why the facination with fast cloth?

[accustatsfan]

People make comparisons between pool and golf, but I think they are completely different games.

Golf requires power and accuracy. Anybody who says drive for show and putt for dough must play on very short courses.

Pool requires accuracy and touch. With the faster cloth power doesn't show up as it used to even with the break.

 

[justadub]

The only place in the town where I work that has tables and is open before 5PM has four Brunswicks, but the cloth is sooooo old and slow it makes it difficult for a noob like me to play on. Especially given that the other room in that town has regulation-style faster cloth, and all three of the rooms that I play my league and bar tourney matches in do as well. So when I try and take my lunch break to get in some practice on those slow tables, I find that I'm not really improving my game at all, just trying to learn how to compensate.

Now I only have 30-40 minutes to do this in, rather than the OP having it in his home and being able to play for hours a day on such cloth. But I stopped going to that room because it made my game worse, as my mechanics were more messed up from having to stroke the ball so much harder than I ever have to anywhere else. I can't imagine putting something in my home that would be so vastly different than what everyone else plays on regularly. But that's just me.

 

[Tin Man]

slow cloth

Look at it this way- in pool there are shots you have to shoot hard, there are some that you can lag in to the hole. Most of the time the softer speed shots are easier if you are close, but many times longer shots are easier at firmer speeds. I agree that it is a finesse game and a good player doesn't shoot hard often, I just think that practicing on slower cloth makes all of the shots on regular equipment seem easier.

Again, my rails are lively and the cloth isn't too slow in terms of how far you can move the balls around, it just requires a strong stroke to move the balls around using draw and english.

 

[duckie]

Let me get this straight...you think that a slower playing cloth is going to help you improve your playing skills...right?...as in a better stroke for like draw shots, follow, and other english shots?

So, a year of playing on the worlds slowest playing cloth...would give you an advantage over other players that don't play on it...like SVB, JA...and countless others?

Fast and slow cloth, is like playing on different tables...if you can play...you bring your STROKE with you...if you can't stroke the ball, then slow cloth is not going to hurt you, nor help.

The one common denominator to a pool player...is the ability to ADAPT to the table you're playing on...the one that is right there in front of you at the time you're playing.

Stop looking for an excuse as to why you play the way you do, and have the stroke you have....put in the time practicing and you won't be thinking like this.

Glen

Well said. I'm lucky to be within 30 minutes of three good rooms. They are use different felt, different balls and differnt lighting. I try to practice at all these places. Because of this, I have a really good sense of speed and good control of my stroke speed.

 

[pt109]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

I hate slow cloth..it takes away options..even for top players.
Spin doesn't stay on long enough..main reason snooker players
play a lot of plain ball hits.And whitey goes airborn because of
resistance at impact.

Years ago i went to a room in Carbondale IL.They had a 3-cushion
table.I brought the balls back after one shot.The owner said "Anything
wrong?"I said "Putting pool cloth on a billiard table is like white-washing
a Cadilac."

And some players equate loose cloth with slow cloth.I would gamble on
almost anything but i barred loose cloth for it's unpredictability.

Slow cloth would make Rogan change his Earl quote to.....
...Pool is an ugly game played by ugly people...

 

[Deadon]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

SS:

I think your premise is wrong. The only thing that will improve your stroke is better mechanics. There are many drills, lessons etc, to help.

Playing on slow cloth in no way will solve these problems. On the contrary, all you will be doing is hitting the QB harder to make it move the same distance as on fast cloth. There is no lesson here. You will overpower each shot with speed and not stroke. You may even develop bad habits in trying to overpower each shot. Improve your mechanics and learn to move the QB effortlessly, thats the key to a powerful, not sure that is even a good term, stroke. IMHO

 

[softshot]

if you are worried about equipment... you are worrying about the wrong things....


that is all

 

[gunzby]

I'd much rather play on fast cloth. The transition from fast cloth to slow cloth is actually easy for me. On the other hand the transition of years ago when I was used to only slow cloth to fast cloth was a nightmare. Because of that staying used to fast cloth is the way to go for me.

 

[predator]

I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

You won't develop anything by playing on that stuff. It is a futile effort.

But, if you really want to experiment with the slowest possible cloth, I'd go for heaviest available club snooker cloth. It's napped and basically carpet compared to Simonis. Make sure you have humid conditions and also never clean the stuff.

http://www.milliken-wsp.co.uk/en-gb/Pages/strachan_snooker_cloths_product_range.aspx

 

[paksat]

Take it from a person that plays on virtually nothing but slow cloth..

this is a bad idea, it will ruin your touch on the fast tables when you play at tourneys etc.

not to mention it's just a PAIN IN THE ASS to move the cue ball on. If you want to develop a powerful stroke i guess then have at it, but i'm just going to let you know that when you get on simonis your touch is going to be wayyy out of whack.

 

[paksat]

I was just curious as to why everyone loves fast cloth so much. Everyone begs for tighter pockets and less luck in the rules, why not slower cloth too?

