will there ever be a dominant player on the men's circuit again?

[sjm]

BILLIE JOHNSON (Wade Crane) was dominating all 9 ball ring games back when the Burlington, IA tourneys were going that they started to play 10 ball to off-set his break. Didn't work. He still broke & ran better than anyone at that time.

TY & GL

That's interesting, OHB. Some said the Camel tour switched to ten ball in 1998 (best guess at year) to slow down Archer, and it seemed to work. That year, the only one in which the men's tour played ten ball rather than nine ball, Archer had one of his worst years as a pro.

 

[Jimmy M.]

It's too often forgotten that the ten-ball experiment was tried on the Camel tour for a full season. I believe it was in 1998, but I'm not 100% certain, and I can remember attending two of the events live. While it's true that ten-ball takes a lot of the luck associated with the break out of the equation, in all other respects it's the same as nine ball, meaning, a) slop counts, b) racks are won with unintended safeties, and c) the results are, far too often, randomized by what happens in the kicking game. Neither the fans who attended those Camel events in 1998 nor the pros who participated in them seem to be begging for the return of ten ball.

I don't think 10-ball is the answer, although they might try it. Who knows? I'd like to see the "Pro Express" (formerly known as Texas Express) rules go away. Every time the rules of the game change to "favor television", some of the game's integrity is lost. Texas Express, huge pockets, super fast cloth, Sardo Rack, short sets (i.e., race to 7 finals?!?) - They want to turn pool into a carnival game. Why not just show up and flip quarters instead? Meantime, all of these changes to make pool better for TV, and where has it gotten the game? It's in the same place as it was 20 years ago. It's barely televized and the prize funds haven't changed a bit. What really needs to happen is that the players need to stop letting ESPN, or some other organization that isn't comprised of people in the billiards industry, dictate the rules of the game. They aren't pool players, and they don't know anything about pool. They want to turn the game into a carnival game that doesn't take so long so that they can show it at 1:00 AM as a filler between reruns of Sportcenter. The men already aren't on TV (not very much, anyway). They should do what they can to make the changes that need to be made to protect the integrity of the game. Come up with some changes that will honestly be good for the game. When/if they can come up with a truly good product, they'll have a better case to make when approaching ESPN, or Hilton, or whoever else they might be courting. Oh, and just so that you trolls (you know who you are out there) can't flame me for this, this is all JMO! Hah!

 

[OldHasBeen]

Archer's strength ...........

Archers strength is not in his break but in his rack (as some have said, E.S., Not Me).
TY & GL

 

[B.J.the bandit]

'Well', Back in the ol-days there were verry few places to play. NO FAMILYROOMS, NO T.V.GAMES ,IT WAS A DIFF?WORLD??HELL THEY DIDNOT ALLOW WOMEN IN THE POOL HALLS ,WHEN I WAS GROWING UP!!! iF YOU HUNG AROUND poolhalls YOU WERE THOUGHT OF AS A :BUM: iT WAS HIDDEN IN THEIR GARAGE OR BASEMENT!!! SO NOT AS MANY TOP PLAYERS??

 

[Bob Jewett]

... . Mosconi ran well over 500 balls in an exibition and stopped only because...

A link to an image at the Smithsonian Institution of an affadavit describing the run and signed by about 3 dozen witnesses is in the "Misc Files" page on the SFBA web site, www.sfbilliards.com
It was 526 on a 4x8 and he missed.

 

[mjantti]

He Missed! Mentioned in many articles!

Thanks. At least what articles and threads I've read, no one seemed to know for sure...

 

[Rude Dog]

A link to an image at the Smithsonian Institution of an affadavit describing the run and signed by about 3 dozen witnesses is in the "Misc Files" page on the SFBA web site, www.sfbilliards.com
It was 526 on a 4x8 and he missed.

Where does it say he missed?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Where does it say he missed?

I think it was in a contemporary article in the local paper. I don't have a reference for that part.

 

[PoolBum]

I still beleive that Mosconi is the greatest ever. 14.1 is more of a standard based game. In other words you can judge how good you are without having to play anyone. Mosconi ran well over 500 balls in an exibition and stopped only because he was tired. If you bring back 14.1 their would be more of a standard based measuring stick to see who the best is and yes I believe one or two players would begin to dominate. However, 14.1 isn't good for t.v. so I doubt it will happen.

Thanks,
Marcus

Willie missed.

 

[cueman]

Well Sigel quit because the game was too easy for him. 150 and out twice in tournament play. Then he came back last year to see if anything changed and proved that people still can't beat him so he quit again.

He left the game twice, on top both times.

Since no one can beat him, and there is no money in it for him, why should he compete?

But seriously, there just are too many players out there now who can win a match against anyone for any one person to be dominant. In Mosconi's time how many really great players were there? Would Mosconi be as great if he had to play Sigel in his prime? Or any of the top players of today on a daily basis?

Jake

Sigel showed up for a 14.1 tournament a couple of years ago. Lost and speared his cue tip first into the ground and broke his shaft. He said, "I forgot how bad it feels to lose. I wasn't ready for this." He could still win some now but he would not dominate.

 

[JustPlay]

Sigel showed up for a 14.1 tournament a couple of years ago. Lost and speared his cue tip first into the ground and broke his shaft. He said, "I forgot how bad it feels to lose. I wasn't ready for this." He could still win some now but he would not dominate.

