Without Something On The Line It's Hard To keep Improving

ChicagoRJ said:
Just curious why pool is the only sport that you need to gamble at (sorry, poker is a game, not a sport) to improve?

Do folks really dislike pool that much? Why do other athletes in tennis, baseball, etc bear down so hard to get better, so they reach the next level ? Heck, my kid could hit fastballs in the middle of a blizzard until his hands bleed cause he can't get enough :)

Just curious what makes pool so special or really NOT so special ?
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Tournament earnings....plain and simple. Compare the annual earnings of Woods/Nadal to SVB/Orcollo. In other sports there is gold at the end of the Rainbow, in pool you have to create your own gold most of the time...
 
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ChicagoRJ said:
Just curious why pool is the only sport that you need to gamble at (sorry, poker is a game, not a sport) to improve?

Do folks really dislike pool that much? Why do other athletes in tennis, baseball, etc bear down so hard to get better, so they reach the next level ? Heck, my kid could hit fastballs in the middle of a blizzard until his hands bleed cause he can't get enough :)

Just curious what makes pool so special or really NOT so special ?
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We had this discussion last night with some very biased people (biased towards gambling).

YOU DON'T NEED TO GAMBLE TO IMPROVE
You only need to practice and occasionally play better players as a guide to improvement.

There is a one pocket league around here that ranks players from 4 to 12, then 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, and 12-4. When I first started playing one pocket. I could barely beat an 8. Now I play even with the 12-3's and am a strong underdog against 12-4's. Mind you, I've never gambled playing one hole in my life. I guess playing under 8 speed to even with the 12-3's means I haven't improved right?

All of that being said, I actually do like gambling.
 
I agree 110%!

Lately my little bro has been coming over and playing for Cheap stakes. After 2 weeks, I have him stuck for almost $10!!! We usually play for like a buck a rack, but I spot him like 11-5 or 10-6 depends how he plays. For us it's more about bragging rights. That little bit of coin means WAY more than $10 in sibling rivalry.

It's made me hungry to play more, and he's getting good, fast.

The one thing about improvement is that you have to want it. There are certain guys around here that I want to be as good or better then. That's enough to keep me hungry and bare down when I play. I play them whenever I can. We don't even have to play for anything. Staying hungry makes you better. Pool is like most things, if you don't have a drive to improve you wont. If you get complacent, you start moving backward.

Pool is a tricky art to get down, and I don't think ANYONE truly masters it. Everyone including the best misses at some point. Getting that into my brain was the hardest. I can't be perfect every time, but I can be happy with the shot I came with.

Either way, need some motivation of some kind!
 
The real key to improving is hating to lose because you performed poorly. It doesn't matter if there is any money on the line or not.

If losing based on poor performace doesnt brother you, you will improve only to a certain point.

You can not improve without some form of competition. Competition will show your weakness therefore giving you something specific to practice. Also, competition will show how well you practiced that weakness.
 
PunchOut said:
Tournament earnings....plain and simple. Compare the annual earnings of Woods/Nadal to SVB/Orcollo. In other sports there is gold at the end of the Rainbow, in pool you have to create your own gold most of the time...
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But those are Pro's, and certainly understandable why they gamble, because pool does NOT pay enough, but SVB is not playing $5K sets to improve his game, he is doing it to improve his life style :)

PS: I do gamble on sports, or even known to back a few players at pool, but I really like poker. Now, you could NOT find me in a poker room playing for free.... I like poker, but it does get boring folding hand after hand, but the payoff is having that discipline so you can cash :)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Just curious why pool is the only sport that you need to gamble at (sorry, poker is a game, not a sport) to improve?

Do folks really dislike pool that much? Why do other athletes in tennis, baseball, etc bear down so hard to get better, so they reach the next level ? Heck, my kid could hit fastballs in the middle of a blizzard until his hands bleed cause he can't get enough :)

Just curious what makes pool so special or really NOT so special ?
Click to expand...

I think it's a combination of a couple things. Pool requires a very intense level of mental focus, but it doesn't have a high level of physical activity to keep you locked into that focus like tennis, football, or other sports. On top of that, I think it takes a more focus just to be mediocre than in other sports - you can tune out your brain and keep running, but when you stop paying attention for even a second on the table, you miss an easy shot or blow your leave.

