WPBA National Championship

Barbara said:
I had no idea I was eligible to vote for ROY. I just voted for the WPBA Officers. I have no idea who votes for ROY.

Barbara

Are you going to avoid the issue now? You said you would shed some insight on this with some information concerning Kelly's "behavior" on your tour. Oh, you didn't say YOUR tour did you? Well, let's just quit screwing around dear and tell us all what you really think so you can get it off your mind.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
Well, let's just quit screwing around dear and tell us all what you really think so you can get it off your mind.

John

There is a Pool God!! :p

Barbara
 
Barbara said:
There is a Pool God!! :p

Barbara

There sure is. The same one that guarantees that unscrupulous promoters with NO TALENT of their own will EVER get to play in the big leagues. So, the only thing left for you to do is wield your little bitty bit of power over the girls who are trying to get on tour. I knew you would chicken out. You are truly pathetic Barbara. I am sure that many people find you to be very nice. Having seen the larcenerous and evil side of you and your husband I find you both to be reprehensible examples of the human race.

Long after you are both forgotten about, Kelly Fisher and Valerie Finnie's accomplishments will be written into the record books. Having to fade your political bullshit will be a forgotten bump in the road.

So, again, if you want to drag this out blow by blow, let's do it. We can let the public decide whether you were right or wrong. Everyone can listen to the tape and we can get some good healthy public debate going on whether you are a selfless promoter of the sport or whether you are a raving egomaniac.

John
 
sjm said:
I wonder if this is a Hideki Matsui situation all over again. Let me explain.

In either 2002 or 2003, Hideki Matsui of the New York Yankees seemed a heavy favorite to win the AL Rookie of the Year award after having a fine rookie year. As the vote neared, however, a great debate surrounded the matter. After all, Matsui had been a star of Japanese major league baseball for years prior to joining the Yankees. Could he logically be viewed as a rookie, some asked? Sure enough, Matsui didn't win the award.

I wonder if similar reasoning by those who voted hurt Kelly Fisher's chances. After all, Kelly Fisher excelled at cuesports for many years prior to her arrival on American soil.

Maybe she just got the Hideki Matsui treatment.


Oh, she got the "treatment" all right.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
There sure is. The same one that guarantees that unscrupulous promoters with NO TALENT of their own will EVER get to play in the big leagues. So, the only thing left for you to do is wield your little bitty bit of power over the girls who are trying to get on tour. I knew you would chicken out. You are truly pathetic Barbara. I am sure that many people find you to be very nice. Having seen the larcenerous and evil side of you and your husband I find you both to be reprehensible examples of the human race.

Long after you are both forgotten about, Kelly Fisher and Valerie Finnie's accomplishments will be written into the record books. Having to fade your political bullshit will be a forgotten bump in the road.

So, again, if you want to drag this out blow by blow, let's do it. We can let the public decide whether you were right or wrong. Everyone can listen to the tape and we can get some good healthy public debate going on whether you are a selfless promoter of the sport or whether you are a raving egomaniac.

John

No John, I simply refuse to lower myself to your level.

Barbara
 
pooltchr said:
I had heard there were some somewhat less than favorable feelings toward Kelly and Val on the part of some of the players on the regional tour last year, but I'm surprised if personal feelings are allowed to enter into the selection process for an award such as this. So my bottom line question is...Is the selection process performance based, or politically based? Can you explain the selection process, and what goes into the decision?
Steve

Barbara,
Before you get into a battle with onepocketchump, could I get you to answer my question?
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Barbara,
Before you get into a battle with onepocketchump, could I get you to answer my question?
Steve

Steve,

First of all, I'm not going to get into an argument with John. And John should remember what his boss told him about libeling me on the public forums.

Secondly, I have no idea how they vote for ROY. I didn't vote for it. I didn't even know who was eligible for ROY.

Barbara
 
Barbara said:
No John, I simply refuse to lower myself to your level.

