Would HIGHER entry fees make for better tournaments?

kevin s

kevin s

Tennessee
Silver Member
I sponser and stake and few players from time to time. Most recently the Florida pro tour Finale. Before that the US Open. First place in the Florida event was 5k and I can't remember the open but it couldn't have been more than 15 or 20k!

It has been said outside sponsership or TV could be monies that could bump up tournament purses. With the expense of traveling to an event what difference would another $500 in an entry fee make? Say if the US Open was a $1000 entry. How many entries would you lose? But how many would you gain? Would more be willing to travel if the felt like they where getting a better return on their investment? I know that most top pool players play money matches for lots more!! A $1000 head set really isn't much! The IPT has shown us that some are even willing to pay as much as $2000 dollars just to play in a qualifer! What about having a 256 player field tournament with a $2000 entry fee! Thats a purse of $512,000!!! I think pool doesn't have the outside following that it needs to be marketable so the solution to a real pro tour will have to come from within!

Do you think higher entry fees would make for better pro tour?

Do you think that there is two or three hundred players worldwide that would play?
 
What are the entryfees on tournaments in the US?

In Europe the Eurotour costs 140 €, and the tournament I organize costs like 200 €.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
What are the entryfees on tournaments in the US?

In Europe the Eurotour costs 140 €, and the tournament I organize costs like 200 €.
Click to expand...

Most pro events are between $200 & $500. The Derby City 9-ball coming up is $150 I think. I believe that there is power in volume! Believe me there will be alot of entries! Maybe over 300. That still will only be a purse of $45,000!! I'm sure there are added monies but even still only the top five or so would truly make good money for their week long work! After expenses of course.
 
I have wondered the same thing. Around the Northwest we do not see very many (if any) of the top U.S. players roll through for tourneys. There are several Pechaeur Tour events throughout the West Coast that see the larger local names pop in but not the big National stage players. And why is that? Amount of money they can win versus the amount of money they have to spend to come out here. Most of the events throught the Northwest are between $40-$60 in entry fees and the tourneys end up capping their tourneys at 64 players or so to make sure it is finished over a weekend. There have been a few $100/entry tourneys but rare and far between.

Before the WPBA women signed to play a National tourney at Chinook Winds in Lincoln City, OR I had contacted the WPBA about possibly holding a pro tourney up here. The contact lady wanted me to get her information about venues so I got her several Indian Casino locations with meeting rooms large enough to hold a larger event of that size. Nothing else came of it on my end and eventually I find out that they made a pro tour stop in the Northwest. I was glad because it is nice to go see them play the TV matches live at such a high level.

It would be nice to have a pro event up here in the Northwest for the men. And to get the world class players to the Northwest would require a large entry fee. Either a larger IPT qualifier with $1000+/entry or just a straight Northwest Open with a large entry as well. But that would take a large investment in time for an individual or group to put together an event with planning/sponsorship/location management/etc. An event like that would have to be planned starting now for a date to be set for tourneys next year as not to conflict with any worldwide major tournaments.

I would love to see the current world class players play in the area. I never have and probably never will. :mad:
 
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It would be nice to have a pro event up here in the Northwest for the men. And to get the world class players to the Northwest would require a large entry fee. Either a larger IPT qualifier with $1000+/entry or just a straight Northwest Open with a large entry as well. But that would take a large investment in time for an individual or group to put together an event with planning/sponsorship/location management/etc. An event like that would have to be planned starting now for a date to be set for tourneys next year as not to conflict with any worldwide major tournaments.

I would love to see the current world class players play in the area. I never have and probably never will. :mad:[/QUOTE]

The Northwest Open
I like the sound of that!
NOW ALL WE NEED IS
1- a person to plan
2-a few companys to sponser it
3- a location that would give a ballroom in exchange for a couple hundred rooms we would need
4-and a table company to provide the tables that week!
OH
and a full field of world class players

NEVER SAY NEVER!!! IT COULD HAPPEN SOME DAY!!
 
the problem with pool tournaments is the payouts are not big enough,the only winner is the WINNER,the top ten should also collect a good sum,not just the winner.
all entry fees should be higher making the purse more tasty.most tournaments last at least a few days if not a week,so make it worth the time time and effort.i would much rather pay more for an entry knowing that i could walk away with alot of money.
we have our local year end singles tournament at around the same time as our playoffs for vegas and the entry fee is $ 20.00.BIG DEAL.winner taking home maybe $400.00.WOW BIG DEAL.alot of people dont enter because its not worth thier time .
people buck up 10,000 for the world series of poker and have 13,000 people enter because of the chance of making alot of money.im not saying that pool is or close to the same but maybe that is the problem with pool ,is there is not enough money for people to take it seriously,to practice for hours and years to get to a level of competition and make peanuts for prize money.

dont want to get torn apart here ,just giving my 2 cents thanks
 
Pool is one of the only sports that has not been effected by inflation or the economy as far as entry fees. In most cases, the entry fees are basically the same as they were 20 to 25 years ago.

