order, but instead try to map out the optimal sequence in which to shoot them.

IMHO, 9-ball is the easier of the 2 games strategically because no matter what, you know the ball that you must shoot next and play position for accordingly, and if you're playing a safety, you only have to hide 1 ball.

In 8-ball you have more options and therefore more opportunities to get in trouble. Also, mapping a pattern isn't as easy as it sounds. I see a lot of rotation game players that do not understand the concept of a pattern. Safety play is also more difficult, especially in the early part of the game as your opponent has several balls to shoot at, so it is more difficult to leave him/her without a shot.

 

[Vahony]

9-ball is a rotation game in which you must pocket the balls in numerical order.

8-ball is a pattern game where you do not have to shoot the balls in any specific order, but instead try to map out the optimal sequence in which to shoot them.

IMHO, 9-ball is the easier of the 2 games strategically because no matter what, you know the ball that you must shoot next and play position for accordingly, and if you're playing a safety, you only have to hide 1 ball.

In 8-ball you have more options and therefore more opportunities to get in trouble. Also, mapping a pattern isn't as easy as it sounds. I see a lot of rotation game players that do not understand the concept of a pattern. Safety play is also more difficult, especially in the early part of the game as your opponent has several balls to shoot at, so it is more difficult to leave him/her without a shot.

I've been telling my wife this for 4 years but she still thinks 9-ball is the harder game. My problem with 9-ball is that I shoot too soft sometimes. This costs me points since if I miss my opponent has an easy shot. Recently I've imporved upon this by shooting a little harder on the shots that I feel I might miss. My 9-ball game has improved. The last 10 matches I'm 9-1 and moved up to an APA 5. Improvement is the name of the game for me. If I feel I'm not getting better then I'll take some time off.

 

[lorider]

I've been telling my wife this for 4 years but she still thinks 9-ball is the harder game. My problem with 9-ball is that I shoot too soft sometimes. This costs me points since if I miss my opponent has an easy shot. Recently I've imporved upon this by shooting a little harder on the shots that I feel I might miss. My 9-ball game has improved. The last 10 matches I'm 9-1 and moved up to an APA 5. Improvement is the name of the game for me. If I feel I'm not getting better then I'll take some time off.

good luck to you on your continued improvement. i hope you dont go thru what i did when i was raised to a 5. i lost my next 10 matches in a row before i was brought back to a 4. i dont know about your situation but im the most experienced player on my team so im the one selected to play the best on the opposing team . im always playing a s/l 6 or higher and win 56.8% of the time. when i was a 5 i just couldnt get the extra points i needed to beat the higher level players. in the 10 matches i lost i scored enough points to win had i been a 4. guess you could say im a very strong 4 but a week 5. i had one of those real good nights last week beating an 8 pretty bad .i got 17 to his 3. guess i will be moving back up to a 5 after that. i know he wasnt sandbagging because he is my teamate in another division. i just had one of those nights where i couldt miss leaving him sitting in his chair when he wasnt racking lol.

 

[Schon9ball'r]

There you go. 8 ball is a better game for strategic-minded players; 9 ball is better for pure shooters. I know that I place a lot better in 8 ball tournaments on average than I do in 9 ball tourneys.

Yep. I play 8 ball pretty well but I am much better at 9 ball. It's definitely due to the way I move the rock around the table.

 

[bmsclayton]

8 ball or 10 ball

I play about a full skill level 8 ball over 9 ball I can't mentally fade the luck factor in 9 ball. I also play at the level where I can run 5-7 balls and usually do most of the work then lose the game. In 8 ball at my level my opponent still has to run his out and or if he runs 5-7 I have a pretty good safty game. If I have to play rotation to gamble I play ten ball, less run outs, less on the break, more safty opps for me. I love one hole. wish I could run balls better.

 

[fried rice]

I play about a full skill level 8 ball over 9 ball I can't mentally fade the luck factor in 9 ball.



In my opinion, unless you are at a very low skill level there is more luck in 8 ball than in 9 ball. It is very common to see a

decent player get totally hooked on the ball that they were playing position on, but still have a decent shot on a totally

different ball. I would say that this situation occurs substantially more often than a person slops a 9 ball in. 9 ball

makes the player more accountable for their position errors. Furthermore its pretty easy to take most of the luck factor out of 9

ball by not counting early or unintentional 9 balls. There are other reasons that I believe that there is more luck in 8 ball but its

pretty complicated to explain it in detail, but it stems from the fact that you are shooting at different balls from your opponent

(stripes and solids). In other games (9ball, straight pool,one pocket) both guys are shooting the same balls.





This thread also rekindled my interest in something that has been on my mind, so I wanted to ask a question if anyone on here is

kind enough to answer. Is it a problem that I play 8 ball sort of slow and methodical, but I shoot 9 ball at a very quick rythmic

pace? I also seem to play pretty slow when playing on tight pockets, but play a quick pace on loose pocketed tables. Normally

I wouldn't care at all, I am the type of person that believes in trusting instincts and just following what you feel like doing

naturally. lately I have been playing pretty awful though so I have been questioning things more often. It seems that most

great players have the same pace pretty much all the time, yet I always play 8 ball pretty slow, and always play 9 ball pretty

quick. Thoughts?