Barbara

You'd need a rocket to raise yourself to my level dear. You opened your mouth about this, not me. What you simply do well is to throw out unsubstanitated accusations and innuendos. You have proven yourself to be the type of person without morals and scruples who gets her low self-esteem issues worked out by preying on hopeful pool players. You know, as well as I do, that there are plenty of other examples of your unprofessionalism and indecenecy beyond the aggregious things you did and attempted to do to my friends and my company. But, then again, it's not surprising as you are only a base amateur with zero talent of your own.

Not only do you lack the courage to put your false accusations out here for the public to see, you also lack the intelligence and logic to ground a proper discussion.

Do you feel provoked yet? Do I need to quote your statement from above? Is Pete heading down here with his biker gang yet? You know, you could have been a nice person, now you are just an ass.

John
 
Barbara said:
Steve,

First of all, I'm not going to get into an argument with John. And John should remember what his boss told him about libeling me on the public forums.

Secondly, I have no idea how they vote for ROY. I didn't vote for it. I didn't even know who was eligible for ROY.

Barbara

Barbara,
I'm sorry. I thought you said that as a voting member, you might be able to shed some light on the subject. I assumed you meant you had some idea as to what goes on with the selection process. I will see if someone else might know.
Sorry
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Barbara,
I'm sorry. I thought you said that as a voting member, you might be able to shed some light on the subject. I assumed you meant you had some idea as to what goes on with the selection process. I will see if someone else might know.
Sorry
Steve

Steve,

I'm eligible to vote for the WPBA officers, that's all.

Barbara
 
Barbara said:
Steve,

First of all, I'm not going to get into an argument with John. And John should remember what his boss told him about libeling me on the public forums.

Secondly, I have no idea how they vote for ROY. I didn't vote for it. I didn't even know who was eligible for ROY.

Barbara

Newsflash dear. It's not libel if it's true, and futhermore my "boss" didn't tell me to do anything on these forums. I can guarantee you that when he sees how you have been conducting yourself here that you may find yourself in a lawsuit yet. You are the one who has maligned Kelly Fisher and Valerie Finnie. You are the one who tried to rob Valerie Finnie of the WPBA spots she earned. You are the one who acted in what may very well be a criminal manner during that attempt to steal Valerie's WPBA spots. Your husband is the one who assaulted me and threatened me with physical harm at the Super Billiards Expo. I was nothing but polite to you in email and on the phone. I was respectful to you and to your husband. You both are the ones who turned this around and you are going to get you asses handed to you again if you don't drop it.

So, feel free to go and cry to whomever you want to but keep your personal issues off the air unless you want to get called on them. You were wrong last year and you are still wrong now. Put it out there and you will find that just about everyone else here will agree.

As for whether you voted for the ROY or not, it does not matter. You opened your mouth claiming to have some insight as a pretense to spout off again about your grievance with Kelly and Val. Now you are backing down because you have no courage and you know you have no case. This is not a world where you have the right to say what you want to without some recourse.


John
 
Wow John, you're seeing a BUNCH of psychiatrists!

And for the record, you brought their names up, not me.

Barbara

onepocketchump said:
Newsflash dear. It's not libel if it's true, and futhermore my "boss" didn't tell me to do anything on these forums. I can guarantee you that when he sees how you have been conducting yourself here that you may find yourself in a lawsuit yet. You are the one who has maligned Kelly Fisher and Valerie Finnie. You are the one who tried to rob Valerie Finnie of the WPBA spots she earned. You are the one who acted in what may very well be a criminal manner during that attempt to steal Valerie's WPBA spots. Your husband is the one who assaulted me and threatened me with physical harm at the Super Billiards Expo. I was nothing but polite to you in email and on the phone. I was respectful to you and to your husband. You both are the ones who turned this around and you are going to get you asses handed to you again if you don't drop it.

So, feel free to go and cry to whomever you want to but keep your personal issues off the air unless you want to get called on them. You were wrong last year and you are still wrong now. Put it out there and you will find that just about everyone else here will agree.

As for whether you voted for the ROY or not, it does not matter. You opened your mouth claiming to have some insight as a pretense to spout off again about your grievance with Kelly and Val. Now you are backing down because you have no courage and you know you have no case. This is not a world where you have the right to say what you want to without some recourse.


John
 
Barbara said:
Wow John, you're seeing a BUNCH of psychiatrists!

And for the record, you brought their names up, not me.

Barbara

For the record dear, this is your quote from above, "Kelly Fisher's behavior while competing on the Regional Tours with Val Finnie may have contributed greatly to this decision. I won't say anything more unless you provoke me."

Apparently, your short term memory and your motor skills are as dysfunctional as your integrity.

John
 
Wow, this one flared up in a hurry. Sounds like there are more issues involved here than just Kelly and the ROY award.

I am not going to close the thread, but I am going to ask that we stop the name calling.

"I don't agree with you and this is why" is fine. "I don't agree with you and you are an idiot" is not.

Mike
 
onepocketchump said:
For the record dear, this is your quote from above, "Kelly Fisher's behavior while competing on the Regional Tours with Val Finnie may have contributed greatly to this decision. I won't say anything more unless you provoke me."

Wow!! I had to say something purposely wrong so you would get something right about me! :rolleyes: :p :D

Barbara
 
John,

Please just tell us your side of the story, since Barbara apparently got cold feet.

-Roger (very very curious)
 
AzHousePro said:
Wow, this one flared up in a hurry. Sounds like there are more issues involved here than just Kelly and the ROY award.

I am not going to close the thread, but I am going to ask that we stop the name calling.

"I don't agree with you and this is why" is fine. "I don't agree with you and you are an idiot" is not.

Mike

Fair enough. Sorry.

John
 
buddha162 said:
John,

Please just tell us your side of the story, since Barbara apparently got cold feet.

-Roger (very very curious)


Okay, here is the very short version.

Valerie Finnie ended the 2005 NEWT Tour season as the number one player. According to the WPBA guidelines this gave her an invite to all the WPBA tour stops in 2006, guaranteed (not paid) spots on tour. Valerie Finnie told the WPBA that she would accept the invitation to the tour for 2006. Valerie was told by the WPBA to inform Barbara Stock, the director of the NEWT tour of her intention to take the spots as well which she duly did via telephone message on Barbara's answering machine.

On the 24th of December while in England for Christmas, Valerie was informed that her spots had been given away to another player. Valerie then contacted Barbara and was told that her message said she would not be taking the spots and that since she was unavailable to confirm the spots were given away to another player. (I am being a little obtuse here with the timeline and the details because I don't want to drag anyone else's name into it nor establish facts that may yet be used legally). Barbara claimed that she clearly heard Valerie say she "won't" be taking the spots and since time was of the essence, according to Barbara, she HAD to make a decision that was irreversible. Although the WPBA said to Valerie that they would accept Barbara's decision to nominate Valerie instead of the other player Barbara refused to budge.

When Valerie came back to the United States in early January she asked her sponsor, Sterling Gaming, to intervene on her behalf. I contacted Barbara immediately via voice mail, email and private messaging through the boards. I received no response at all until we sent a letter threatening legal action. Then and only then did I finally get a phone call to initiate dialog. During this time Barbara played the voice mail that Valerie left and while I heard "will" and not "won't" I conceded to Barbara that I could understand how someone unfamiliar with Valerie's heavy Scottish accent could hear it as "won't."

At this point all Barbara needed to do was to give Valerie the spots and the "mistaken" interpretation could have been erased with no harm, no foul. But Barbara was adamant that she had made her decision and that it was firm and that was that.

During the course of investigation it came out that Barbara felt that Valerie's number one spot was due to Kelly Fisher's participation and "help" on the tour. During further conversation it came out that taking the invitation away from Valerie was a form of punishment and retribution for this perceived collusion.

In the end, Barbara forced me to contact the player who had been given the invitation and that player abdicated her spots for Valerie. Barbara would have rather seen it all end up in court rather than to do the right thing and reverse the mistake she made.