On the local level, weekly tourneys are about $10, the monthlys are $25-35, the regional tourneys are $60-125 and the national tourneys are $200 up. The add on money hasn't gone up that much either if at all.

Without the increases in entry fees and add on money adjusting for inflation and the economy, the purses will not buy what they would just 10 years ago.

I figure if you make these adjustments for inflation, the entry fees and add on money would now be approximately double what they were 20 to 25 years ago and that just has not happened and will not in the immediate future.

Since the inception of the IPT, there has been mounting discussions on players finally being able to make a living at the sport but we all know what happened there.

This is why many US players now have to look for a living on a global scale or find a new way to make a living and make pool nothing more than a hobby.
 
"Stones" makes some very good points. I know local players that are very good and need to "borrow" a $20 entry fee. Pool has become a low-income sport by default I think. People love the big dollar events but if you have them too often the field gets smaller. If the DCC was every single week do you think anyone would come? I agree with Stones by saying that inflation has not hit the game of pool very much. 20 years ago I can't believe how many $2000-$3000 cues we sold. Hundreds of them! Everyone was playing for $100- $500 a set in pool. I mean all the average players, not the high rollers. And we were charging about $2.50/hour for pool. Well, today we sell $2000 cues about twice a year, most pool players are playing for $20-$50 sets in pool and our pool is $3.60 hour. The high rollers all hang out at the poker tables at the casinos. All of this is going on and the pool community wonders why pool rooms are going under and players can't make a living. I think the old saying," you gotta spend money to make money" might apply here. Just one persons opinion. Pool needs a major revamping...wish I knew the magic formula. :confused:
 
Higher entry fees would help the game as a whole. Most players won't pony up $1000 or more out of there own pockets...but most of them have backers/bankers that put up money for them to gamble with.

The bankers could put up the entry fees for the players to play for a percentage of winnings. They would be like a private sponser only gambling a little bit:D .

If pool is to ever have a good chance to make it on TV like poker, it has to have larger purses to draw the fans. Johnnyt
 
Roy Steffensen said:
What are the entryfees on tournaments in the US?

In Europe the Eurotour costs 140 €, and the tournament I organize costs like 200 €.
Click to expand...

The U.S. Open entry fee is $500. With $72,000 added the first prize is $40,000. They paid up to 96 players, with 64-96 getting their entry fees back. ($500.00).

The BCA Open in Las Vegas is also $500.00 but the first prize is only $15,000.
 
kevin s said:
It would be nice to have a pro event up here in the Northwest for the men. And to get the world class players to the Northwest would require a large entry fee. Either a larger IPT qualifier with $1000+/entry or just a straight Northwest Open with a large entry as well. But that would take a large investment in time for an individual or group to put together an event with planning/sponsorship/location management/etc. An event like that would have to be planned starting now for a date to be set for tourneys next year as not to conflict with any worldwide major tournaments.

I would love to see the current world class players play in the area. I never have and probably never will. :mad:
Click to expand...

The Northwest Open
I like the sound of that!
NOW ALL WE NEED IS
1- a person to plan
2-a few companys to sponser it
3- a location that would give a ballroom in exchange for a couple hundred rooms we would need
4-and a table company to provide the tables that week!
OH
and a full field of world class players

NEVER SAY NEVER!!! IT COULD HAPPEN SOME DAY!![/QUOTE]

I'm using the US Open payout as an example here:

For a 256 player tournament, you would need about $200,000 for the following payout:

$500 X 256 = $128,000 players entry + $72,000 added money = $200,000

1st $40,000 40,000
2nd $20,000 20,000
3rd $10,000 10,000
4th $5,000 5,000
5th/6th $4,500 x 2 9,000
7th/8th $4,000 x 2 8,000
9th/12th $3,500 x 4 14,000
13th/16th $3,000 x 4 12,000
17th/24th $2,500 x 8 20,000
25th/32nd $1,750 x 8 14,000
33rd/48th $1,250 16 20,000
49th/64th $750 x 16 12,000
65th/96th $500 x 32 16,000

This could be a huge headache for someone not getting the added money from sponsors. There are several options like not paying for 65-96 place and dividing the $16,000 among the remaining 64 places.

Or you could do a 128 player tournment but then you have to divide the prizes among 32 players, or up to 48 at the most, diluting the prize fund even more which would not make it attractive to players whom are traveling.

The biggest problem with pool tournaments is that you want to have a decent prize fund, but it is not possible with only the player's entry fees, given that you want to award at least 1/4 of the playing field.

There are no big sponsors in Pool, therefore, that is why most of the tournaments only have between $5,000 and $15,000 added, which is quite a good amount of money by the pool room owners. These same room owner cannot afford 2 or 3 tournaments, with them adding this amount of money all the time; therefore, the reason why they only sponsor on big event per year.

Sponsoring companies what something out of their money, possibly TV exposure, not just local; therefore, sometimes they are simply not interested in putting large amounts of money, with nothing in return. You might find a sponsor for one event in your pool room but they are not going to sponsor 2 or 3 events per year. This is what is most difficult for TD's and room owners.

