World 14.1 Tournament Pay-outs
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
It is interesting how various events have a different payout formula.
The Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour's payout breakdown is the BEST in my experience. They pay out 25 percent of the field, and second place is a good chunk of change as well as first place, over half of what first place pays out as opposed to a third or less, as an example.
Most modern-day pool tournaments usually hold back one-third of a foreign player's winnings; that is, any player who does not have a Social Security number. When Efren Reyes won $200,000 at the IPT King of the Hill Shootout in Orlando, I overheard the TD reminding a staff member to take out one-third. This must be difficult for international shooters when you take into consideration the expenses and business arrangements they may have with sponsors or backers back home. One unnamed international super star won over $50,000 at a pool event here in the States, and by the time the money was cut up, he came away with $12,000, just to provide an illustration. Everybody was marveling at how much money he won when, in essence, it wasn't quite as much as folks may have thought.
Pool is a tough racket to make a profit in. Those who can do so are very fortunate.
JAM
The Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour's payout breakdown is the BEST in my experience. They pay out 25 percent of the field, and second place is a good chunk of change as well as first place, over half of what first place pays out as opposed to a third or less, as an example.
Most modern-day pool tournaments usually hold back one-third of a foreign player's winnings; that is, any player who does not have a Social Security number. When Efren Reyes won $200,000 at the IPT King of the Hill Shootout in Orlando, I overheard the TD reminding a staff member to take out one-third. This must be difficult for international shooters when you take into consideration the expenses and business arrangements they may have with sponsors or backers back home. One unnamed international super star won over $50,000 at a pool event here in the States, and by the time the money was cut up, he came away with $12,000, just to provide an illustration. Everybody was marveling at how much money he won when, in essence, it wasn't quite as much as folks may have thought.
Pool is a tough racket to make a profit in. Those who can do so are very fortunate.
JAM
NYC cue dude
Banned
this year the payouts increased, in total, by more than 50%. Also, this year, half of the field received a check. This was doubled from last year, as only the top 16 cashed. There was also a 500% increase for the high run. Last year only the high run leader got paid. This year, the 2nd place high run recieved more than last years 1st place leader.
All in all, i think these players understand that this event only survives because of private sponsorship. The numbers aren't in, but its I my a matter of time before we find out how much money was lost this year. Last year was a disaster. This year won't be as bad because it wasn't filmed.
Part of the reason was very poor attnedance again. Its pretty sad that straight pool, although it does have it's hard core supporters, no longer appeals to the general pool playing community.
The original idea was that this event could become selfsustaining after a few years. Now we see that this isn't possible and the future of this event is certainly in jeapordy.
Randy Goldwater
All in all, i think these players understand that this event only survives because of private sponsorship. The numbers aren't in, but its I my a matter of time before we find out how much money was lost this year. Last year was a disaster. This year won't be as bad because it wasn't filmed.
Part of the reason was very poor attnedance again. Its pretty sad that straight pool, although it does have it's hard core supporters, no longer appeals to the general pool playing community.
The original idea was that this event could become selfsustaining after a few years. Now we see that this isn't possible and the future of this event is certainly in jeapordy.
Randy Goldwater
Johnnyt said:
I do not play pool for money.I play the game because I enjoy hitting those colourfull balls instead of my girl friend.
People who want to make a living by winning in the sport events should have known better and should not have chosen pool for making a living.There is not much money left for the `players portion`.I do not anticipate any substantial / statistically significant change in the status of pool in the next 50 years.
PS: I am NOT against any pool players trying to make a living playing pool.
NYC cue dude said:
perhaps attendance was low because of the price of admission. i for one would have liked to come and watch the event everyday but as a college student i just cant afford to at $25 sessions or $50 a day plus parking and food. instead i only came for 2 days. far less then i would have liked.
I think a lot of "wannabe" players are "getting out," but the top guys are changing or supplementing their primary source of income with pool rather than quitting cold turkey.Johnnyt said:
It's the same with any entrepreneurial venture or "field" that has stiff competition, like golf, acting, music, dancing, etc. There are only so many spots to make good money, and everyone else has to make ends meet with other sources of income.
