wood ferrules
- Thread starter harpman
- Start date
Hmmmm, is there a reason that a 29" shaft including a wood ferrule would way more than a 29" shaft without a wood ferrule?
Dick
No, not really. Just the glue I guess. I guess my point is that if the shaft is already wood, why turn some off, then put it back on?
For me, strength has not been an issue at all.
Robin
I have seen an OB shaft with the wooden ferrule broken. They don't seem very strong. I thought the point of a ferrule was to put something on the end of the shaft that was stronger and more impact resistant than the shaft itself.
Kim
That is mostly true Kim
BUT the ferrule is also the part of the shaft that we are willing to sacrifice. So a wood ferrule can be used as a light material that holds the tip, and also can shatter without damaging the tenon or shaft that it is glued onto. I have a stacked wood ferrule that I made from some laminated shaft material. The laminations are oriented at a right angle to the shaft center line. I have been playing with it for about two years now on a regular basis. I find the hit is great, and I have had no failures. I even ocassionally have used it to break with, though not as a habit by any means. I glued on a fiber pad on both the front and the back. The pads set off the ferrule nicely and give it a finished look. If anyone wants to see a pic of it, let me know.
BUT the ferrule is also the part of the shaft that we are willing to sacrifice. So a wood ferrule can be used as a light material that holds the tip, and also can shatter without damaging the tenon or shaft that it is glued onto. I have a stacked wood ferrule that I made from some laminated shaft material. The laminations are oriented at a right angle to the shaft center line. I have been playing with it for about two years now on a regular basis. I find the hit is great, and I have had no failures. I even ocassionally have used it to break with, though not as a habit by any means. I glued on a fiber pad on both the front and the back. The pads set off the ferrule nicely and give it a finished look. If anyone wants to see a pic of it, let me know.
The shafts don't split due to impact. They split because of the tip mushrooming. As the tip compresses, caused by the impact, it spreads out and pulls the shaft apart. It mainly happens when a player leaves a tip on too long. You would be ok to just have a pad under the tip, the same as if you had an ivory ferrule.
No ferrule is better because of the reduced tip mass makes for very little deflection and no durability problems that I've seen. I've even done without the pad by treating the shaft end with thin super glue to toughen it. I don't use thin tips, so I've had no trouble at all, and the shafts shoot very straight. I've been doing this for years.
Robin
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OK.... so I wanted to do a little investigation of my own on this end mass theory....
I took a new threaded and capped titan ferrule and measured and weighed it.
Then I took an equal length piece of maple shaft wood and measured and weighed it.
titan .559 in dia (14.2 mm) 3.9 gm
wood .558 in dia (14.2 mm) 2.8 gm
So you are telling me that 1.1 gm that you save with a wood ferrule has any effect on deflection????
AAAHH ! you say but..... they are not at the playing size. Well doesn't the weight difference get even less when you turn both of them down to 13 mm or even less at 12 mm ????
Sorry, but I seriously doubt there is anything to gain from a wooden ferrule.
(this is just my own opinion..... no disrespect intended)
Kim
A 1.1g saving on tip weight is substantial. Look, a nickel weighs 5g. Do you want a fifth of that up behind the tip for no reason?
I think the reduction of deflection is fairly easily noticed.
Predator and others use thin ferrules to reduce end mass; to me,no ferrule is the next logical step.
Robin
I think the reduction of deflection is fairly easily noticed.
Predator and others use thin ferrules to reduce end mass; to me,no ferrule is the next logical step.
Robin
In all fairness to OB we have seen ferrules made out of other materials broken also. The way they rotate the laminates actually makes it stronger than the shaft wood itself in my opinion. So had that same shaft, you saw with a broken OB ferrule, been a shaft with no ferrule and just a pad on it, you would have probably been looking at a split shaft. So the OB goal seems to be to keep the hit natural like there was no ferrule yet increase the strength and durability of the shaft.
I lean toward your way of thinking that the little weight difference between various ferrule materials effects the hit of the cue even enough for the robots to prove it. The 1.1 gram figure difference is actually high. Because you will drill a hole into the ferrule eliminating around half the weight of the ferrule. So the actual difference would be more like 1/2 a gram.
The ferrule material does effect the hit. But it is not the weight, but hardness and properties of the ferrule material itself that changes the hit. Various plastics, wood and such all play, feel and sound differently. The method a ferrule is installed with also changes the hit. But a threaded and capped ferrule or one with the hole going all the way through provide so little of weight difference that I seriously doubt it changes the hit or deflection solely from the weight difference.
I always worried about split shafts without a ferrule; I have never experienced it on my shafts but maybe I'm just lucky. I think toughening the business end of the shaft with super glue works fine and I'm not sure I will go back to using ferrules or pads except when my customer insists.
By the way, I was unable to weigh the superglue I used on my .001g scale, so it didn't add much weight.
Robin
By the way, I was unable to weigh the superglue I used on my .001g scale, so it didn't add much weight.
Robin
I do strive for a crisp hit on my cues. I think the tip and ferrule do play the biggest part in that hit. The shaft taper is also a part and for that I left the shaft taper bar as it was originally set up from you. I did some minor tweeking to get the joint size where I needed it but that is all. It is a stiff hit and you can probably tell that I don't subscribe to the LD shafts. I think they are too whippy and only play differently and not necessarily better.
I have had players say to me "make them a cue that looks like this or that cue but hits like yours." So I must be doing something right.
I am going to try a shaft without a ferrule just to see what it feels like.
Kim
I use a pretty stiff taper (Predator guys would hate it) and usually Kamui black soft tips and the hit has plenty of pop...perhaps not quite as much snap as with a ferrule, but the difference is small. The reduction in deflection is not huge but it is worth striving for. Everything is a compromise.
Robin
Robin
wood ferrule
i play with a wood ferrule and i think theyre grrrreattt!! cue is made by darrel bumgarner ferrule is made by dan trogdon every since i have gotten used to the wood ferrule i cant seem to need ivory anymore altough its it awesome too. ive found that for such a low cost and for what it does its worth more to me than ivory now old micarta thats a whole diffferent story. any way id lioke to point out that the woody im usin is stacked not angled at 45degrees like an ob cue and im using a kamui layered tip which was on the cue when i got it and have had no problems breaking, jumping ,or playing finesse on the cue ball the woody hits great. never would of thought id been happy with it but it hits great the ferrul cost 4-8 bucks on trogdons website and are a monster steal also check out barioni cues hes been makin wicked ferrules and if u can get baxter to make and awesom lookin ferrule wood be the bomb too i just cant say enuf about how good wood ferrule are especially if u do something different w them enjoy
i play with a wood ferrule and i think theyre grrrreattt!! cue is made by darrel bumgarner ferrule is made by dan trogdon every since i have gotten used to the wood ferrule i cant seem to need ivory anymore altough its it awesome too. ive found that for such a low cost and for what it does its worth more to me than ivory now old micarta thats a whole diffferent story. any way id lioke to point out that the woody im usin is stacked not angled at 45degrees like an ob cue and im using a kamui layered tip which was on the cue when i got it and have had no problems breaking, jumping ,or playing finesse on the cue ball the woody hits great. never would of thought id been happy with it but it hits great the ferrul cost 4-8 bucks on trogdons website and are a monster steal also check out barioni cues hes been makin wicked ferrules and if u can get baxter to make and awesom lookin ferrule wood be the bomb too i just cant say enuf about how good wood ferrule are especially if u do something different w them enjoy
Now that is funny! :thumbup: