WPBA or mens tours/ Which is better?

jason

jason

Unprofessional everything
Silver Member
After looking at prize winning averages over the last 4 years, I'm not sure the WPBA is any better for the players then the various mens tours around the county.

This is the average income between 2000 and 2003:

Efern Reyes $134,000
Francisco Bustamonte $85,000
Earl Stickland $69,000

Allison Fisher $88,000
Karen Corr $66,000
Helena Thornfelt $32,000
Janette Lee $30,000

What does everyone else think?
 
The thing is though that the Women HAVE a proper tour (though not played every second week). No one said the prize money is better than the men's events, which seem to be mostly events which do not belong to tours.
 
jason said:
After looking at prize winning averages over the last 4 years, I'm not sure the WPBA is any better for the players then the various mens tours around the county.

This is the average income between 2000 and 2003:

Efern Reyes $134,000
Francisco Bustamonte $85,000
Earl Stickland $69,000

Allison Fisher $88,000
Karen Corr $66,000
Helena Thornfelt $32,000
Janette Lee $30,000

What does everyone else think?
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Damn shame the top golfers make more in one hole than pool pros do all year.
 
Yeah I hate to be standing over a 6 foot putt for par on the 18th hole of round 4 and know that if I miss it I will lose $60,000 in prize money. Of course if that happened I would be happy withe the $100K+ I would have been getting. Damn I want to play golf for a living.
 
what men's tour????

the thing is, how much of the men's winnings came from one shot events like the $50,000 challenge of champions at mohican sun? and reyes big payoff in tokyo a few years ago.
 
Actually one of the women pro's has income in the 7 figure range from endorsements. I'm positive none of the American men do (I have no idea what kind of deals the foreign players have). Income from prize money seems fairly paltry for both men and women. Remember these men had to do a lot of globe trotting to make over $100,000 - I suspect their travel expenses probably exceeded their prize money.
 
I am just about positive that none of the American ladies are anywhere near 7 figures with endorsements. There is only one player I can think of who might be bringing in that kind of money and she hasn't done very well on the WPBA tour for a while now. I would be shocked if she was still bringing in anything close to that.

As for the men, I know of one male player that got a 7 figure bonus a few years ago and that had nothing to do with his sponsors. Most of them are not bringing in very much from endorsements though.

Part of the reason that the players don't make much from endorsements is because they think that just wearing a logo for a product should get them a paycheck. People complain when Jeanette wins a big match and say 'Just like Mosconi' on TV. But guess who one of her sponsors is? Yup, Escalade sports who just happens to make a Mosconi line of products. That woman might just know more about marketing than she does about pool. And she knows a lot about pool.

Mike
 
AzHousePro said:
I am just about positive that none of the American ladies are anywhere near 7 figures with endorsements.
Mike
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I am pretty sure you are wrong (I don't think we can inspect anyone's check book, but my source is fairly reliable).
 
With the interests of the players and them being able to make a living at the game, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Mike
 
My source believes dreadfully few players (male or female) make a good living from pool alone (without gambling) - I believe the number 3 was thrown around. Again, I have no way of knowing for sure.
 
I don't think it is that bad. I can think of 3 male players who probably earn enough from tourneys and endorsements to make a living without ever having to gamble. As a matter of fact, two of the three I am thinking of have gone on record as being opposed to gambling.

Mike
 
jason said:
After looking at prize winning averages over the last 4 years, I'm not sure the WPBA is any better for the players then the various mens tours around the county.

This is the average income between 2000 and 2003:

Efern Reyes $134,000
Francisco Bustamonte $85,000
Earl Stickland $69,000

Allison Fisher $88,000
Karen Corr $66,000
Helena Thornfelt $32,000
Janette Lee $30,000

What does everyone else think?
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Well, let's take Allison Fisher. The way I look at it, Allison can plan her whole year around the 7-8 WPBA tournies -- which have fixed dates known a year in advance -- making between $9,000 to $15,000 if she comes in first place; and then plan a lil' summer vacation back to good ole England, fly to Vancouver for her Pool School in August, and make consistent dough at it while having a fun, safe, pleasurable time, no scuffling, no staying at Motel 6, etc.