-td
Snapshot9 said:
Actully for 14.1 Ortmann (early 40's) is in his prime. When 14.1 was king of games the players winning the most were 35-50. Harder game to learn, so it takes alittle longer to get good.
The prize money in the heyday of 14.1, compared to cost of living, was better then. Televised sports changed the landscape. Large crowds stopped attending pool events and TV became king. 14.1 was not and really still isn't a good thing to watch on TV. Golf, Tennis, Football and so on were becoming more popular due to TV. Pool lost out and later tried a come back with more TV geared one rack games, which hasn't worked.
Given that the prize fund payout wasn't really that high, this tournament did very well to attract the strong field that it did. Most of the players probably lost money too, in addition to the tournament promoters.
Since the tournament was held in an area accessible to millions of people, somehow the marketing and promotion of this event needs to be improved so that the attendance is higher.
IMO, somehow a different approach needs to be taken so that events of this type are financially viable.
Since the tournament was held in an area accessible to millions of people, somehow the marketing and promotion of this event needs to be improved so that the attendance is higher.
IMO, somehow a different approach needs to be taken so that events of this type are financially viable.
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Payouts
How about the rock-paper-scissors competition on ESPN, where winner got $50K?? You know that takes a great deal of skill.
How about the rock-paper-scissors competition on ESPN, where winner got $50K?? You know that takes a great deal of skill.
NYC cue dude
Banned
unfortunately, television wanted no part of this event, this year or last.
Jam, very encouraging and kind words, but the grim reality is that the audience for straight pool is very limited. Unfortunately, the game might not survive the lack of interest.
One other poster commented on the cost of tickets. My god, this is an official WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. There are only 2 others in the world. 8 ball is in Dubai, 9 ball in the phillipines. You also complain about the price of food. Things cost what they do. Just because milk is 3 dollars a gallon, doesn't mean its not worth it and certainly doesn't mean that if someone can't afford it they should get it for less.
Do u really think that if the tickets were half the price we get double the attendance? Surely you can't beleive that.
Rg
Jam, very encouraging and kind words, but the grim reality is that the audience for straight pool is very limited. Unfortunately, the game might not survive the lack of interest.
One other poster commented on the cost of tickets. My god, this is an official WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. There are only 2 others in the world. 8 ball is in Dubai, 9 ball in the phillipines. You also complain about the price of food. Things cost what they do. Just because milk is 3 dollars a gallon, doesn't mean its not worth it and certainly doesn't mean that if someone can't afford it they should get it for less.
Do u really think that if the tickets were half the price we get double the attendance? Surely you can't beleive that.
Rg
robertno1pool said:
Very funny you should mention this. I sat on the airplane going from Fargo to Vegas (For BCA tournament) next to an attractive young woman. She asked why I was going to Vegas. I told her for a pool tournament. She asked how many players there would be, and I said thousands. She asked what I would get if I win, and I said about $10,000. But I pointed out there would be a lot of good players there.
Then, a little embarrassed, she told me she had a free trip to this rock paper scissors tournament. The winner would get 50K and it would be on ESPN. Here name was Mamie (pronounced "Mommy"). She won a competition to be the "Paper Hottie."
NYC cue dude said:
I understand that tv coverage may be too expensive to produce. Were there any local or national tv stations present to get this on the evening news? Were they even invited?
What kind of print media coverage did this event generate? I just Googled this tournament and aside from online coverage from pool-related magazines, I didn't see anything in the NY Times or anywhere else. Did anybody tell the newspapers about this event?
In another thread, I recollect reading that none of the pool rooms had flyers on this event. How many flyers were distributed to let the pool playing public know about it.
If the attendance was poor, perhaps there were good reasons for the low attendance.
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NYC cue dude said:
I recall paying $15 for the day at a bank ball event. they had a pretty good turn out (derby city).
yes i do believe attendance would have been far better if tickets were $15. i think that because i heard it over and over at various rooms i play in so i thought i might pass it on.
i wasnt complaining about price of food simply saying it adds up for those of us who are on a budget.
i was aware its the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. however, its not even close to being on par with other events such as the WPC in manila which you mention.
my comments were not ment to be malicious. sorry if you took them like that. i had fun at your nice little event, and always enjoy seeing the players in my neck of the woods. i was just trying to pass on what i felt and heard through out the week.
see ya next yr.