Try playing 14.1 on an old bar table felt sometime then come talk to me

 

[str8-pool]

I have a love / hate relationship with slow cloth, especially playing 14.1.
Every time I get a new high run it is always on fast cloth. But I feel the
slow cloth makes a better player so it is actually my preference. When I
play on really slow cloth it is a constant challenge each and every rack
and you must play close to perfect and have great angles to do well. On
fast cloth there is much more room for error because with more open balls
you're getting more chances to manage clusters and such. Especially on
break shots, on fast cloth if you have a narrow angle you can just force
the cue ball to open up 5 or 6 open balls and you usually have a few chances
at a secondary break. On slow cloth, if you have a narrow angle going into the
stack, you're dead unless you get lucky. If you have to force the cue ball on slow
cloth you maybe open up 1 or 2 even 3 balls with usually one
chance (or none) of getting back into the pile and continuing. I also have
much more in depth knowledge on how to handle tough situations in more
games because in 14.1 on slow cloth you're constantly in tough situations.
It's a no brainer for me, if a guy runs 300 balls in 14.1 on a fast cloth table
and another guy runs 300 on an equal table but with real slow cloth, hands down the
slow cloth run is more difficult and doesn't rely on
having so many other options all the time. Other games too, I break and run racks of 8
ball so much easier and consistently on fast cloth tables as compared to slow ones.

 

[Baxter]

People make comparisons between pool and golf, but I think they are completely different games.

Golf requires power and accuracy. Anybody who says drive for show and putt for dough must play on very short courses.

That saying holds weight for a reason. Over 60% of shots in a typical round of golf are inside 100 yards. Next time you play, count your putts. Probably be around the 35 range. Do you drive the ball 35 times a round?

 

[DelaWho???]

Personally I find it easier to go from fast cloth to slow cloth as far as adjusting my stroke to the conditions. I find that it takes longer to get the feel of faster cloth and consequently I end up over running position.

When I got my home table I put simonis on it. You definitely need to have speed control to play on fast cloth. Once I developed that touch it was much easier to play slow cloth

 

[cfrandy]

I think this is a great idea! After a year of playing on the slow cloth...please meet me at the nearest billiards hall for some money games. You should be up to par by then! :groucho:

 

[3kushn]

If you take away speed you take away options. If you're looking to improve your stroke then work at it. If you can draw the length of the table on slow cloth then work toward 2 table lengths on fast cloth.

But if you want slow cloth get the old rubber backed stuff. Its nice and thick. It pills real good and holds a lot of chalk helping to become even slower.

Sorry for the sarcasm but slow is not the way to go IMO.

 

[sooperstroke]

well it looks like thiers arguments for both sides. Im proably gonna go with something in between. I just hear all the old timers talk about how easy the game is now that everybody can draw the length of the table. Whereas in the old days u needed a real good stroke to do the same thing. Personally for me I always adjust better to cloth thats to fast than cloth thats too slow. I can always go an extra rail if the cloths to fast but it aint that easy when ur on slow cloth.


So anyone know a good "in between cloth" hows granito? or championship tourney edition.

 

[sooperstroke]

Try playing 14.1 on an old bar table felt sometime then come talk to me

mosconi didnt play on simonis. the old slower cloth seemed fine for him.

 

[sooperstroke]

People are going to hate playing on your table. Unless you plan on playing alone for the rest of your life why not get something that's mainstream. All a fast felt does is give the same result with less effort. It seems you don't have much control when stroking softly so you need the slow felt to compensate. If your stroke is straight-it's straight. A felt is not going to change your stroke. The only difference is that you'll be banging balls on the slow felt to get them the same distance a light push will get on a fast felt

Im paying for the cloth I dont care what everyone else likes. If i want to play someone else thats what the poolhalls for. And who said i dont have much control when stroking softly? Like I said earlier, my games fine I just wanted a more powerful stroke. To move the ball easier with less effort.

IMO, and as mentioned, the slower the cloth, the harder you have to hit the CB to move it around the table and the harder you have to hit the CB the harder it is to maintain accuracy.

Exactly. So then wouldnt my accuracy improve after playing on it for a long time. Like going from double shimmed to buckets?

IMO, you need faster cloth for most of today's games. With slow cloth, 8-ball and 9-ball become 1/2 table games. This actually makes it MORE difficult to play. You might be able to get away with slow cloth in 1-pocket or 14.1, but there is more to pool than the speed of the cloth.

Also:
1) The speed of the cloth limits how far you can move the cue ball, NOT how good your stroke is.
2) There are some shots you can only do on a fast cloth, thus your arsenal is going to be limited by playing on slow cloth.
3) More places have fast(ish) cloth. Because the balls play differently on fast cloth than slow, if you practice on slow, you will be at a distinct disadvantage when you step into a pool hall.

-td

according to paksat slow cloth is the worst for 14.1.

