Would you pay top dollar for a CNC'd cue?

Joseph Cues

Joseph Cues

Cue Nut
Silver Member
I just want a concensus.
Pls no peeing contest.
This is a question to collectors and players.
Do you mind if the inlays and/or points in your cues were CNC'd?
Do you prefer them being manually cut on a manual machine?
Or you could give's a rat's jazz as long as they are pretty?
Assuming the cue hits fine of course.
If it's pretty and hits like a noodle and has more buzzes than a bumble bee, what good is it?:p
 
i prefer the splice points,,,,,,,,,,done well, because i like feather sharp points.

otoh, i have a joss west, and it's a beauty. and i'm gettin' another.
 
I would!

I have paid some good money for CNC'd cues. Just because a milling machine was used to cut the parts doesnt mean it is any less superior of a cue than a hand-cut cue. In alot of cases, CNC is a process used by cuemakers who make many many cues per year. In some cases though, CNC is used by a cuemaker who makes the same amount of cues as one who makes them all by hand, but he still makes really nice cues because of the time taken to assemble everything. Irrespective of how the cuts were made, you still have to fit everything together to make it look perfect.

As you know, the pretty stuff on the outside of a cue doesnt mean jack when it comes to how well the cue will hit. The core components and the way they are engineered will ultimately determine this. I know of a few cuemakers who make pretty cues that sound and feel like a raw piece of wood when you hit em.

There are alot of good cuemakers who use CNC....Bludworth, Sigel, McDaniel, DP, to name a few.
 
Re: I would!

KingCarem said:
I
There are alot of good cuemakers who use CNC....Bludworth, Sigel, McDaniel, DP, to name a few.
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KC, I can't believe you put DP in that list.:D
His cues hit iffy to me. Just an opinion of course.
I don't like his taper and his stainless steel joints.
There are a ton of very good cuemakers who use CNC of course.
McWorter, Gina, PFD, Prewitt and Stroud just to name a few.
 
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I have only ever seen one DP cue in person, and it was nicely made, the guy said it was one-of-a kind. Hit it a few times and seemed solid. That is the only one I have ever hit. Not too many up here in the Seattle area.

I do prefer wood joints too.

I would not comment on any other cues that I have not hit.
 
I recently tried a $6,000 snakewood and ivory cue built by one of the creme de la creme cuemakers. Its rounded points completely turned me off. What should've been a wand of museum proportions ended up looking mass produced to me. But that's just my bias. I realize other people don't see it that way.
 
as a collector, i prefer sharp points and sharp inlays. i also prefer cuebuilders that take a little extra time and care to line up all the rings in a cue. im not really ever concerned that much as to who made the cue but as how the cue was made and the craftsmanship that went into it. although the maker does bring in the supply and demand equation. if anybody is interested in selling any customs let me know. ive been itchin to buy somethin. id like to get a high end samsara. i can be reached at jgrider76@comcast.net . take care.
 
LC3 said:
I recently tried a $6,000 snakewood and ivory cue built by one of the creme de la creme cuemakers. Its rounded points completely turned me off. What should've been a wand of museum proportions ended up looking mass produced to me. But that's just my bias. I realize other people don't see it that way.
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yes,,,,,there is something very generic about rounded cuts,,,,,very cookie-cutter-ish.
 
on one hand, i don't care, as long as it looks good and plays well. technology being used doesn't bother me at all.

on the other hand, there is definitely something to be said for someone having busted their ass to do something perfect by hand.

if there were two cues which were identical and hit the same, and one had been done by hand, and one by machine, i would assume the one done by hand would cost more.

the real benefit to cnc jobs is that a customer could design their own inlays and have the builder make it a whole lot easier than could be done by hand, right?
 
Re: Re: I would!

Joseph Cues said:
KC, I can't believe you put DP in that list.:D
His cues hit iffy to me. Just an opinion of course.
I don't like his taper and his stainless steel joints.
There are a ton of very good cuemakers who use CNC of course.
McWorter, Gina, PFD, Prewitt and Stroud just to name a few.
Click to expand...


I've owned a DP and it was a ok cue. I think you can get one of his wrapless cues (what I had) for a good deal <$300. I just dont like the uni-loc joint.... It's a little to stiff hitting for me.

Is it me or do a lot of cnc cues start to look alike after a while?

AE cues does some nice cnc work
 
Re: Re: Re: I would!

pbat2751 said:
Is it me or do a lot of cnc cues start to look alike after a while?

AE cues does some nice cnc work
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Not just you.
Too many of them have the subliminal female form inlays.
 
I would. Because generally even the sharp points were made by machines and jigs. A cue comes together asthetically through the use of texture and contrast. What one person finds ugly another finds beautiful. Two cuemakers I can think of hold the records for the highest prices commanded for their art - Bludworth and Wayne. Both have made cues using CNC tools that have brought more than $100,000. AE Cues machines sharp inlays through use of very small router bits that break frequently.

It's not the tool itself that determines whether a cue has "value". It is what the cuemaker does with the tools.

John
 
I've shot with Jeff Fugal of AE cues. His sticks look beautiful, really well made.

