Why use a Milk Dud Tip?

rackmsuckr

rackmsuckr

Linda Carter - The QUEEN!
Silver Member
Glenn Atwell gave me a Milk Dud tip for when I replace my LePro. He swears by them. What are the pros and cons?

FWIW, I like to spin my ball a lot and I like a medium, rather than a hard tip to feel the hit. If it wasn't cost-prohibitive to keep replacing tips and mushrooming, I would prefer a medium-soft tip.

I would like to know what happens in the process of soaking in milk that makes this tip so special, especially from other users of them. Thanks in advance.
 
I say give it a try. I put one on my cue about a month ago. (One I made)

I like it. It hits soft but spins great. I use a lot of spin and tend to miscue if my tip is too hard. I find the Milk Dud is the tip for me. I have used Sniper, Moori, Flying Pig, Le Pro, Triangle, Kamui, and Everest. I find I get just as much out of this tip as any of the more expensive tips.

With a bit of experimentation you can learn what compression you like best for making your own MD.

Just my experience.
 
rackmsuckr said:
Glenn Atwell gave me a Milk Dud tip for when I replace my LePro. He swears by them. What are the pros and cons?

FWIW, I like to spin my ball a lot and I like a medium, rather than a hard tip to feel the hit. If it wasn't cost-prohibitive to keep replacing tips and mushrooming, I would prefer a medium-soft tip.

I would like to know what happens in the process of soaking in milk that makes this tip so special, especially from other users of them. Thanks in advance.
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first time I had encountered a cue with a milk dud tip (elkmaster) on was about 5 years ago (IIRC). cue (SP) used by a local shortstop and I borrowed it for a try hit.

the cue looked like nothing was left of the tip, almost close to the ferrule. tip was kinda damp. the hit was hard but the spin it created was unusual from that of ordinarily installed EM tips. honestly, I got a lot of unexpected draw from it, eventhough I wasn't using much power or didn't intend to draw. I would say that the cue was juiced up and sensitive to even a light hit .
 
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I compress my own using only water. Personally I think the milk part is way overated. The important part is that they are always compressed the same amount.

My main reasons for using a certain tip are -- I like the feel -- They don't mushroom -- they hold chalk well. I've tried lots of tips over the years. I have some I prefer over others but in time it seems they all changed their mixture to some degree. What tip use to work for me is now to hard etc.

I had to have a tip that feels good to me without all the maintence. The compressed elks are that tip. I use to use them 40 years ago and loved them once they were broke in. Now with them pre-compressed its all I'll ever use plus they are cheap. LOL As far as feel mine feel a tad soft but play like a firmer tip, if that makes sense.

I have no idea how much the one you have is compressed. I start out with a 13mm, and compress it about .070 of an inch. It ends up about .180 tall. I use 13mm so it has less tip height when installed. I think you'll like them if you prefer a softer feel.

BTW, I think (you) should know the player spins the ball, not the tip. If a player has confidence in there equipment then spin won't be any problem.

Rod
 
Rod said:
I compress my own using only water. Personally I think the milk part is way overated. The important part is that they are always compressed the same amount.

My main reasons for using a certain tip are -- I like the feel -- They don't mushroom -- they hold chalk well. I've tried lots of tips over the years. I have some I prefer over others but in time it seems they all changed their mixture to some degree. What tip use to work for me is now to hard etc.

I had to have a tip that feels good to me without all the maintence. The compressed elks are that tip. I use to use them 40 years ago and loved them once they were broke in. Now with them pre-compressed its all I'll ever use plus they are cheap. LOL As far as feel mine feel a tad soft but play like a firmer tip, if that makes sense.

I have no idea how much the one you have is compressed. I start out with a 13mm, and compress it about .070 of an inch. It ends up about .180 tall. I use 13mm so it has less tip height when installed. I think you'll like them if you prefer a softer feel.

BTW, I think (you) should know the player spins the ball, not the tip. If a player has confidence in there equipment then spin won't be any problem.

Rod
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do you start outwith one 13 mm tall (top to bottom) then compress it down?
 