And if she so inclines, the Taiwanese Pool Association will fly her to Taipei annually for the Amway Cup, put her up in first-class lodgings, enter her with 11 other women in a tournament with a $20,000 first prize. I think Allison has won a couple of those, IIRC.

And she doesn't pay 1 dime in entry fees anywhere.

Add that to her sponsorship and endorsement incomes, appearance fees in Asia and in England, and additional teaching stipends (Charlie's school as guest instructor and other private students, etc.), I would say that you can easily double or triple the amount above.

The top men, on the other hand, have not nearly the clarity of schedule or dependability of prize money. They have to lurch from one tournament to the next that pops up, often with short notice and uncertain prizes, and dropping any personal plans they might have in the process. A good many live from hand to mouth due to frequent gambling reverses or just addictive life stlyes.

All in all, I would have to say that the aspiring top young female pros have a more palatable existence over the top aspiring young male pros, at least in the U.S.

So Sarah or Melissa if you are reading, take heart ;)

And please let us have the benefit of your first-hand perspectives.


Steve
 
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But even if you triple the $88,000, you get $264,000. Lets assume that she makes that much on endorsements and instruction and we add that to her $88,000 in tourney winnings. That would be just under $350,000.

Don't get me wrong, you can definitely feed a family of four with that kind of money. But it is no where near 7 figures.

And last I knew, the WPBA didn't have any sort of retirement fund set up for the players. Someone might want to check with Jean Balukas on that one.

Mike


backpause said:
Add that to her sponsorship and endorsement incomes, appearance fees in Asia and in England, and additional teaching stipends (Charlie's school as guest instructor and other private students, etc.), I would say that you can easily double or triple the amount above.
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AzHousePro said:
But even if you triple the $88,000, you get $264,000. Lets assume that she makes that much on endorsements and instruction and we add that to her $88,000 in tourney winnings. That would be just under $350,000.

Don't get me wrong, you can definitely feed a family of four with that kind of money. But it is no where near 7 figures.

And last I knew, the WPBA didn't have any sort of retirement fund set up for the players. Someone might want to check with Jean Balukas on that one.

Mike
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Point well taken Mike. I was more responding to the thread originator and saying that there are qualitative as well as quantitative considerations to the comparisons.

Quality-of-life issues, IMO, would be as much front-and-center as just aggregate dollar amounts earned, especially for the female pros.

Regarding feeding a "family of four", I would say that less than 1 in 20 male pros would have that worry. The ratio does go a bit higher for the female pros as far as I can tell, but not by much, although I could be wrong.

Steve
 
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this has nothing to do with prize money,,,,in fact, her prize money is miniscule,,,,but i'll bet jennifer chen makes more than anyone,,,TOTAL. she's a media celebrity in taiwan, doing acting etc,,and is sponsored by some technology company amongst others.
 
The first time I noticed the difference between the men and women prize money, I was shocked. I guess I just assumed the women were doing better because they're on TV more and seem to have a solid organization. I do agree with one of the other posters when he said a lot of the men have to make some of their prize money abroad while most of the women are making most of their money here in the US.

I do think the women are in a much better position to move upward in the prize money than the men. They do seem to be gaining on fan support. I watched Jeanette and Karen and then Jeanette and Allison yesterday and the crowd was much bigger than it was a few years ago. If they keep that up, they're bound to move up soon.
 
AzHousePro said:
That woman might just know more about marketing than she does about pool. And she knows a lot about pool.

Mike
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Mike,

You are absolutely right about Jeanettes knowledge of marketing (at least of herself). I've mentioned before my short breakfast meeting with her at the DCC. She knows exactly what has to be done to keep the green flowing now and into the future.
 
Williebetmore said:
My source believes dreadfully few players (male or female) make a good living from pool alone (without gambling) - I believe the number 3 was thrown around. Again, I have no way of knowing for sure.
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i have no way of knowing, but i think i'd be generous if i said players 5-10 makes under $40,000(hinging, like the top three, on one or two tournaments) and 10-20 make under $20,000
 
It's sad to even hear Jean Balukas' name mentioned. Imagine what she could have done for the sport (she had drawing power). It is sad to go to Derby City and see the tons of great players who don't/can't pursue pool full time. If you are one of the ten best players in the world, it would be awful nice to be able to make a good living at it. We have tons of great and potentially great players who don't pursue it because of this. I have no solution.
 
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