Myself, I own a Phillippi cue that's CNC'd. Gorgeous birdseye maple at the butt. Can someone instruct me as to how to post a picture of it, please? The butt is made entirely of BEM, the likes of which some of you probably haven't seen before. And to boot my game has improved immensely after getting that stick, really.
 
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I've owned & played with Palmers, MACs, Pechauers, Adams, Hueblers, Richard Blacks, Jim Ingram & Auerbachs. I've landed on a beautiful Auerbach Cue that I dearly love.

John Parker (the owner of Auerbach Custom Cues, since Jim Auerbach died) does a magnificent job on his beautiful creations & they all seem to hit as fine as any cue I've ever stroked a shot with. He's a one man operation & every process has been engineered to give his Custom Cues an extraordinary look & feel.

John Parker uses Ivory, exotic woods & semi-precious stones to create masterpieces for his customers. John can create the razor sharp points or the CNC points... that's what a Custom Cue shop does...
 
I would pay top dollar for the Mona Lisa, I would not pay the same amount for a print of the Mona Lisa. I would pay top dollar for the David statue by Michael Angelo that was done by hand using small hand tools, I would not pay the same amount for a statue carved by powered rock cutting tools in 1/50th the time. I would pay quite alot of money for a hand thrown, hand painted vase, I would not pay alot for a mass produced machine made vase with an imprint design despite the fact it might look as good and perform as good to the naked eye.

Just as the above are true, I would pay alot more for a hand made cue with hand carved inlays and with alot more of the artists skill and care involved in the making of the cue then a CNC machine allows. Take two identical cues made by the same cue maker, both made flawlessly and they hit exactly the same. The collector will take the hand made version every time.

The use of a CNC machine is just one step closer to a cue being a production cue spat out on a assembly line. Would any of us pay top doller for a mass produced cue made on a assembly line? No, the closer to hand made a cue is the better as long as the person building it does a good job.
 
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Spliced, sharp inlays. CNC work without the "finishing touches" is definately cookie cutter. I have seen some God awful shapes that really don't belong in a cue. But there are some CNC examples that have completely blew me away. I don't care how small the bit, there will almost always be a rounded edge.

Joe (---buy what you like
 
A cue makers perspective.

The question being posed is interesting and perpetuates the classic debate of "CNC versus spliced points."

I have been building cues since 1995 and have used a wide range of equipment. Over the years I have always been looking into ways to improve the quality of my work, some of these improvements come through refinements in the building process while others come from equipment or tooling. The thing I want to stress is that the improvement was not automatic due to the fact that I had a better machine; I had to understand how to get the most out of it. The idea that a person can sit in front of a machine, push a button and a cue comes out the other end is sadly in the wrong.

Recently I have been spending a great deal of time studying and learning the use of some CNC equipment (a vertical machining center and turning center). Learning how to properly set up, and program these machines is no small task. The other step is actually creating the inlay in CAD software. This is another large step that has to be over come. The particular program I use is extremely complicated and is capable of doing extraordinary things. Most of things are hard for the average cue buying consumer to appreciate but as a machinist concerned with quality it is very impressive to me. My education with these CNC machines have made me a better machinist overall.

That being said I feel that there is more to the answer than saying spliced point cues have more value than CNC inlayed cues. I have been learning all these new facets of machining to make a better cue. I will produce less than 100 cues a year and have no intentions of appealing to the mass market. I want to offer the highest quality period and CNC machinery has been the logical progression in machine tools for me. The spliced point still has a place with my work.

The spliced point is a classic design that appeals to many players & collectors. This type of inlay is said to be created by “hand,” it is not. Typically a dedicated machine is used. It has one job and that is to cut a 90 degree slot into the front of a cue. The machine is indexed to the next position and the process is repeated. This same simple milling job can be preformed on a lathe, horizontal mill, vertical mill, pantograph and various CNC versions of the latter. I want to use the most reliable and accurate method available to do my inlay. I have used a pantograph that required moving a stylus around a template to trace the pattern into wood. It was a painfully slow & tedious process that could only yield limited results.

I feel designs with spliced points and CNC are not mutually exclusive. They are sometimes used together with great success. The idea that because a point is sharp somehow makes it better than a well executed CNC inlay is lost on me. I feel both have there place and they are simply two different ways of placing an inlay into a cue. When I am using a CNC mill I am expanding my range of potential designs and the accuracy in which they are produced.

Many cue makers use special machines to create the taper & size of their shafts. These machines are automatic for the most part but you don’t hear people criticizing them for not cutting there shafts down by “hand.” Obviously if you have a winning taper you want to reproduce it accurately time and again. The work in setting up and running these machines (manual or CNC) is a hands on experience. Either can be botched or well executed at any point in cue making process. I think looking at and playing with the finished product will answer the question be asked.

For me CNC machine tools have opened a door into a world of high precision machining that can not be achieved by other means. I use these machines not only for inlay but to create the highest quality parts for my cues. Examples include ferrules, slotted rings, and phenolic rings. As far as inlay design the only limitations are my imagination. So CNC just adds to my abilities. It requires study and understanding just like any other machine tool. The cost for getting involved with CNC is high both in learning and expense of tooling. In the end “buying what you like,” is the bottom line. I just want people to understand there is more to it that the simplicity of the “spliced point versus CNC” debate.

Bryan Mordt
 
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