Wrist/Stroke Power

[LastTwo]

Sometimes I come across instruction where they say that in order to draw or follow the ball long distances, or to power stroke in general, that your wrist must be loose and you are supposed to 'snap' it on or before impact. I started studying many tapes with many different professional pool players, and I noticed that almost all of them, with the exception of Bustamante don't use loose wrists, and they certainly don't snap their wrists on power shots, except for the break. Almost all of them, including Efren (His wrist may appear loose since it hangs inwards, but after watching it intently, he keeps it VERY still), use very little, if ANY wrist action at all on all shots, including power shots. What I want to know is, where do people get the idea that you should keep your wrist loose, and that you need to snap it for maximum cueball action? I have experimented with my wrist, and I have found that if I keep it STABLE (not tight or loose), table length draws or follow shots are executed more easily, and MUCH more accurately than when I keep my wrist loose or snap it. The problems I've found with having a loose wrist/snapping the wrist are as follows- On power shots snapping the wrist, it seems impossible to snap your wrist in a straight direction. There is generally some twisting and turning involved (very quickly) as your wrist snaps, and as a result my accuracy on the shot decreases by a very large margin. When I keep my wrist loose, but don't snap it on power shots, my wrist bends to the right or to the left, and on the forward stroke it twists inwards. The twist inwards is a natural part of the stroke if your wrist is loose, I've heard from others. With the loose wrist my accuracy was also decreased by a large margin, not only on power shots, but on all shots in general. I found that a loose wrist and snapping my wrist did not give me any improved action on the cue ball on power shots, probably because my accuracy was so poor with it. Tonight right before the poolhall closed I practiced using a stable wrist with a loose grip, and my stroke feels very solid.

I want to find out how many of you use a loose wrist, and do you think that loose/snapping wrist will give you a better power stroke. If so, please explain why.

 

[TheBook]

I have heard players tell others that you have to snap the wrist for a draw shot. I guess they think that by pulling back (snapping) their wrist the cue will thru magical forces pull the cue ball back with it.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I want to find out how many of you use a loose wrist, and do you think that loose/snapping wrist will give you a better power stroke. If so, please explain why.

I don't consider pool to be a power sport, but some tips from power sports can be useful for the break shot or generating power follows, stuns or draws with more control.

I also don't think the wrist should be too loose. It should be firm but not rigid.

In sports requiring power, the common tendency is for athletes to be too tight and to try to power to early, rather than wait for their bodies to reach the strongest positions, and for the muscles to become eccentrically contracted. So when looking for power, try not to tighten everything up, take it easy early and wait until the wrist naturally is about to snap forward, then apply effort.

For more on how to add power to your game read this brief 3 Part Series of articles I wrote:
How to Create Power: Part 1
How to Create Power: Part 2
How to Create Power: Part 3

 

[CaptainJR]

Sometimes I come across instruction where they say that in order to draw or follow the ball long distances, or to power stroke in general, that your wrist must be loose and you are supposed to 'snap' it on or before impact. I started studying many tapes with many different professional pool players, and I noticed that almost all of them, with the exception of Bustamante don't use loose wrists, and they certainly don't snap their wrists on power shots, except for the break. Almost all of them, including Efren (His wrist may appear loose since it hangs inwards, but after watching it intently, he keeps it VERY still), use very little, if ANY wrist action at all on all shots, including power shots. What I want to know is, where do people get the idea that you should keep your wrist loose, and that you need to snap it for maximum cueball action? I have experimented with my wrist, and I have found that if I keep it STABLE (not tight or loose), table length draws or follow shots are executed more easily, and MUCH more accurately than when I keep my wrist loose or snap it. The problems I've found with having a loose wrist/snapping the wrist are as follows- On power shots snapping the wrist, it seems impossible to snap your wrist in a straight direction. There is generally some twisting and turning involved (very quickly) as your wrist snaps, and as a result my accuracy on the shot decreases by a very large margin. When I keep my wrist loose, but don't snap it on power shots, my wrist bends to the right or to the left, and on the forward stroke it twists inwards. The twist inwards is a natural part of the stroke if your wrist is loose, I've heard from others. With the loose wrist my accuracy was also decreased by a large margin, not only on power shots, but on all shots in general. I found that a loose wrist and snapping my wrist did not give me any improved action on the cue ball on power shots, probably because my accuracy was so poor with it. Tonight right before the poolhall closed I practiced using a stable wrist with a loose grip, and my stroke feels very solid.