Since then she has had a grudge against me, Kelly Fisher and Valerie Finnie. Her husband accosted me publicly in Valley Forge at the Fury Booth. She has slandered me to mutual aquaintenences in the billiard industry and continues to slander Kelly and Val's reputations as she has done here.

Valerie Finnie has the game to beat any female pool player on the planet at any give time. On the NEWT Tour and other tours she beat many top players. The record shows that there were only one or two places during the NEWT touraments where Kelly could have possibly been of any "help" to Valerie by dumping a match. And IF she did, so what? Kelly has been beaten by a lot of players that are clearly her inferior on the regional tours and the WPBA tour. Did she dump to them? No, she did not, nor did she dump to Valerie. Barbara Stock may feel that Kelly and Valerie colluded on her tour but she never once addressed them about it, she never once mentioned it in any player's meeting, nor was it ever a part of the rules of the tour. Not to mention that such collusion would be nearly impossible to actually prove, it is also a true non-issue. Both players paid their entry fees and as such are allowed to participate or not as they see fit. But, this is not a debate on whether such practice is right or wrong, it is a situation where one promoter siezed on the slimmest of excuses to punish a player severely to satisfy their own sense of justice.

And that is the situation in brief. During the investigation much interesting information was uncovered about how Mrs. Stock conducts her business with the NEWT tour. Apparently the issue with Valerie is not an isolated occurrence so I am confident that it was not an innocent mistake but rather a deliberate act of vengeance.

Because of Barbara's actions, Valerie had had a tremendous amount of added pressure to perform well this past year. Sadly, she has fallen somewhat short of her goals and our expectations. I put the responibility for this added and unneeded pressure squarely on the shoulders of Barbara and Pete Stock. Were it not for their accusations, hurtful actions and hateful comments then Valerie could have started the year on a positive note and perhaps her results would have been different.

As it stands though, Valerie will be on tour this coming year and she will prove that she belongs there. Her fellow professionals know it and her fans do as well.

Sincerely,

John Barton
 
Last edited:
Here's my rebuttal

onepocketchump said:
Okay, here is the very short version.

Valerie Finnie ended the 2005 NEWT Tour season as the number one player. According to the WPBA guidelines this gave her an invite to all the WPBA tour stops in 2006, guaranteed (not paid) spots on tour. Valerie Finnie told the WPBA that she would accept the invitation to the tour for 2006. Valerie was told by the WPBA to inform Barbara Stock, the director of the NEWT tour of her intention to take the spots as well which she duly did via telephone message on Barbara's answering machine.

Try 2004, not 2005.

On the 24th of December while in England for Christmas, Valerie was informed that her spots had been given away to another player. Valerie then contacted Barbara and was told that her message said she would not be taking the spots and that since she was unavailable to confirm the spots were given away to another player. (I am being a little obtuse here with the timeline and the details because I don't want to drag anyone else's name into it nor establish facts that may yet be used legally). Barbara claimed that she clearly her Valerie say she "won't" be taking the spots and since time was of the essence, according to Barbara, she HAD to make a decision that was irreversible. Although the WPBA said to Valerie that they would accept Barbara's decision to nominate Valerie instead of the other player Barbara refused to budge.

Val left a message on my machine that I interpretted as "won't" as well as 20 other people I had let hear the msg. Why did I do this? Because I was unsure why Val would pass on the invited spots until I realized that she would have to come up with $4000 just to play, nevermind the traveling expenses. Anyway, if this was so important to Val, why leave just a phone msg and not talk directly? There was no way I could get a hold of her when she went back to wherever they went. This msg was left on my machine on December 10th, IIRC. It was a Friday.

When Valerie came back to the United States in early January she asked her sponsor, Sterling Gaming, to intervene on her behalf. I contacted Barbara immediately via voice mail, email and private messaging through the boards. I received no response at all until we sent a letter threatening legal action. Then and only then did I finally get a phone call to initiate dialog. During this time Barbara played the voice mail that Valerie left and while I heard "will" and not "won't" I conceded to Barbara that I could understand how someone unfamiliar with Valerie's heavy Scottish accent could hear it as "won't."

