Teacherman said:
That is so True.
Would this bother you
- Thread starter Koop
- Start date
That is so True.
whitewolf said:
Or old players, or veteran players, or pro players, or A players, or B players, or C players
whitewolf said:
Actually, the APA handicapping system deals with new players better than most other handicapping systems. It allows a good player to go up, very quickly, and a bad player to go down very quickly.
I've played in other leagues, where a player is clearly way higher than their rating, but it takes over a seasons worth of matches before that player is even close to what his actual rating should be. Not much of a handicapping system, if it takes too long to get rated right.
The only recommendation that I'd make, to improve the system, is to simply wait 2 or 3 weeks before moving a player's handicap up or down, unless they are playing extremely above or below their current rating. Anyone can have a bad or good night. Many good players have a bad first night, while they get adjusted (i.e. environment, rules, ball in hand, marking pockets, keeping score, number of games to win...).
After about 6 matches, the player should be very close to an accurate rating. After 10 matches, most all players are rated accurately, based on play.
FLICKit said:
After about 6 matches the players trying to win should be very close and then only if their opponent was trying to win.
Very few on the competitive teams in the APA are close to what they should be.
Every new APA player is first given a handicap without ever being watched. What a joke.
The ONLY handicapping system that can work is a league operator watching the players play and judging each player against known players and their handicaps..........IN OTHER WORDS, IN HOUSE LEAGUES IN POOL ROOMS.
POOL LEAGUES.....GET OUT OF THE BARS.....PLEASE......BEFORE NO ONE IS LEFT.
Teacherman said:
You sound very clueless. Every new APA player starts off in the middle handicap and go up and down based on performance over time.
There are pluses and minuses to every system. Subjective rating systems - what a joke! Play like crap that one day, and that's the rating you keep. Or, friendship rating system - good friend stays underrated, other guys gets raised.
Just got back from an APA regional tournament - small compared to it's national event... Can see the differences between players ability throughout the various skill levels. One weekend tournament, top team of 3 won $3000. Lots of other money spread around, even to teams placing 32nd and even lower. Singles tournament as well, where winners in 3 tiers (beginner, intermediate, and advanced) will have a chance to compete for $15,000 for first in each tier.
As is said, every system has it's pluses and minuses. Feel free to find one that works best for you. Feel free to play in multiple systems. No need to fight and tear down each other, just foster and promote pool for all people. Let the people decide...
FLICKit said:
No need to read the rest of your post because you don't/won't understand.
...."based on performance" is where it all falls apart.
I'd be an APA 7 if I moved to your town and showed my speed. BTW, so would people who play up to 2 balls below me and/or 5 balls better than me. What is fair about that?
But, the bigger problem is, if I wanted to, I could make my handicap be whatever I wanted it to be. And only show a little speed here and there.
And you're proud of this system. You believe it helps pool. You believe it is part of the future of pool.
Pool will not grow until several factors come into play. One of which is league play is taken over by billiard rooms and jerked out of bars.
lunchmoney said:
Some are poor-sports, no big deal. You won and that's the good part. I played in an eight ball tournament when I was out of town last year on business. (I'm not a big fan of bar boxes or eight ball, but something to do.)
I played my first match against a guy, I won the break. My first shot was a simple carom to bump the five ball away from the 12 ball while playing the another stripped ball in the corner. The guy picked up the cue ball and said he had ball in hand because I made a solid on the break and I pocketed another stripe. I asked him to hold for a moment while I got a ruling.
He was right according to this tournament except I intentionally caromed off the 5 ball when I made the stripe and he picked up the cue ball. So this means that I have ball in hand. This guy was in a bad way. he was totally pissed. Anyway just like your incident this got this guy mentally. I made it through the winners bracket and he made it through the losers bracket. Now we meet again. In the race to 5 this guy was so pissed he couldn't make a shot even though he played magnificently through the losers bracket.
My point. Ignore what others do and never take offense. The more they are pissed and you say nothing, it's to your advantage. You keep focus.
turquoisecrazy
Banned
KILL ALL THE SANDBAGGERS.....
Glory to the pool god!
Glory to the pool god!
Teacherman said:
As was already asked... why are you so bitter?
First of all sandbagging happens in any system. No matter what you devise, there will always be a way to cheat. But there are methods that are used to weed out the cheaters and make it not worthwhile.
There are other advanced leagues within the APA that top players can compete in. At the top level, there is no need for handicaps, so it's a non-handicapped league. This creates more avenues for big money within the pool community.
FLICKit said:
I think billiards should grow in billiards rooms and also grow in Bars. Why, because it's growth. Further more I believe that billiard rooms should conform to bar league handi-cap systems as well. Actually there should only exist one handi-cap system for everyone. This creates standards which is fair for all. There are to many off-the-wall handicap systems that try to do to many things. Golf has one system, lets do the same. Actually someone should start a topic - "Your opinion, create a fair and simple handicap system". Maybe this forum can agree which could be a good start. If it gets enough publicity, the league players can then demand that their league use it.
FLICKit said:
How long have you been around pool????? Where do players go? Where the money is. What is the nature of players. Get the money. Anyway possible.
Before any of them are put into the non-hanicapped league they will steal as long as they can from the other league, which has more money because it's base is bigger.
And, the only answer for sandbagging is in house leagues. Yes, they will always try. And, yes, I can always spot them before they ruin the league session. The APA can not. In fact, the APA doesn't see a single player play until it's too late.
pete lafond said:
With all due respect pete, you fall into the "customers without a clue" category.
pete lafond said:
I agree... Would be interesting to see what ideas people would have for the best overall standard. Most people are gonna get locked into a single system, and their way is the only way (like Teacherman - that's why he has the rep he has). It would/could be interesting to hear what other people think on the topic.
Teacherman said:
Don't be so vague, tell me. If you choose to be a critic, be a critic, write it out. If you want to complain about something, go ahead but be constructive about it.
Teacherman said:
Where else can you win $15,000 whether you are a beginner, intermediate, or advanced player?
LOL.. You are so clueless again... There are other ways that the APA can watch a player as well. But you know not what you are talking about. So it's pointless.
Here's a challenge.... What league do you like, other than your own, and why? Let's see if you can actually say something constructive instead of destructive.
Teacherman said:
...jerked out of bars and casinos,,,it handicaps any league system to rule out those under 21,,,,lot of super, under 21 players out there,,,,,apa, bca always play events at some casino,,why ?,,,MONEY !
FLICKit said:
Question #1. My own in house league with 70 teams (about 500 members) paid $10,000 first place 3 times per year. Usually a total of $25-$30,000 in prize money each session with an individual Allstar tournament and a second chance tournament for those teams that didn't qualify for the big tournament. The second chance tournament paid $2000 for first place.
Your national league with 230,000 members pays $15,000 once per year. Where is the money??????
Question #2. I've played in, competed against, hosted their finals, or watched the VNEA, BCA, APA, Missouri 8 Ball, Edelman league, 3-5-8 league, and my own inhouse league, Teachers 8Ball League. There is nothing constructive to be said about any league that has a handicap system that not only can't work, but won't work, yet they sell you that it is a good system, that will work, when your own mind tells you it's impossible to handicap players without watching them play.
Your point is not arguable.