Will there ever be an answer to pool in the States?

What years in Germany?

From my observation they love it. Heck, they love the old west, cowboys and Indians, everything American. They find the hustler to just be another colorful character representing Americans. Also, in most pool rooms in Germany and some other countries gambling machines are everywhere and they have no thoughts about making a wager. That was my comment about they didn't know what a hustler was. About the time I was there players like Jimmy Reid, Toby, Big Bob, David Matlock and I am sure others were running around Europe making a killing. They, especially the Germans, were completely naive. They seemed to have no idea what a hustler was.

Some players went over there and won $50,000 or more. I never won near that but I did win a ridiculous amount of money playing players who should never have been betting on any pool game. The biggest difference was they didn't quit for some reason.
To answer your question, they like the mystique of the colorful history of pool. I can't say today because it has been a few years since I have been out of the US. I haven't gone anywhere since 9/11.
Macguy, I'd like to know what years you were there? I remember hearing stories of Jimmy Reid coming around and making some good scores. Tom Brown from Florida came in the late 80's but by that time Hustling was well known. I even wrote about it for Pool and Billiard Magazine somewhere around '86.
 
Promotion, Sponsorship, and Organization.

You watch a live stream of pool in the US, (forget TV) and it's primarily an end table in some bar, with people milling around the playing area, some guy stops to talk with his head in front of THE static (and in most cases not even HD) camera, the players are wearing jeans or shorts, and sometimes T shirts,,,,,and on and on,,,,,,there is not much there that sponsors want to pay for, and nothing that sports networks want on their broadcasts.
Compare this with World Snooker,, they actually have a tour schedule, a qualifying school, are very well organized,,,,,,,a championship in World Snooker is a major production,,,,stands full of people, HD cameras that show any number of shot angles, knowledgeable expert commentary in most cases,,,,,,,it's like a Rock Concert,, and the players are all stars. Ronnie O'Sullivan won over $400,000 at the Crucible a few weeks ago, Ali Carter in 2nd place got half that. That one event probably paid out more than all the combined championships in the US for the entire year.
There has to be changes made to US Pool or it's as big as it'll ever be.
For the most part, there is absolutely nowhere for youth to play, or learn to play, unless they are in the very small percentage of homes with a pool table. Why room owners aren't running non-alcohal youth hours,,,,,saturday Morning youth leagues,,,,etc,,,,,,,,is beyond me. This in my view is spawning customers in the future.
The PGA does the same thing, qualifiers, tour schools that teach ettiquette, handling themselves with media in a way that promotes golf as a whole, and teaches them the business end of the game as well, Tour Cards, etc,,,,,,
It's a sad thing that the US has hundreds of the best pool players in the world and there probably aren't more than 10 of them that can survive on their tournament play earnings.
Pool Halls are great, I love being there, and it's a great breeding ground for learning to play, and play competitively, but there has to be more, above that level. There has to be, just like any other sport that is successful, a point where the game is promoted with morals and ettiquette, and at a level where it can give back, an organization that promotes youth play and instruction, therefore promoting the future of the sport itself, and as an organization that gives back, drawing fans to events, which helps local economies, donations to charities, etc,,,,,,as long as all we do is show up and gamble and pass money back and forth between each other nothing is being done to help the sport. The money is just a way of keeping score, and nobody wins all the time.
The problem I see is that everyone in the pool industry is trying to make money on everyone else in the pool industry. Anyone who has ever done any type of succesful business knows you make the most money on other peoples money,,,,,,,,,in other words, what we have is not enough in terms of people involved, promotion, and organization, which in the end, spawn sponsorship.
We have to get more people involved, promote pool better as a whole, get youth involved, sponsors like organization and popularity,,,,,,where else should we start?

I have been to the tournament at the Crucible and it is sold out for every match for like weeks. They have bookmakers right there and you can bet on every match. In fact I think that is one of the biggest draws of snooker over there is the public gambling. It is something to see the way it is run. There is a lot of drinking going on, I had some drunk Irish guy dump a beer down my back when I was there. Not exactly the wholesome environment many would like you believe.
 
Macguy, I'd like to know what years you were there? I remember hearing stories of Jimmy Reid coming around and making some good scores. Tom Brown from Florida came in the late 80's but by that time Hustling was well known. I even wrote about it for Pool and Billiard Magazine somewhere around '86.
Early 80's to the mid 90's mostly, although I had business interests, I had a lot of time on my hands then as well. My wife and I would go for a month or two at a time. You get tired after a while and want to be home two months is a long time. I love the Netherlands though and I could see myself living there. There were a lot of nice pool rooms there, I hope there still is. They didn't really gamble like say the Germans but do love to play.
From your reference language, are you Europe?