So you have to stay completely on point mentally to perform well in a way that most other things don't require. It would make sense that it would take more motivation than other things to do that. For some people, money on the line gives them that motivation. For others, it's having a team counting on you in competition (like leagues). Personally, gambling doesn't seem to change my game a whole lot, but I play much better than my normal speed when I'm in a tournament or some other event where it really counts.

So I think it's not so much the gambling as it is finding something that matters enough to you to kick your motivation into high gear so you can keep that focus. For a lot of people, the wallet is a quick way to get there.
 
I rarely to almost never play without something on the line. When I first started playing there was one of the good players in the room that I would try to get to play. He would tell me he never plays without betting or being in a tourney. I couldn't understand this mindset at the time. I now do. I played so much for funnsies or loser pays that if I don't have something on the line I won't concentrate. I don't know anyone in my area that plays just to play. Unless its a few guys that come in the room after work to drink a few pitchers and bang the balls around.
 
With me it's probably because I always played pool for money. After I had the health problems 10 years ago I bought a BB to help me rehab. It helped me a lot. I stopped drinking about 9 years ago, and smoking about 4. Some days I really can't play anymore than 1/2 hour before I start hurting or get SOB. Believe me I really want to go out and see what level I'm at under pressure playing for money, but to be honest I don't want to risk being in a gambling situation where there is booze around. I still don't trust myself or do I ever want to get back on that rollercoaster again. Johnnyt
 
Problem solved.

Just take a walk around the neighborhood and when you see some landscapers, painters, or any handymen, invite them over to play some 8 ball for some of that green they're carrying. That's their favorite game or so I'm told.

JoeyA
 
It doesn't matter so much why you want it, but how much you want it.

I started playing because I needed something to do(outside the house) and to meet people. I soon learned that you could also make a little money. Having a job that's okay, but doesn't really have anything to look forward to, the extra money is a huge draw. I'm also competitive(grew up with 2 older brothers), so that's a plus. Pool is the biggest thing that I feel somewhat artistic in doing, too. Combine those three things and I can just knock balls around for hours and won't stop until I feel I'm just going through the motions. Sure as hell beats sitting at a desk, looking at a screen and the same papers for nearly 10 years.

I've made plenty of improvements over the past 9 years and a lot of that time I didn't have any money to gamble with, so it was just play-play. I've learned a few things, including some about focus, having something on the line, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it's required. A lot of things were improved by shear interest and determination.
 
Johnnyt said:
I have to agree with so many on here that say you can't keep improving if you are not playing in a lot of tournaments and/or gambling. I get back up to "A" on the box and it's like hitting a wall. I still miss shots that I should make 90% of the time from lack of focus. Thinking of closing in the patio and getting a 9' Diamond. Maybe that will hold my interest for the few more years I have left. Johnnyt
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I can't really afford to gamble but I do play the ghost now when I shoot at the house. This is a great and fun way to challenge yourself. Can be very frustrating but it helps maintain your focus. The ghost is better than most anyone I play with ;) He never misses a ball! I do not take ball in hand though.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Just curious why pool is the only sport that you need to gamble at (sorry, poker is a game, not a sport) to improve?

Do folks really dislike pool that much? Why do other athletes in tennis, baseball, etc bear down so hard to get better, so they reach the next level ? Heck, my kid could hit fastballs in the middle of a blizzard until his hands bleed cause he can't get enough :)

Just curious what makes pool so special or really NOT so special ?
Click to expand...

Is money not the motivation to improve in those sports?
 
JBB2388 said:
Is money not the motivation to improve in those sports?
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Not for most. It's following the pleasure that they get from playing. Most college players won't be turning pro in any sport, but they'll work as hard as just about anybody out there. Of even those, there are a small number that excel. Those are the players that end up making the money. A few may consider the money as a reason for doing it, but it's more of a result of how they view the game. Many get better at it because they enjoy it and probably helps that they enjoy it so that they're more willing to spend time getting better. A lot of those people probably spent day and night in some way involved in what they did, including using it as an escape or outlet from their lives.

If money was the motivation for life, we'd all be doctors, lawyers, bankers, athletes, etc.
 