Milk is acidic and sugary & fatty. The acids in the milk break down the bonds and the leather, and when you press them after words, the sugar and fats form new bonds. The act of pressing it is very important too, since that 'presses' out any air and imperfections. Thats the importance of the milk.
 
Klopek said:
That's one theory, though not the prevailing one. Actually "Casein" is considered the secret ingredient in milk that makes it ideal.

However milk is not required for creating a consistent tip. I've been dry pressing elks for over a decade and they very rarely mushroom on me.

I don't like mixing liquids with leather.
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or leather with liquids ! :D
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
or leather with liquids ! :D
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I know that milk contains Calcium, a.k.a Vitamin C which fortifies bones and teeth. probably it gives the same effect on leather tips. :D :D :D
 
J$Cincy said:
do you start outwith one 13 mm tall (top to bottom) then compress it down?
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Its 13mm diameter, at 13m tall it would look like a two story building. LOL Height before compression is appx .250 to 2.60 or 1/4". They end up between .180 and .190 which is appx 3/16". I put them in water for 15 minutes. Then compress three at a time between 2 smooth metal plates. My vise is marked so I always compress them the same amount. I leave them in the vise for 1 day. The finished tip ends up close to 14mm in diameter.

If you wanted a taller tip use a 14mm diameter. I think they start out a little taller than a 13mm. Elks are coarse grain leather, all I'm doing is compressing those leather fibers together. Because they are coarse I think this makes them hold chalk much better.

I don't care about all the supposed theory's of what some think milk does. I know these work, and spins the ball as good as anything out there. Combine that with no mushroom, holds chalk very well and you have a maintenance free tip. I think I scuffed mine once in over a year.

Rod
 
anyone ever try this with a LePro? I got a full box in the shop since experimenting with laminated tips. I know they have that funky coating....maybe I can lightly sand it off, then give it the "DUD" treatment?

G.
 
I remember reading something from fast larry about pressing lepros using a ball bearing in the centre and shaping the tip leaving the centre, according to him it plays phenomenal, u get a hard centre and soft sides U put a small bearing in a piece of wood and press i beleive is what he said.
 
It's some cajun voodoo magic Mike Johnson knows.

I bought a cue from him two years ago and when I got it was surprised to see how low the milk duds were. Two years on and they're still the same height and hold chalk better than any tip I've used. The only maintenance I do is use a tip pick occasionally.
 
LoGiC said:
Milk is acidic and sugary & fatty. The acids in the milk break down the bonds and the leather, and when you press them after words, the sugar and fats form new bonds. The act of pressing it is very important too, since that 'presses' out any air and imperfections. Thats the importance of the milk.
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When I make one, I pop a 14 mm tip in a few ounces of milk and stick it in the microwave for 30 seconds or so, just enough for the milk to start boiling. I take it out of the microwave immediately, leaving it to soak in the milk for half an hour, to make sure the milk penetrates the leather. At that point the tip has grown to maybe twice it's original height. Then I place it in a 2 1/2 inch C clamp and compress it to about 3/16 inch in height, and put it, clamp and all, in the oven at about 140 degrees and bake it for an hour or so. Take it out, make sure it's dry (always is) and install it. Plays great. BTW, the whole process to make one and install it is maybe 2 1/2 hours or so, much quicker than the 24 hour milk soak follow by 24 hours of pressing.

Flex
 
Gerry said:
anyone ever try this with a LePro? I got a full box in the shop since experimenting with laminated tips. I know they have that funky coating....maybe I can lightly sand it off, then give it the "DUD" treatment?

G.
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I made one out of a LePro, definitely need to sand the whole tip before soaking, if not, that tip ain't goin' nowhere!

It works alright, but I prefer the Elk Master.


Flex
 
Thanks everyone for the great replies. I have a skinny shaft, so not sure about the 13mm to start. I also do know it is the player that spins the ball, but I need to be able to do so with assurance that the tip is not going to slide off and miscue. Plus, with a softer tip, it feels like there is longer contact with the cueball, as well as more sensory feedback.

I forgot to mention that previously, Roger Pettit did all our tips and he knew to always take our LePros down at least half right from the get-go. We don't like a hunky tip. In fact, by the time we get around to replacing our tips, they look like they are part of the ferrule! :p
 
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