I want to find out how many of you use a loose wrist, and do you think that loose/snapping wrist will give you a better power stroke. If so, please explain why.

I've tried to help a couple guys on the pool team I use to play on with this. I think where there misunderstanding was with them was 'loose grip vs. loose wrist'. This misunderstanding could be where this snap with a loose wrist could come from. I've been taught that the wrist should be still in the swing and the grip should be loss enough that the stick sort of rocks back and forth in the hand. A loose grip should contribute to a good follow through and that in turn will help with your follow or draw power shots.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I have heard players tell others that you have to snap the wrist for a draw shot. I guess they think that by pulling back (snapping) their wrist the cue will thru magical forces pull the cue ball back with it.

There was a very highly rated snooker coach who used to say you could get big draw (screw back) by flicking your wrist, as you hit the CB, like you are putting backspin on a hula hoop.

One of the most stupid things I've ever heard. He thought this somehow put extra spin on the ball.

But it can work for some, because just by trying to whip their wrist, they actually manage to accelerate the cue...hence hitting the OB harder than they usually do.

 

[Fred Agnir]

I want to find out how many of you use a loose wrist, and do you think that loose/snapping wrist will give you a better power stroke. If so, please explain why.

The cueball only cares where it's hit, and how hard/fast it's hit. Many people (most players?) are able to get a higher speed with less effort using a looser wrist. The extra speed is from the added wrist motion.

Is this bad? I dont' think so. Every sport that I can think of uses the additional wrist motion to get more power/speed with less effort. There will be those that say that "the fewer moving parts, the better." I don't subsrcribe to this. No sport really does. The beauty in athletics and physical excellence is the ability to manage coordinated physical motions. Those that can do this with less effort always seem to excel.

Fred

 

[DaveK]

But it can work for some, because just by trying to whip their wrist, they actually manage to accelerate the cue...hence hitting the OB harder than they usually do.

I agree with this, a proper wrist-snap increases the cue speed, which applys more spin for any given off-center hit. I have experimented with this a great deal when trying to increase my power shots / break shot, while maintaining some accuracy. My observations :

- yes, the wrist can twist/bend/contort in ways not wanted, there are something like 29 bones in the wrist to allow it it's wide range of motion, but with practice you can make the snap pretty straight. To learn a straight snap, I shot without using my elbow (or sholder) joints, only the wrist snap. Do that for a while and you'll get it straight. An opinion - lots of motions in a wide variety of sports require movement of the wrist. I do not believe that the proper motions cannot be learned because you always get unwanted motion. If you get unwanted motions, you need to practice more and learn to feel your movements better. Of course some people are just not capable of knowing their bodies that well, from what I've seen as an old jock.

- for reasons I've never understood, I can use a wrist snap for power follow shots, but have much less success using that stroke for draw , and I've practiced both

- these days I am trying to learn another wrist snap, one in the horizontal plane, to move the cb sideways a bit, and this motion is much more difficult for me at this time in my learning curve. The power wrist snap is a single motion to learn, while the horizontal snap can be done to the left or to the right, and boy are they different motions !

Dave

 

[Fred Agnir]

I don't consider pool to be a power sport, but some tips from power sports can be useful for the break shot or generating power follows, stuns or draws with more control.

The difference between the snooker players and the pool players in the first World Team Championships was the power shots. The snooker players were not able to execute them and still make the pot.

Fred <~~~ said this three or four times before

 

[DaveK]

The cueball only cares where it's hit, and how hard/fast it's hit.

