Would this be a foul?

Luxury

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
During the TAR ten ball, Alex repeatedly set the magic rack on the rail with corners of it protruding over the rail, sometimes a full inch.

Now I'm confident that if the cue ball hit the rack during a shot it would be a foul but what about an object ball that is being shot down the rail?

A ball that would have rattled could get straightened out by the rack and go in clean.
 
Oh wow. As soon as I finished the thread I went back to watching the re-broadcast and at 19-14 Busty shoots a bank on the five and it comes down the rail after missing and runs right into the magic rack.
 
Luxury said:
Oh wow. As soon as I finished the thread I went back to watching the re-broadcast and at 19-14 Busty shoots a bank on the five and it comes down the rail after missing and runs right into the magic rack.
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I would think it should be a foul. If an object ball is jumped and bounces up onto the rail and lands back down on the bed, it is not a foul. BUT, if that object ball would have hit a cube of chalk resting on the rail, and then landed back down on the bed, it WOULD be a foul. So I would think this scenario should be a foul too.

Fatz
 
Yeah but a foul on who? Doesn't seem right to me... the rack might sit there for 3 innings and it randomly affects one of the participants, even if that guy wasn't the one who screwed up by putting it there.

I dunno if I'd assess a foul. I've seen balls run into it in this situation and it's too flimsy to do anything. Hell, I've seen balls plow through a cube of chalk without being diverted, but they should definitely be more careful so that there's no question.

IMO if it seemed to visibly deflect the ball (tar's filming so can we have instant replay?), then either the shooter surrenders the table, or even throw out that game and replay it.
 
CreeDo said:
Yeah but a foul on who? Doesn't seem right to me... the rack might sit there for 3 innings and it randomly affects one of the participants, even if that guy wasn't the one who screwed up by putting it there.

I dunno if I'd assess a foul. I've seen balls run into it in this situation and it's too flimsy to do anything. Hell, I've seen balls plow through a cube of chalk without being diverted, but they should definitely be more careful so that there's no question.

IMO if it seemed to visibly deflect the ball (tar's filming so can we have instant replay?), then either the shooter surrenders the table, or even throw out that game and replay it.
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I like the snooker rules take on this situation....
"It is the shooter's responsibility to see that the table is in order"

It doesn't matter who left it there.
 
Whoever shot the shot

If the cueball or an object ball contacted the Magic Rack when it laid on the side rail, whoever shot the shot, would be assessed the foul. Either player could have removed the Magic Rack at any time; no matter who placed it there. If you are shooting, you must clear any obstructions which enter the field of play, or suffer the consequenses.

Charlie
 
Seems so needless when there is a hook under the table for the mbr. Or put it on a side table.
 
The magic rack is too flimsy to cause any deflection of any shot, this is a moot point. Let it stick out over the rail it will never effect any shot IMO.
 
JesseBfan said:
The magic rack is too flimsy to cause any deflection of any shot, this is a moot point. Let it stick out over the rail it will never effect any shot IMO.
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I would think that the difference in friction might affect how a spinning ball comes off the cushion.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
I would think that the difference in friction might affect how a spinning ball comes off the cushion.
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I think this would be important only if the plastic ended up between the ball and the nose of the cushion.

I think they were playing by the "don't sweat the small stuff" rule.
 
Luxury said:
So no foul if the cue ball hits it?
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I assume You all may not be aware that the WPA recently addressed the Magic Rack issue and gave some official guidelines as to its use.
The last World Juniors Championships 2012 was played according to these guidelines and this year the EPBF included that in its Sports Regulations for the Women Euro Tour.

Of course, some Tournaments may be played with no ruling on that whatsoever as it may be the case discussed here.

However, let me quote the Official EPBF Ruling on that, which I believe is also the WPA Official Guideline:
source:http://www.epbf.com/organ/rules/Women_Eurotour_Regulation_2013%2002.05.pdf

16.4. Fouls involving the Magic Ball Rack
Once the Magic ball rack is removed from the playing surface, it can not interfere with the game (i.e. it will be considered a foul shot if the template is lying on the rail and a ball (cue ball or object ball touches the template that is lying on the rail)...

Regards
 
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JesseBfan said:
The magic rack is too flimsy to cause any deflection of any shot, this is a moot point. Let it stick out over the rail it will never effect any shot IMO.
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It will if hit nearly dead on & is bent down between the ball & the rail. That would affect the shot.

Sorry, just saw Mr. Jewitt's post.
 
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My thoughts are that if both players want to leave it on the rail, they should clarify that it can't cause fouls. Failure to clarify could easily result in an argument.

Also if you are going to set it on the rail you should set it so its not hanging into the playing area.
 
Luxury said:
Also if you are going to set it on the rail you should set it so its not hanging into the playing area.
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That's the situation I was referring to. Surely that would make a ball come off the rail funny if you hit it that way. I think one of the commentators (Cotton?) on a recent TAR match questioned this when a player left it dangling well inside the playing area. Most players seem to take the time to place it so that one edge runs along the seam between the cloth and the wood of the rail. At home I have the Accu-Rack, and I take mine off first chance I get and put it on a nearby table because it bugs me playing over it or having to move it aside.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If it doesn't bother either player, I guess it's not a foul. I assume there was no referee.
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Yeah, I'm with Bob on this although I do get the point of the thread. If someone were to make a stink about it, hitting an object that should not be on the table (magic rack, piece of chalk, etc.) would be a foul whether it's the cue ball or an object ball. The foul would be charged to whomever shot the ball since he inherits the table and is responsible for everything on the table.
 
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