It was the 2000 US open Straight Pool and he made a great shot and scratched and then snapped his cue shaft in half. He was playing John Schmidt. I have it on Accu Stats. Really funny to watch as Dallas West tried to say it was an accident while Incardona just admitted it was out of anger and on purpose.....

 

[Gerald]

That's where the conflict comes in...he wants to be the Tiger Woods of GOLF.

Funny that you should mention that. Friday night I was just in front of Johnny Archer and Mike Davis at the Bicycle Club and the main topic of conversation was how hard Corey had been working on his golf swing. You have been right on in your last two posts in this thread==breaks, who is hot and rolls at the top level determine the out come.

 

[sjm]

It was the 2000 US open Straight Pool and he made a great shot and scratched and then snapped his cue shaft in half. He was playing John Schmidt. I have it on Accu Stats. Really funny to watch as Dallas West tried to say it was an accident while Incardona just admitted it was out of anger and on purpose.....

Yeah, and it all happened on John Schmidt's birthday, too.

 

[mjantti]

Yeah, and it all happened on John Schmidt's birthday, too.

LOL ! What a present, make the player of the 80's break his shaft

I have a clip in which Johnny Archer breaks his shaft in a 14.1 match against Tony Robles after missing a simple ball.

 

[Renegade]

Back to billiards from golf?

Originally Posted by drivermaker

That's where the conflict comes in...he wants to be the Tiger Woods of GOLF.





I guess Corey Dueul's back to playing billiards. His recent win in the UPA says he's back in a big way.

 

[Renegade]

I was just looking at the moneylist and if we were to use it as a benchmark (i know, it's a very limited benchmark, but still, it gives us some idea of who's winning out there), I'd say that Efren Reyes can be considered as THE dominant player. From 2000 to 2004 he's been consistently in the top 4.

2000 - 4th $ 79,930
2001 - 1st 215,362
2002 - 1st 126,200
2003 - 3rd 106,050
2004 - 1st 124,150

No other player accomplished this. Alex Pagulayan was 2nd and 4th in 2004 and 2003, respectively; Allison Fisher 3rd, 4th, and 1st in 2004, 2002, and 2000; Francisco Bustamante was 2nd in 2003 and 2002.

What do you think?

 

[vapoolplayer]

I was just looking at the moneylist and if we were to use it as a benchmark (i know, it's a very limited benchmark, but still, it gives us some idea of who's winning out there), I'd say that Efren Reyes can be considered as THE dominant player. From 2000 to 2004 he's been consistently in the top 4.

2000 - 4th $ 79,930
2001 - 1st 215,362
2002 - 1st 126,200
2003 - 3rd 106,050
2004 - 1st 124,150

No other player accomplished this. Alex Pagulayan was 2nd and 4th in 2004 and 2003, respectively; Allison Fisher 3rd, 4th, and 1st in 2004, 2002, and 2000; Francisco Bustamante was 2nd in 2003 and 2002.

What do you think?

i'm not 100 percent sure here, but if you look into the wins on the money lists of the 3 phillipino players you listed you'll see alot of them with wins in asian tournaments that the rest of the world isn't allowed to participate in. take those away and the will probably be in the same ball park as everyone else.

also i wouldn't put the most money for the dominant player, as just one tournament payed efren about 160,000 one year, without that he would have had 55,000 and been alot lower.

personally i would have to say there are about 10 or so players that seem to find their way to the top almost every time.

i would definitely say allison is the dominant player in the women's arena. but lately their have been a bunch of different winners the past few events, so that might change in the near future.

thanks

 

[drivermaker]

Originally Posted by drivermaker

That's where the conflict comes in...he wants to be the Tiger Woods of GOLF.





I guess Corey Dueul's back to playing billiards. His recent win in the UPA says he's back in a big way.

For his sake, and ours, I hope so.

 

[sjm]

i would definitely say allison is the dominant player in the women's arena. but lately their have been a bunch of different winners the past few events, so that might change in the near future.

I am always baffled when somebody posts this. Yes, Allison totally dominated 1996-1999, the four years before Corr showed up. Though she played a couple of events in 1999, Karen Corr's first full year on the WPBA tour was 2000.

In the period 2000-2004, meaning the five seasons in which both Fisher and Corr played the tour full-time, thirty seven WPBA rankings events were played. Corr won 17 of them and Fisher won 14 of them.

Fisher dominant? Since her arrival on the scene, Corr has more titles in WPBA play than Fisher.

 

[vapoolplayer]

I am always baffled when somebody posts this. Yes, Allison totally dominated 1996-1999, the four years before Corr showed up. Though she played a couple of events in 1999, Karen Corr's first full year on the WPBA tour was 2000.

In the period 2000-2004, meaning the five seasons in which both Fisher and Corr played the tour full-time, thirty seven WPBA rankings events were played. Corr won 17 of them and Fisher won 14 of them.

Fisher dominant? Since her arrival on the scene, Corr has more titles in WPBA play than Fisher.

good points, although

my numbers could be wrong, but after looking at a combination of wpba.com and azbilliards, my count is allison 17 karen 16. that was just a quick glance.

the challenge of champions is listed in the past title wins category on wpba.com, if thats not a rankings tournament, then that would put allison under karen.

also, except for i think 2001, allison has always been on top of the rankings at the end of the year. i don't keep up with the women as much, so i could be wrong.

either way, i do stand corrected. allison and karen are the dominant players in the womens arena. both end up pulling pretty far out in front of the 3rd ranking in points.

thanks