Do you have any link to your article or a copy you would like to post? I have almost every Pool and Billiard mag, what month was it?
 
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Not to go offtopic myself but what is this water you speak of?

"Hanks" magic water from "Hanks" poolroom in Colorado. It's the drink of champions. One day I was off a little and playing bad. I drank a bottle of "Hanks" water and didn't miss a ball for 3 hours! Yup made all 5 of them. I'm a bit slow at times.
 
I have been to the tournament at the Crucible and it is sold out for every match for like weeks. They have bookmakers right there and you can bet on every match. In fact I think that is one of the biggest draws of snooker over there is the public gambling. It is something to see the way it is run. There is a lot of drinking going on, I had some drunk Irish guy dump a beer down my back when I was there. Not exactly the wholesome environment many would like you believe.

The fact that it's full and thriving speaks to promotion,,,,,
The fact that the atmosphere you speak of is not visible on all the network coverage it gets speaks to production,,,,,,,,
Both are seriously lacking I'm afraid in our present pool industry here in the states.
 
To clear it up without going on and on... APA fosters cheating and in order to compete in my area (let alone at nationals) sandbagging is just a way of life.

I for one hate sandbagging and thats why I've been looking for ways to get it out of the game.

I'll also bet that there are many people on here that do it too but just don't have the balls to say it.

I've been reading a lot of posts about sandbagging in the APA, and how the system is not equipped to penalize it properly, goes unreported, etc.

I played my first ever APA match last night. Came in unranked (automatic 4) and lost 4-1 against a very good 5. I was tense, messed up some easy shots and took way too long. I also had a blast. One thing stood out, however. Before the match, my captain took me aside and said "Play to win. Don't hold anything back, go in there to win." Apparently my team doesn't like sandbaggers! :thumbup:

It can be done but it has to be rid of it's association with gambling, cheating, lying , hustling, drinking, drugs ,shady characters, loose women,and just generally, it's rough reputation.

Hmm, I always considered the highlighted ones to be more of an incentive program......:groucho:
 
I don't think the poker model translates to pool... Martial arts is probably a better fit:

I would love to see small, instruction oriented billiard acadamies sprouting-up in place of pay-by-hour, liquor-fueled poolrooms.

It would be one of the more pratical "from the ground up" approaches.
 
Pool is the only game I know of where most non-pro players have never heard of the top pro's, or even care. Its also the only game where many of these same people have a hate for anyone who tries to make a living from it. They call them scum,dumpers, hustlers, brokes, lowlifes, you get the idea. Its not like the majority of football or basketball players are good role models. Many of these same people play in leagues and cheat, but they have no problem with that. I go to a local poolroom and these same types of people are talking about sandbagging, and its very accepted as the norm. These same people will also call anyone a sandbagger who happens to beat them in a match. I agree, many pool players will do anything it takes to get the money, but most seem to paint every player with this same brush. I heard someone suggest leagues donate 1.00 toward a mens pro tour and the majority said there was no way they would donate anything toward a pro tour. I quit playing pool year ago and took up golf, and played atleast 4 days a week for 7 years, and let me say, I can count on one hand the people who wouldn't cheat. Until someone changes the additude of these people toward the top level players how can anything ever change? I can also tell you if the media promotted pool like they do poker, it would be a boom in a couple of years. Like I always said, if hollywood was going to do a reality show based on a shi$$ eating contest you would have millions to audition claiming to be the best.
 
However, in fairness, I am a big advocate of the Club System for the U.S like the ones that exist in Europe. I'll save that for another post.

This approach is sure to limit our sport. The template for a successful sport in the USA is for a sport to be public and for there to be profit. Pool needs to be profitable.
 
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Very intersting thread. If there were anything I could do to help promote the game I love, I would do it. I have played the game most of my life.

I think in general the handicapped leagues have been sucking the life out of pool for decades. The best player never wins in these leagues, the best sandbagger does. I've never been involved in an activity with so much anamosity from the weaker players tward the better ones. It seems the leaugues are proof that they would rather give their money to cheaters than someone who can actually play the game. In general, pool has been blead to death by bar leagues and bar league owners and operators who promote only their self interests. Obv, they are not all bad but it would be good to see them give something back.

Another big problem is the kids these days. participation in all sports is on the decline. Little leauge baseball, Jr league football, YMCA basketball leagues are all way less than they were 20 years ago. I think one big problem is nintendo, playstation ect. Kids sit at home for hours in front of a monitor of some kind.
 
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