NYC cue dude said:
I would like to chime in to say that I was a first time viewer at the Maryland qualifier and I loved it - I hope the game makes a huge comeback. I have never sat for such a long time and not fallen out of my chair in absolute boredom.
As far as thoughts for future events, I would tend to agree with one of the other posters that marketing makes all the difference in the world. Another thought would be to move it out of the NJ/NY area as we all know everything costs more there. The cost of admission, in my opinion, is not the issue - it is accessibility and whether or not someone wants the headache of traveling to/from that area. I was mere miles away this weekend for a regional event and would have loved to see the finals, but did not want to deal with the trek through Jersey. As far as payouts are concerned, they are right along the norm for the industry at this time - don't get me wrong, I think these guys deserve WAY more than they get for the time it takes to perfect their game.
Again, just a thought for future events - this from a die hard 9-ball fan.
9balllvr
I'd like to add my 1.5 cents from being an audience at the event.
This is a WPA sactioned event and the prestiage title is a great resume piece. People have tried very hard this week under a lot of pressure.
They also have a chance to gather together and exchange knowledge as others are playing. The morale is very high. Straight pool is a much harder game than 9 ball. It might not be exciting to watch if you don't know the merit of the game. However, if you do, it can be an addictive thing to watch. I feel I have learned a great deal by watching and listening to pros whispering at the benches.
A champion deserves a lot money. However, a lot money will not necessarily bring us a true champion. Everyone went here for the love of the game, with a deep desire to improve. There is a very possitive engergy emerged form this small community.
We need to create this engergy and spread it.
This is a WPA sactioned event and the prestiage title is a great resume piece. People have tried very hard this week under a lot of pressure.
They also have a chance to gather together and exchange knowledge as others are playing. The morale is very high. Straight pool is a much harder game than 9 ball. It might not be exciting to watch if you don't know the merit of the game. However, if you do, it can be an addictive thing to watch. I feel I have learned a great deal by watching and listening to pros whispering at the benches.
A champion deserves a lot money. However, a lot money will not necessarily bring us a true champion. Everyone went here for the love of the game, with a deep desire to improve. There is a very possitive engergy emerged form this small community.
We need to create this engergy and spread it.
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gh8st
Registered
I was only able to attend Monday and I thought it was great.
I thought given the amount of pool you could watch the admission prices were fair. I paid the $35 bucks for VIP seating for the day session 9-5pm and $8 bucks for parking. You spend atleast 3X more at any NBA, NFL or MLB game for the same caliber of player and crappier seats. $35 bucks to see 8 matches simultaneously played each 1.5 hours by some of the worlds best straight pool players works out to be pretty cheap, a lot less than minimum wage.
Nothing in this world is priced for college students. However maybe next year they will have a college student discount
.
I hope that the private sponsorship continues and I will plan better next year and try and attend a couple more sessions. Oh yeah, I will make sure and wear my thermals bc it was F%#kin cold!!!!
Kudos to those who worked so hard to put the event together, I am one of the satisified customers.
gh8st
I thought given the amount of pool you could watch the admission prices were fair. I paid the $35 bucks for VIP seating for the day session 9-5pm and $8 bucks for parking. You spend atleast 3X more at any NBA, NFL or MLB game for the same caliber of player and crappier seats. $35 bucks to see 8 matches simultaneously played each 1.5 hours by some of the worlds best straight pool players works out to be pretty cheap, a lot less than minimum wage.
Nothing in this world is priced for college students. However maybe next year they will have a college student discount
. I hope that the private sponsorship continues and I will plan better next year and try and attend a couple more sessions. Oh yeah, I will make sure and wear my thermals bc it was F%#kin cold!!!!
Kudos to those who worked so hard to put the event together, I am one of the satisified customers.
gh8st