Wood joints
- Thread starter Fish
- Start date
Fish said:
They certainly look nice but I've never used one and don't believe I ever will. I feel that wood is not nearly strong enough to protect the end of the cue. There is a reason that cues have ferrules, joints and butt caps and they are there for protection from dents, splits and moisture absorption.
Dick
Fish said:
I have cues with phenolic joints, metal joints, and wood-to-wood joints. In fact, I'm having another cue with a wood-to-wood joint made, right now. (I can't wait!) The joint is a flatface wood joint with a 3/8-10 pin.
I have never had any problems with the wood-to-wood joint. Many people actually prefer it, because of how it performs. If they didn't prefer it, why would so many people be so sold on Sneaky Petes? Most everyone compliments the hit of a Sneaky Pete.
I've never had dents, splits, or moisture issues with any of my cues and I've had them all a few years, now. If a cue is well built and properly cared for, there shouldn't be a reason for any of these issues.
2 piece sneaky petes
What we need is to hear from more folks who have wood-to-wood joints with 3/8-10 pins. What about Sneaky Pete's? Having a collar on the cue would ruin the effect. Who has a SP with 3/8-10 pin and how is it holding up for you? What is the most common pin size for a SP, anyway?
I'm sure phenolic collars would help ensure the cue's integrity at the joint, but...
Fish - I am not a cuemaker, but I had to put my 2 cents in here, since I love my wood-to-wood joints as much as my phenolic joints and I figured input from cue owners might also help. Now, if my physical joints would be as dependable as my cue joints...
What we need is to hear from more folks who have wood-to-wood joints with 3/8-10 pins. What about Sneaky Pete's? Having a collar on the cue would ruin the effect. Who has a SP with 3/8-10 pin and how is it holding up for you? What is the most common pin size for a SP, anyway?
I'm sure phenolic collars would help ensure the cue's integrity at the joint, but...
Fish - I am not a cuemaker, but I had to put my 2 cents in here, since I love my wood-to-wood joints as much as my phenolic joints and I figured input from cue owners might also help. Now, if my physical joints would be as dependable as my cue joints...
Maybe I'm missing something here. Why, may I ask, that you people, as cue makers, have ever put on a ferrule, shaft coller, joint or butt cap? Exactly what reason are they on there? Just for looks? I've always believed, and still believe, that they are there for a reason and that reason is added strength and protection. I try to build my cues to look good, at a reasonable price, with cue integrity at the forefront. I'm not going to change, what I believe, is the best and proper way to construct a cue just for the sake of cosmetics. Every cue maker has their own standards and parameters to build their product. When I build mine, I'm not looking for a market where the customer is happy if the cue last 5 or 10 years before degrading. I expect my cues to still be in a customers grand kids hands and you don't get that by using bad techniques or materials.
Dick
Dick
Here is the bottom line on a wood to wood sneaky joint with a 3/8-10 pin.
It may last forever if you take care of it...but...I've seen plenty that break with the slightest tap on the table, slightest bend when breaking. I've had guys swear they just hit a ball and it snapped. The shaft is the weak link with no collar. You can make it quite a bit stronger by doing a phenolic insert in the shaft and then boring and tapping the insert. I'll make one if you must...but with a strong warning and no warranty. I highly suggest a joint collar on at least the shaft.
It may last forever if you take care of it...but...I've seen plenty that break with the slightest tap on the table, slightest bend when breaking. I've had guys swear they just hit a ball and it snapped. The shaft is the weak link with no collar. You can make it quite a bit stronger by doing a phenolic insert in the shaft and then boring and tapping the insert. I'll make one if you must...but with a strong warning and no warranty. I highly suggest a joint collar on at least the shaft.
cutter said:
Actually, that is my point. I know your being facetious but the truth is you see very few old Sneaky Pete's compared to the hundreds of thousands that have been made. As you say, once they've been used for a few weeks every one knows what you have because of the dirt and swelling in the joint area. Just how many S/P have you seen with checks running up the butt area? Your lucky if you can find one Meucci trapper in ten that doesn't have checks.
Dick
rhncue said:
Wouldn't the integrity be strengthened even more if you turned things around and had the pin in the shaft and the threads in the butt? Just seems like that would make it much sturdier.
It wouldn't.JesPiddlin said:
There'll be less wood wall in the shaft. I think it's a rattle waiting to happen also.
JesPiddlin said:
Yes I believe the pin being in the shaft may be stronger but certainly not much stronger, just slightly. Since the shaft is a continuation of the butt, it is only less than .010 smaller 1" down the shaft than the joint. .010 won't make much of a difference in strength. When boring into a shaft for a insert or threads for a pin you only need to go some where between 1" and 2.25", depending on the pin. If the pin is in the shaft the hole needs to be deeper for the length of the pin that will be glued into place. At the end of this threaded hole there would be clearance that the pin will not fill and since the shaft is tapering by that time this would be weaker than the same thing happening in the prong where the wood is tapering larger instead of smaller. Just my 2 cents worth.
Dick
The wood colloars is a bad idea that people still get by with. It is a potential problem, but that does not mean it will give a problem. I tend to over build things for strength in my cues. That is because I hate doing the finish and any major butt repair requires refinishing. If doing wood collars I recommend only using acrylic impregnated/stabilized wood.
i have built qs, with bacote and coco joints, that are 20 years old and have been"team" qs. everyone on the team uses and abuses them. i put a tip on one recently that was my 1st atempt with a bacote joint. i always put other rings on with them, but no failures, that i know of...JER