Then you have tournament expenses, which are mostly covered by the pool room owners, unless they use part of the money they have gotten from sponsors (most don't do that), therefore, more expenses coming out the the owner's pocket. Really not an easy task.

Overall, it definitely takes some planning, not only by the room owners or the TD. Local players also have to get involved, invite their friends, help out with word of mouth, distribution of flyers, picking up a friend at the airport, bus station, train station, and trying to get some local sponsors to assist. It has to be a collective effort for a succesful tournament. It cannot be done alone by the pool room owners and TD's.

I do hope to see one day, the Northwest with a major event. I was stationed in Ft. Lewis in the early 80's, and I sure loved that place.

Warm regards from sunny Puerto Rico....
 
I would like to say Yes it would make for better tournaments, but we've already seen what happend with the IPT.

I mean how many people can afford a 100$ entry fee for every tournament they get into?

I mean I've dropped 40-60$ to get into a Open tournament knowing i have no chance to really cash, its more the challenge and it lets me know where i stand against everyone else.

But when I see the local tournaments in my town that can barely get 16 people to show up to a 5$ tournament, And the only time 32 people show up is when the handicap tournament is going on. It shows me that most pool players are cheap.

I mean how many C rated players would want to drop 20$ to enter a tournament? And of course how many B players are going to try and slither thier way into the tournament to try and make some easy money?

And the same thing goes with the 30$ B rated tournaments too.

Another thing i see is that if tournaments want people to show up, pay out more places!!!!!!!

Most tournaments depending on the prize fund only pay out the top 3 or 4 spots. Why not make it so you pay out the top 8 spots. Which I think would make it more appealing to the guys who always seem to just finish out of the money.
 
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StormHotRod300 said:
I would like to say Yes it would make for better tournaments, but we've already seen what happend with the IPT.

I mean how many people can afford a 100$ entry fee for every tournament they get into?

I mean I've dropped 40-60$ to get into a Open tournament knowing i have no chance to really cash, its more the challenge and it lets me know where i stand against everyone else.

But when I see the local tournaments in my town that can barely get 16 people to show up to a 5$ tournament, And the only time 32 people show up is when the handicap tournament is going on. It shows me that most pool players are cheap.

I mean how many C rated players would want to drop 20$ to enter a tournament? And of course how many B players are going to try and slither thier way into the tournament to try and make some easy money?

And the same thing goes with the 30$ B rated tournaments too.

Another thing i see is that if tournaments want people to show up, pay out more places!!!!!!!

Most tournaments depending on the prize fund only pay out the top 3 or 4 spots. Why not make it so you pay out the top 8 spots. Which I think would make it more appealing to the guys who always seem to just finish out of the money.
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I agree with what you are saying! My thoughts are more for pro and semi pro players I guess. The WPBA has guide lines that you must achieve before you are eligible to play in one of their tour stops! The mens tournaments guide lines are if you have entry fee money than you can play! Their is no prestige. Their isn't any goal to achieve to obtain pro status. Use the PGA for example. How much does a tour member have to pay in order to kept their tour card? I know they have lots of sponsers but still even so, there is a process. Pool may never achieve that level of prize money. It could be done in a better way that would indeed allow a player to make a decent living playing if they earned top 100 status. Take all the players that played in a IPT tournament or qualifier an that is at least how many would consider playing in a $1000 or higher entry fee tournament.
 
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I totally agree that this could help. I think it might hurt a weekly tournament, but why not have a weekly tournament that once per month had a higher entry fee. That would draw a field of stronger players at least once per month.

Also, it would be nice to see more non-handicapped tournaments. I think that if I were a higher level player, I would get sick of going to tournaments where I could get knocked out easily by someone worse (via handicapping) I would tire of it quickly. I've really only played tournaments in Wisconsin, maybe non-handicapped tournaments are more popular elsewhere?
 
Kevin

I get what you mean,

Well If more tournaments had say a Fixed First place prize of 50,000$ to 100,000$ and the last paid out spot was say 2500 to 5000$ I dont think people would a problem dropping 500$ to 1000$ at a time.

But the only way to get good payouts like this is to have good sponsers to help the tournament out.

Plus I've seen so many tournaments like Viking or Florida stops, where guys who barely cash, maybe get 200$ or so.

I seriously would put the Limit @ 1000$ for a entry fee, because if you was able to get a Fixed payout of 100,000$ for 1st place you'll get the players to show up and drop the 1000$ entry fee, and good sponsers will be able to cover alot of the prize fund, while your entry fee's make up the rest.
 
Side money

Another way of "increasing" the money in tournaments is when you can put a side bet on yourself. This money only goes to those who want to add it. So, if you place 1st amongst those who pay the extra money, you get that money back. It can really add to the money you receive. I've only seen this offered at one of the weekly tournaments I've entered. How common is this practice?

(BTW, this is done by the TD. I'm not talking about side bets among the players.)
 
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