wrist snap on draw stroke- ?

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree to a point. Where the thinking diverges is that there are effects at lesser elevations. Dr. Dave offers a gearing english picture using 40% of the offset creating a turn rate that simply walks along the ob surface. Less than that spin rate and the ob experiences cut induced throw. More than that rate and spin induced throw spews the ob more sideways. Gearing english is fairly consistent regardless of vertical spin. So it works for draw, follow and stun shots. It fails on drag shots though, the spin rate is higher and fails to walk along the ob surface on contact. The added force applied with the intention of having forward momentum evaporate, generates a higher than normal spin rate. The table resistance is used to get a penetrating stroke than generates a higher spin rate, yet limits speed on contact.

The high spin rate is the zinger scenario. Adding draw to the shot will allow the shooter to enjoy the benefit of using a firmer stroke, just like in a drag shot. The difference is that a softer draw stroke is possible. The cb comes back sooner than when KD does his zinger. The angle into the rail is closer to the side pocket and the spin imparts more speed because of the steeper rail angle contact. Watch how Effren is able to use that softer stroke giving the spin time to work more on rail contact.

Try this. Using a medium draw stroke action feel the resistance on contact. Now address the ball a like amount above center and using the same penetrating stroke note how the cue ball runs away on contact and the bite feel is less. Now elevate the butt slightly and address the cue ball a touch higher above center with the cue plane passing the same height above the ball core. Driving the ball even that bit towards the bed you can feel the resistance and penetrating bite that Ronnie O looks for in his cue action. You also feel it when you need to apply follow on the cue ball when shooting over a ball at less than 15 °. Try it with about 5” between the Intervening ball and cue ball directly in the way. On sharper shot planes, with balls closer, the table resistance is enough to cause the cue ball to hop slightly at fairly low power. That’s getting more into the swerve realm of elevation.

The effect on the balls is the key factor.

cool. I'd like to see cue angle discussed more beyond "keep it level"
sometimes level doesn't get us what we want
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
By what percentage?

I would guess so small that it's irrelevant, or non existent.

On a good miscue the cb more or less takes off immediately in the opposite direction of tip contact, relating to the force exerted through the cb's center of mass. With a chalked tip, there's more friction at the point of contact, and the cb reacts to that as well, sending it more along the line of the stroke or tip. The actual contact time could be slightly different, or it could be exactly the same, but there would still be a major difference in cb reaction due to the added friction between tip and ball. So...is there a significant percentage difference in contact time?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
So your expert point is not miscuing increases contact time.

FYI, so does playing pool vs. watching TV.
pj
chgo

No, my expert points (plural) included "too much chalk hampers draw shots".

Let me help you learn from my expertise. I know you like experiments and tests:

Hit 10 strong draw shots, two tips below center, over a six-diamond distance between c.b. and o.b., chalking before each shot with a light but even coating of chalk.

Now hit 10 more of the same, chalking the heck out of the cube, grinding into it.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
On a perfect center ball contact? Or on a draw shot as described, say, two tips below center?

Perhaps you can make a chart? I'm not a PhD physicist as you are.
You seem to be saying, if I read your response correctly, that you don't really know the answer.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
You seem to be saying, if I read your response correctly, that you don't really know the answer.

I was asking you to supply your knowledge. Please do not delay on my account.

I do not own a super-camera that shoots frames at thousands-of-a-second. If I did, I wouldn't need to use it to understand why pool chalk was invented, to increase contact time with the cue ball. Are you saying I'm wrong regarding this pool fact?

The difference between Mingaud and most on AZ is he demonstrated pool and answered questions when asked.

"Chalk it up" to experience, I say.
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...pool chalk was invented, to increase contact time with the cue ball.
Chalk was invented to prevent the tip from slipping on the CB surface. Increased contact time is an incidental side effect.
Yes, correct. One implies the other, of course.
But saying increased contact time is the reason chalk was invented (like you did) is like saying the reason we turn on a light is to make the bulb hot - and shows we don't know what we're talking about.

pj
chgo
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
But saying increased contact time is the reason chalk was invented (like you did) is like saying the reason we turn on a light is to make the bulb hot - and shows we don't know what we're talking about.

pj
chgo

Your humility is vastly underwhelming.

I agree, you don't know what you're talking about.

Chalk was invented neither to help the leather adhere better nor to increase contact time. It was invented to play pool better--so there.

See how it reads when you're childish, churlish, to me and others! Is this how you talk to your boss, your peers, your pool teammates?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
If they stubbornly misinform others with their "expertise", yes.

pj
chgo

I do no such thing. My students quickly and vastly improve.

I assumed you'd make a nasty comment when I wrote about increased contact time. Rather than explain to you how that helps with tip slippage, or educate you on how chalk came to be used in our sport, I'll simply ask you to stop trolling me.

And no, you wouldn't speak meanly to your boss or you'd be fired . . .

PS. I speak nicely to you because I'm a born again Christian. What is your excuse for being rude, exactly?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
If you tout your "expertise" while misinforming here, I'll likely correct it (again). Call that what you want.

pj
chgo

I write true facts here--I've noticed that less than 20% of the time, you cite (assumed) facts in evidence regarding my posts. You mostly just hurl insults..

As your fellow (former) jerk in recovery, let me encourage you, I and others will listen to your wisdom more when you are kind (or at least neutral).

I've given you every chance to stop behaving as you did when you were banned. Your choice.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
thankful for this

sean <<-- is here for the "nastiness"

You're thankful that he's nasty?

Or thankful that he is one of the self-appointed Pool Guardians of the Universe, despite the fact that he and the other Guardians are usually nasty, and often, if not always, wrong?

Or are you thankful that he and his co-Guardians keep pushing people off AZ entirely, so that I'm often getting PMs, "Thanks for being kind, if controversial. Those people are horrible people!"

I give thanks, not for PJ's smarmy, rude, wicked, thoughtless insults, but that the Lord Jesus Christ died and rose to forgive his sin (and yours, Sean). Praise HIM! Be thankful for HIM!

Let's be thankful where it counts. Stop trolling, already.
 
Top