John, you started threatening me immediately. There was no any "no response" from me. You harassed me with threatening emails and phone calls to the point where my husband had to get on the phone and tell you to f*ck off. And when I played the message for you, you immediately said that Val's got such a thick accent, it's difficult for even you to understand her.

At this point all Barbara needed to do was to give Valerie the spots and the "mistaken" interpretation could have been erased with no harm, no foul. But Barbara was adamant that she had made her decision and that it was firm and that was that.

I made my decision based on Val's phone msg and I was standing by it.

During the course of investigation it came out that Barbara felt that Valerie's number one spot was due to Kelly Fisher's participation and "help" on the tour. During further conversation it came out that taking the invitation away from Valerie was a form of punishment and retribution for this perceived collusion.

Okay, now you're starting to stray off the truth here. I was not "punishing" or seeking "retribution" for anything. But this "perceived collusion" was observed by a lot of people. I've already gotten pms from others that knew about this.

In the end, Barbara forced me to contact the player who had been given the invitation and that player abdicated her spots for Valerie. Barbara would have rather seen it all end up in court rather than to do the right thing and reverse the mistake she made.

In the end, you harrassed and threatened the other player and bullied her into giving up the spots. I know this for a fact, she forwarded all your threatening emails to me.

Since then she has had a grudge against me, Kelly Fisher and Valerie Finnie. Her husband accosted me publicly in Valley Forge at the Fury Booth. She has slandered me to mutual aquaintenences in the billiard industry and continues to slander Kelly and Val's reputations as she has done here.

John, I think you're pond scum, and my husband only wanted to introduce himself you at VF to let you know that when you threaten me, you also threaten him. There were witnesses. Some even post on this board.

Valerie Finnie has the game to beat any female pool player on the planet at any give time. On the NEWT Tour and other tours she beat many top players. The record shows that there were only one or two places during the NEWT touraments where Kelly could have possibly been of any "help" to Valerie by dumping a match. And IF she did, so what? Kelly has been beaten by a lot of players that are clearly her inferior on the regional tours and the WPBA tour. Did she dump to them? No, she did not, nor did she dump to Valerie. Barbara Stock may feel that Kelly and Valerie colluded on her tour but she never once addressed them about it, she never once mentioned it in any player's meeting, nor was it ever a part of the rules of the tour. Not to mention that such collusion would be nearly impossible to actually prove, it is also a true non-issue. Both players paid their entry fees and as such are allowed to participate or not as they see fit. But, this is not a debate on whether such practice is right or wrong, it is a situation where one promoter siezed on the slimmest of excuses to punish a player severely to satisfy their own sense of justice.

I was told by some TDs older and wiser that there is nothing you can say or do to stop any collusion between players unless it is so blatantly obvious. How one could deduce that, I don't know.

And that is the situation in brief. During the investigation much interesting information was uncovered about how Mrs. Stock conducts her business with the NEWT tour. Apparently the issue with Valerie is not an isolated occurrence so I am confident that it was not an innocent mistake but rather a deliberate act of revenge.

Go on. I would like to know what you alluding to.

Because of Barbara's actions, Valerie had had a tremendous amount of added pressure to perform well this past year. Sadly, she has fallen somewhat short of her goals and our expectations. I put the responibility for this added and unneeded pressure squarely on the shoulders of Barbara and Pete Stock. Were it not for their accusations, hurtful actions and hateful comments then Valerie could have started the year on a positive note and perhaps her results would have been different.

LOL!! That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard for an excuse for a player not to be able to play well.

As it stands though, Valerie will be on tour this coming year and she will prove that she belongs there. Her fellow professionals know it and her fans do as well.

Sincerely,

John Barton


The boss of your company apologized to my husband at VF about your conduct and the inaccurate accusations you made to me. What does that say?

Barbara
 
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