Wide angle lens for pool table camera

iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm looking at trying a wide angle lens for my pool table camcorder, to get more of the table in the shot.

I see ebay and amazon have a bunch for $15 to $30, and then there is a big step up in price for the "name brands" that are $100 and up.

My question is if anyone has experience with the cheapo ones, and if they are happy. I kind of think the cheap ones all come out of the same factory, but I could be wrong. I'd be happy to pay $30 instead of $20 for a better one (but not $100). But I don't want to spend 30 instead of 20 if they are the exact same lens with a different pad print label on them.

Thanks for any info you may have.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I'm looking at trying a wide angle lens for my pool table camcorder, to get more of the table in the shot.

I see ebay and amazon have a bunch for $15 to $30, and then there is a big step up in price for the "name brands" that are $100 and up.

My question is if anyone has experience with the cheapo ones, and if they are happy. I kind of think the cheap ones all come out of the same factory, but I could be wrong. I'd be happy to pay $30 instead of $20 for a better one (but not $100). But I don't want to spend 30 instead of 20 if they are the exact same lens with a different pad print label on them.

Thanks for any info you may have.
Click to expand...

I have a cheapass one and it works fine. Lighting in pool videos is such that it doesn't much matter.

JC
 
I have a great deal of experience with Camera's and lenses. I've been a canon shooter for quite a long time. Those cheapo's you see on Amazon are likely to give you a fishbowl kind of perspective. They did on my Canon T2i. If you are cool with that, go for it.
 
Thanks guys. I'm a complete novice, but have been spending the last few days reading everything I could on camcorders.

I have now a SD mini-dv camcorder on my table. Going to upgrade to an HDV Canon HV 20 or HV 30 used from ebay this week, depending on what auction I win. I can't see the numbers on the balls with my current setup, and I want to see if the HD will help that.

Its my understanding any wide angle lens, even the expensive ones, will distort the picture slightly, and make the straight lines of the table looked curved. Is this distortion less on the $100 lens as opposed to the $20 lens? I've also seen some example video of the wide angle lenses, and soem of them show a "circle" at the extremes of the shot, and some stay "rectangular". Is this also what's different between the $20 and $100 ones?

Thanks
 
iusedtoberich said:
Thanks guys. I'm a complete novice, but have been spending the last few days reading everything I could on camcorders.

I have now a SD mini-dv camcorder on my table. Going to upgrade to an HDV Canon HV 20 or HV 30 used from ebay this week, depending on what auction I win. I can't see the numbers on the balls with my current setup, and I want to see if the HD will help that.

Its my understanding any wide angle lens, even the expensive ones, will distort the picture slightly, and make the straight lines of the table looked curved. Is this distortion less on the $100 lens as opposed to the $20 lens? I've also seen some example video of the wide angle lenses, and some of them show a "circle" at the extremes of the shot, and some stay "rectangular". Is this also what's different between the $20 and $100 ones?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I owned an HV 30 and it was a great camera in it's time. The time for Mini DV however is long gone. Tapes are a pain in the ass that one no longer needs to achieve good quality. Once you record you have to transfer it to your PC in real time. One hour of video equals one hour of the camera running plugged into your PC. Then you have to watch the video again in real time to organize it. ARGG! Hard drive models are the next upgrade but alas they too are yesterday's news. Buy a flash memory camera with no moving parts in the storage and an MPEG4 file system. Then you download your video to your PC in moments instead of hours and your files are already organized. I sold my HV 30 a couple years ago while it still had a cult following for almost what I bought it for new and replaced it with a Panasonic HDC-TM900 which has been a great camera. Nothing is good if it's too much work to use. Tape media cameras fall into that category now that there's something better. Much better!

JC
 
Last edited:
The HV20 when it came out was sought after because of the video quality/price value. If we were talking about a pool cue, putting a cheap lens adapter would be like messing up tim scruggs sneaky pete with a cheap shaft.