Banks said:
Not for most. It's following the pleasure that they get from playing. Most college players won't be turning pro in any sport, but they'll work as hard as just about anybody out there. Of even those, there are a small number that excel. Those are the players that end up making the money. A few may consider the money as a reason for doing it, but it's more of a result of how they view the game. Many get better at it because they enjoy it and probably helps that they enjoy it so that they're more willing to spend time getting better. A lot of those people probably spent day and night in some way involved in what they did, including using it as an escape or outlet from their lives.

If money was the motivation for life, we'd all be doctors, lawyers, bankers, athletes, etc.
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Good post.

I figured someone would bring up professional athletes making millions, but forget about the millions of amateur athletes working just as hard and not making a dime, or even ever having a chance at making money.

The work ethic among most pro athletes is amazing. Look at a guy like Lebron James. Easily the best player in the NBA, and he still works out just as much (if not more) than he did when he first came into the league. Still goes to practice and does all the drills. Never gets complacent, and says, "I'm already the best. Why should I bother practicing?"

Right now, there's only one American pool player with that attitude.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Good post.

I figured someone would bring up professional athletes making millions, but forget about the millions of amateur athletes working just as hard and not making a dime, or even ever having a chance at making money.

The work ethic among most pro athletes is amazing. Look at a guy like Lebron James. Easily the best player in the NBA, and he still works out just as much (if not more) than he did when he first came into the league. Still goes to practice and does all the drills. Never gets complacent, and says, "I'm already the best. Why should I bother practicing?"

Right now, there's only one American pool player with that attitude.
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Then you also have Kobe. Probably reviewed tens of thousands of hours of recorded games trying to figure out what made the greats.. great. After that, he'd spend a long time trying to incorporate that into his game and he was already one of the best.

Ah, but there's Shaq. Probably spent tens of thousands of hours trying to improve his free throws and he still sucked at them.

Oh, we can toss a wrench into the whole works..

docellis.jpg
 
JBB2388 said:
Is money not the motivation to improve in those sports?
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Actually No. There is no money in baseball unless you go pro. But my son is not busing his hump with a dream of pro ball.... it's a million to one at best. But he does like to compete, and he likes to win, and that includes him pitching or hitting very well. Any sport is a lot more fun when you're good at and you enjoy playing it :)

PS: I'm 51 and still play "hard ball". The body is holding on by a thread :), but it's an addiction, I love the game that much :)
 
I think it depends on what you're talking about.

Johnnyt said:
I have to agree with so many on here that say you can't keep improving if you are not playing in a lot of tournaments and/or gambling. I get back up to "A" on the box and it's like hitting a wall. I still miss shots that I should make 90% of the time from lack of focus. Thinking of closing in the patio and getting a 9' Diamond. Maybe that will hold my interest for the few more years I have left. Johnnyt
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If you're talking solely about skill, then that's just not true. If you're talking about an ability to compete then it is absolutely true.

I haven't gambled regularly or competed in more than one major event every year until this year or last for almost twenty years and I have achieved a VERY high level of play. Now in the past I was capable at playing close to the level I can now, but the difference is that now it is a conscious effort.

Now I know what to specifically do to play at this level.

The trick though is figuring out why I don't do those things at times when I am competing with others and to get myself to do the correct things in all circumstances.

The answer is based on a question that my friend Louis Ulrich asked me when I was questioning why that was.

He asked me "How many times do you play in tournaments regularly?"

The answer is not hardly at all and that is the answer. You have to compete to be able to compete.

So I have started competing more often. I am starting to play in every tournament that I can.

It helps and hurts that my work takes me all over the country. It is difficult to coordinate sometimes, but at the same time it gives me the opportunity to play all over.

Also, I will never sacrifice my family for pool. It's a juggling act. I have to spend time with my family. I was recently in KC while they were having a midwest nineball event at Shooter's. I went there for the the night they started one pocket and I could have easily stayed and played in the event, but my daughter's birthday party was on that saturday so I went home.

It just so happened that none of her friends showed up and we ended up taking her to the San Diego Zoo instead and rescheduling the party for another weekend.

What kind of father would I have been if I had stayed and played pool and wasn't there to help her feel better when NO ONE showed up for her birthday party?

Just like this week I could've stayed and played the nineball and eightball events in Reno, but I had been on the road for two and a half weeks and I'm about to go to Texas next week again. I needed to come spend time with my family.

Jaden
 
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