My table at home has simonis on it but after a few years of heavy practice it is playing pretty slow. I have resisted changing it for the very reason OP started this thread.

I firmly believe that slow cloth improves your game. My table has pockets that are reasonably tight but the speed of the cloth makes them even tougher. When you have to shoot firmly the pockets tighten up, and if a ball scrapes the cushion coming down the rail it picks up reverse spin and bobbles out as opposed to sliding in. To make it even more difficult you really have to account for the curving path of the cueball any time you roll a ball with english, whereas on freshly set up diamond pro tables the cueball slides all of the way to the object ball. I feel that practicing on a slow table forces you to acquire good angles, a strong stroke, and a lot of feel for these reasons.

On the occasions that I do get to pro tournaments I have never had any trouble adjusting to the equipment. Because my rails are lively I still play for similar angles, I just get to hit the balls more softly (and I have never had any problem with my touch). My accuracy improves and the pockets are much more forgiving. It is like going to a bar table in that layouts that would be very demanding on my table become a shoot and stop proposition. Playing world class competition is demanding enough mentally, it is nice to have the physical game seem easier.

This assumes that you use balance, meaning that of course you have to play on a variety of equipment. If all you do is play on tight pockets you can lose confidence and mess up your shot selection by skewing your percentages. I think it goes without saying that you must log hours on the equipment that you wish to compete on. That said, I would encourage our original poster to stick to his guns on this one.

One afterthought on this is that if you already have a strong stroke and are lacking finesse it might make more sense to have a quick cloth. For my, I have always had a soft touch but used to lose accuracy quickly when I had to shoot firmly. Slow cloth became one of my best allies in developing that skill.

***EDITED to add this comment: Slow is relative- my cloth is still simonis, it is just old and tired and nothing like a new table. If you play on shag carpet on which draw is impossible from half court that may be going to far.

well then were in agreement. It helps. And this is coming from someone with slow cloth on theyr table. Not just someone with an unimformed opinion.

Look at it this way- in pool there are shots you have to shoot hard, there are some that you can lag in to the hole. Most of the time the softer speed shots are easier if you are close, but many times longer shots are easier at firmer speeds. I agree that it is a finesse game and a good player doesn't shoot hard often, I just think that practicing on slower cloth makes all of the shots on regular equipment seem easier.

Again, my rails are lively and the cloth isn't too slow in terms of how far you can move the balls around, it just requires a strong stroke to move the balls around using draw and english.

Thats what I was thinking. If i have to stroke it harder and more accurate on slow cloth then going to faster cloth should be that much easier

I have a love / hate relationship with slow cloth, especially playing 14.1.
Every time I get a new high run it is always on fast cloth. But I feel the
slow cloth makes a better player so it is actually my preference. When I
play on really slow cloth it is a constant challenge each and every rack
and you must play close to perfect and have great angles to do well. On
fast cloth there is much more room for error because with more open balls
you're getting more chances to manage clusters and such. Especially on
break shots, on fast cloth if you have a narrow angle you can just force
the cue ball to open up 5 or 6 open balls and you usually have a few chances
at a secondary break. On slow cloth, if you have a narrow angle going into the
stack, you're dead unless you get lucky. If you have to force the cue ball on slow
cloth you maybe open up 1 or 2 even 3 balls with usually one
chance (or none) of getting back into the pile and continuing. I also have
much more in depth knowledge on how to handle tough situations in more
games because in 14.1 on slow cloth you're constantly in tough situations.
It's a no brainer for me, if a guy runs 300 balls in 14.1 on a fast cloth table
and another guy runs 300 on an equal table but with real slow cloth, hands down the
slow cloth run is more difficult and doesn't rely on
having so many other options all the time. Other games too, I break and run racks of 8
ball so much easier and consistently on fast cloth tables as compared to slow ones.

So u have to be more accurate with slow cloth. then switching to a table that plays like glass should be that much eaiser. that was my thinking from the start.

 

[TATE]

well it looks like thiers arguments for both sides. Im proably gonna go with something in between. I just hear all the old timers talk about how easy the game is now that everybody can draw the length of the table.

Plus the balls are better now - you get more action on the cue ball anyway.

I just want to point out that on draw shots, the weave of the cloth makes a big difference. The cloth at Hollywood is fairly slow but it has a lot of texture, so you can draw the ball with about half the effort as Simonis.

Personally, I have always found newer Simonis to be an almost "too slick" cloth that can be difficult at times. Home tables with new Simonis tend to play slick for a long time before the cloth is eventually broken in, especially if you clean the cloth and get the chalk out. So, in a way you need a big stroke on certain shots - or at least learn how to make certain strokes that prevent the cue ball from skidding around too much.

Realistically, you should play on the type of cloth (and hopefully cushions too) that you typically play on to compete.

I personally would go with the new heat resistant Simonis just because it will last longer - I don't know the speed but it's supposed to reduce friction marks from break shots, etc . Most of the speed comes fom the cushions anyway.

Chris