If you're shooting like this, HV20 works fine.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2013-02-24 at 9.29.17 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2013-02-24 at 9.29.17 AM.png
    40.6 KB · Views: 1,422
just make sure that the wide-angle lens does not warp the edges of the video, warping/curving the straight lines.
 
Sony Prouducts

I have used different (Wide angle Len's ) for family stuff. I'd buy the real lens because they do fit many models of Camcorders/camera's. mark
 
JC, thanks for the info. The reason I'm looking at a HDV tape based instead of a newer AVCHD is the live streaming capture. My workflow is as follows:

I record my practice sessions directly to my Mac using FireWire and QuickTime. What I'm recording is being shown live on my Macs screen, which I have dedicated to this task on a shelf I built under the camcorder.

When I miss a shot and want to work on it later, I walk over to the screen and see what the time stamp was. Then I write that down in my practice spreadsheet with a description of what happened. Later on, I will review my misses shots or position, and set them up again to practice them.

I need the live streaming capability the FireWire gives me. I don't see a way to do this on any of the newer camcorders unless I buy some special adapter that converts the hdmi output into FireWire that my Mac can input.

I was actually quite disappointed that the new ADCHV camcorders lost this live streaming capability.
 
iusedtoberich said:
JC, thanks for the info. The reason I'm looking at a HDV tape based instead of a newer AVCHD is the live streaming capture. My workflow is as follows:

I record my practice sessions directly to my Mac using FireWire and QuickTime. What I'm recording is being shown live on my Macs screen, which I have dedicated to this task on a shelf I built under the camcorder.

When I miss a shot and want to work on it later, I walk over to the screen and see what the time stamp was. Then I write that down in my practice spreadsheet with a description of what happened. Later on, I will review my misses shots or position, and set them up again to practice them.

I need the live streaming capability the FireWire gives me. I don't see a way to do this on any of the newer camcorders unless I buy some special adapter that converts the hdmi output into FireWire that my Mac can input.

I was actually quite disappointed that the new ADCHV camcorders lost this live streaming capability.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a nice workflow. I understand why an older tech camera is what you want. Should be able to find an HD model less expensive than the canons since as I pointed out they still have a strong following. Sometimes we get stuck on our comfort zone workflow though. Having files not tied to a tape gives you a lot of new ways to do things. For instance instead of writing down the time stamp, you could simply stop and start the recording and your shot will be at the end of the file clip you just ended. Very easy to find again. I like to start and stop recording after each rack with my remote so each file represents one rack or inning. There's lots of other options brought forward by not using Mini DV too if you ponder them. Not telling you how to do things, just suggesting. Good luck!

JC
 
Update on this thread...

I ended up buying one of the cheap ebay wide angle lenses for $15 or so. I was actually very impressed with the quality. My day job is in engineering and manufacturing, and I can't believe they sold this for $15. I've never seen a high end lens, so I have nothing to compare this to. It works well, but doesn't really give me what I wanted. I wanted to put the camera directly over the table for an overhead shot. The lens increases my field of view, but not to the point that it allows a directly overhead shot.

JC, I also got the HV20 and have been fooling around with it. The HD video quality is definitely better than the SD camera I had, and I can see the numbers on the balls now.

However, you were right, and the work flow really is a pain in the butt. It takes overnight to render (I believe render is the correct word) any video I take to be shareable on youtube, or even to make them so they are not gigantic files for my own personal use.

So now I'm waiting for the replacement of a specific canon model I have my eye on. I think putting them on mp4 would mean I don't have to render anything again (unless I want to add special effects, etc.). And I was looking at the bit rates, and it seems if I use the lowest setting the camera offers, it will be reasonable in file size for upload and local hard drive storage purposes.
 
iusedtoberich said:
... I ended up buying one of the cheap ebay wide angle lenses for $15 or so. ... It works well, but doesn't really give me what I wanted. I wanted to put the camera directly over the table for an overhead shot. The lens increases my field of view, but not to the point that it allows a directly overhead shot. ...
Click to expand...
I've been thinking about this also. What would be nice is a light fixture with maybe 8 4-foot fluorescent bulbs and the camera built in and centered over the table. If the whole thing could be made at a reasonable price, you might be able to sell it to pool halls and serious hobbyists. Making the video capture, review and editing easy would also be important.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I've been thinking about this also. What would be nice is a light fixture with maybe 8 4-foot fluorescent bulbs and the camera built in and centered over the table. If the whole thing could be made at a reasonable price, you might be able to sell it to pool halls and serious hobbyists. Making the video capture, review and editing easy would also be important.
Click to expand...

