Wood Hardener

[WilleeCue]

Question: If a piece of wood is sitting on my shelf and all of the pours or air spaces between the grain and the fibers are at 14.7 psig., why would I want to put them in vacuum? I would think that they would have to be placed in a pressure vessel that increased the pressure in that tank.
The fluid would want to seek out the lower pressure areas in the wood and or membranes to equalize to the high ambient tank pressure due to the differential ("Delta P").
Rick G

Rick, if there is air in the wood and you apply pressure you compress that air. When the pressure is released the compressed air pushes the stabilizer back out.

Pulling a vacuum removes the air and reduces the pressure in the wood.
When the vacuum is released normal atmospheric pressure (around 14.7 psig) pushes the stabilizer into the wood.
Or as most people think of it ... it sucks the stabilized deep into the wood.
Same principal as a sponge if you squeeze it (driving out the air), place it under water and release it.
The fact that the wood sinks to the bottom of the tank when the vacuum is applied, shows me I am removing air from the wood.

There are risks involved in just about every aspect of cue making.
I would hope the risks are understood and minimized as much as possible before anyone attempted a new process using chemicals.

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick, if there is air in the wood and you apply pressure you compress that air. When the pressure is released the compressed air pushes the stabilizer back out.

Pulling a vacuum removes the air and reduces the pressure in the wood. When the vacuum is released normal atmospheric pressure (around 14.7 psig) pushes the stabilizer into the wood.
Or as most people think of it ... it sucks the stabilized deep into the wood.
Same principal as a sponge if you squeeze it (driving out the air), place it under water and release it.

There are risks involved in just about every aspect of cue making.
I would hope the risks are understood and minimized as much as possible before anyone attempted a new process using chemicals.

Thanks for the point of clarification Willee. I understand the sponge analogy and your explanation makes sense to me.

Rick G

 

[scdiveteam]

Duplicate Post Deleted.......

 

[JoeyInCali]

When I use a stabilizer on my shaft wood I place it into a tank and pull a vacuum on it.
This pulls the air out of the wood and it sinks to the bottom of the tank.
I then release the vacuum and the stabilizer is forced into the wood by atmospheric pressure.
I wonder if that would work for you.

Nelsonite ?

 

[Dave38]

I had a very long winded explanation written, then hit the power key on my keyboard by accident....OOPs and it shutdown the computer. Willie explained it very well.
Cocerning the flashpoint, every fluid has a boiling point and the less atmospheric pressure, the lower the boiling point goes.
A copy and paste from this website explains it well:
http://science.jrank.org/pages/983/Boiling-Point.html

"If the external pressure is less than one atmosphere, liquids will boil at lower temperatures than their normal boiling points. At high elevations, the atmospheric pressure is much lower than one atmosphere. At the top of Mount Everest, where the atmospheric pressure is about 5 psi (260 mm Hg), the boiling point of water is only 160°F (71°C). At such high elevations, it is often necessary to follow special instructions for cooking and baking, as the water temperature is not high enough to cook food. Conversely, if the atmospheric pressure is greater than one atmosphere, liquids will boil at higher temperatures than their normal boiling points. We can use this to our advantage. In a pressure cooker, we increase the pressure so that it is greater than one atmosphere. As a result, water boils at a higher temperature and food cooks faster. We can also raise the boiling point of a liquid by adding a non-volatile solute to it. For example, adding salt to water raises its boiling point."

I use a fluid called Ultraseal Wood Stabiliser. It is a heat curing methacrylate that will work in commercial and workshop vacuum systems. It cures to a hard, clear finish when exposed to 190 F for approximately ten minutes, internal temp, not oven temp. Overall I have about $400 invested in a functional, but less than professional setup I have a Harbor Freight HVAC pump 2.5 cfm. Gauges etc, plus the tank and containers. The fluid goes for $100 a gallon plus shipping. As most blanks come out 2.5 times the starting weight, you can go thru quite a bit in a short time. It does a good job and isn't flamable, but it is a chemical and must be done with plenty of ventilation, especially when baking the blanks, and don't use you kitchen oven:wink:
Dave

 

[Dave38]

Because you mentioned venting the tank I am thinking you meant to say pressure tank instead of vacuum tank in your post but I am not sure.
Rick G

I meant the vacume pump. As it removes the air in the chamber, it also removes the vapors from the fluids. As the boiling point goes down, the solvents start to boil off in to the vapor, that's how they damage the pump gaskets, etc. and create a possible explosion danger. The vent of the pump releases the vapors into the room it's in. I run my unit outside so I don't get sick, I don't use a solvent based stabilizer so the explosion part isn't a concern.
Here is a link to a forum on casting and stabilizing, you will have to dig around, but a lot of good info: http://www.penturners.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=43
Dave

 

[scdiveteam]

I meant the vacume pump. As it removes the air in the chamber, it also removes the vapors from the fluids. As the boiling point goes down, the solvents start to boil off in to the vapor, that's how they damage the pump gaskets, etc. and create a possible explosion danger. The vent of the pump releases the vapors into the room it's in. I run my unit outside so I don't get sick, I don't use a solvent based stabilizer so the explosion part isn't a concern.
Here is a link to a forum on casting and stabilizing, you will have to dig around, but a lot of good info: http://www.penturners.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=43
Dave

Dave,

Thanks for clearing up my questions. I see your point about the boil off at the lower temps in a lower psi atmosphere. Also thanks for the link. Very interesting!.

Rick