Yes, that was what I wanted to do exactly (for me, not for resale). There is another thread by Mohrt on a homemade light that uses LED's on a reel. They would be great for this setup, as they can be made to surround the camera.
 
They didn't lose it, you just haven't gone into a high enough price bracket yet.

iusedtoberich said:
JC, thanks for the info. The reason I'm looking at a HDV tape based instead of a newer AVCHD is the live streaming capture. My workflow is as follows:

I record my practice sessions directly to my Mac using FireWire and QuickTime. What I'm recording is being shown live on my Macs screen, which I have dedicated to this task on a shelf I built under the camcorder.

When I miss a shot and want to work on it later, I walk over to the screen and see what the time stamp was. Then I write that down in my practice spreadsheet with a description of what happened. Later on, I will review my misses shots or position, and set them up again to practice them.

I need the live streaming capability the FireWire gives me. I don't see a way to do this on any of the newer camcorders unless I buy some special adapter that converts the hdmi output into FireWire that my Mac can input.

I was actually quite disappointed that the new ADCHV camcorders lost this live streaming capability.
Click to expand...
 
Video is a tough field if you are just jumping in.

Render is greatly affected by your machine that you use, and the software you're using to render it. Final pro, Vegas, Avid, Premier, Studio, etc. Also look at running good vid cards for Cuda and watch the results go up.

Consider a good tripod with a nice head on it then take that up as high as you can and use the handheld buttons to turn the video on and off. The height of the tripod will give you that look you want from way up.


iusedtoberich said:
Update on this thread...

I ended up buying one of the cheap ebay wide angle lenses for $15 or so. I was actually very impressed with the quality. My day job is in engineering and manufacturing, and I can't believe they sold this for $15. I've never seen a high end lens, so I have nothing to compare this to. It works well, but doesn't really give me what I wanted. I wanted to put the camera directly over the table for an overhead shot. The lens increases my field of view, but not to the point that it allows a directly overhead shot.

JC, I also got the HV20 and have been fooling around with it. The HD video quality is definitely better than the SD camera I had, and I can see the numbers on the balls now.

However, you were right, and the work flow really is a pain in the butt. It takes overnight to render (I believe render is the correct word) any video I take to be shareable on youtube, or even to make them so they are not gigantic files for my own personal use.

So now I'm waiting for the replacement of a specific canon model I have my eye on. I think putting them on mp4 would mean I don't have to render anything again (unless I want to add special effects, etc.). And I was looking at the bit rates, and it seems if I use the lowest setting the camera offers, it will be reasonable in file size for upload and local hard drive storage purposes.
Click to expand...
 
From the research I've done, you can use the hdmi out of current consumer level camcorders combined with a capture card to record directly to a hard drive, or to real time view what you are recording on a monitor. The capture card is about 100 to 200 for consumer level functionality, and all the way into the 1000 range and higher for prosumer range.

In the professional space, the cameras use a connection called SDI. With this connection you can hook up anything. But it's only for pros. The cameras start at 3k or so, and accessories needed are also in the multi thousand dollar range.

The above is only what I learned reading tons about cameras and related topics in the past few months. It's not from personal experience, so I could be off...
 
By the way this is my setup now. It gets the whole table. And it's the highest and furthest I can mount the camera in my room. Using the wide angle lens I got I can move the camera closer to the table a couple of feet but still mount it on the ceiling. I don't think that's worth the hassle of redoing my setup, as the picture would look about the same just a slightly less angle.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366899814.257046.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366899855.116586.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366899887.116799.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top