Does not the direction of the hit also influence the cb ? As an example, a center ball hit at 5 mph. If the tip approaches the cb along a line perpendicular (normal) then it is a straight hit and no spin is applied. Now if the tip approaches the center of the cb at an 80 degree angle, it will apply some spin. I believe this to be the basis of the shot I am currently trying to learn (the 'horizontal snapper' ), so this is very relevant to me at this time.

Dave, who barely squeaked out a pass in 3 dimensional vector calculus 20 some years ago, but now finds the odd application of it's concepts, and it ain't anything to do with that Maxwell dude either !

 

[Colin Colenso]

The difference between the snooker players and the pool players in the first World Team Championships was the power shots. The snooker players were not able to execute them and still make the pot.

Fred <~~~ said this three or four times before

What was these snooker player's level of experience in 9-ball?

What level were they at previously at snooker?

From my observation, one thing that often separates the top snooker pros from many of the A grade players is their accurate striking with power. Many good, but not great snooker players, are quite conservative with power.

 

[Fred Agnir]

I have no idea where my post went!!!

What was these snooker player's level of experience in 9-ball?

As with much of Europe, and especially in the UK, there was little. They already had "professional tournaments," but they didn't have the international exposure of today.

What level were they at previously at snooker?

I believe Steve Davis was on the team. Also, in an unrelated event, Hendry was playing pool also. He coudn't break accurately, and couldn't execute the power shots with any consistency either. David Pearson was on the team as well.

In fact, even the other European countries (Germany specifically) didn't have a lot of success with the power shots. Only a few of them ever showed a power stroke with success. Ralf Souquet, then nothing more than a beginner in the world of professional pool was on the German team.

From my observation, one thing that often separates the top snooker pros from many of the A grade players is their accurate striking with power. Many good, but not great snooker players, are quite conservative with power.

It really doesn't matter about top level vs. not top level. Many of these power shots are absolutely standard for B-level pool play, and have been for decades. The fact is that these type of shots aren't part of the snooker-only repertoire on a regular basis. I think snooker-only players may be underestimating the importance of power shots in 9-ball. It certainly has been proven by direct observation. If a player is going to be a player in 9-ball, he must incorporate the power shots.

Fred

 

[nibrobus]

Bustamante don't use loose wrists, and they certainly don't snap their wrists on power shots, except for the break. Almost all of them, including Efren (His wrist may appear loose since it hangs inwards, but after watching it intently, he keeps it VERY still), use very little, if ANY wrist action at all on all shots, including power shots.

I've been lucky enough to watch Efren play live on a few occasions, and his wrist/grip are VERY loose, especially on power shots. If you can get a hold of some Accu-Stats tapes, watch Efren stroke a power shot and you can see him snap his wrist hard on power follow/draw shots. Efren will also snap his wrist on those soft kill shots where the cue ball comes out quick but dies after hitting a rail.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I've been lucky enough to watch Efren play live on a few occasions, and his wrist/grip are VERY loose, especially on power shots. If you can get a hold of some Accu-Stats tapes, watch Efren stroke a power shot and you can see him snap his wrist hard on power follow/draw shots. Efren will also snap his wrist on those soft kill shots where the cue ball comes out quick but dies after hitting a rail.

I dunno about that.
Efren lets the cue go. The cue literally slips from his "grip".
His wrist is relaxed but the power imo in his stroke is the throwing of his cue.
The only player I know who wrists the cue a lot is Gerry The Ghost Watson.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I have no idea where my post went!!!

As with much of Europe, and especially in the UK, there was little. They already had "professional tournaments," but they didn't have the international exposure of today.

I believe Steve Davis was on the team. Also, in an unrelated event, Hendry was playing pool also. He coudn't break accurately, and couldn't execute the power shots with any consistency either. David Pearson was on the team as well.

In fact, even the other European countries (Germany specifically) didn't have a lot of success with the power shots. Only a few of them ever showed a power stroke with success. Ralf Souquet, then nothing more than a beginner in the world of professional pool was on the German team.


It really doesn't matter about top level vs. not top level. Many of these power shots are absolutely standard for B-level pool play, and have been for decades. The fact is that these type of shots aren't part of the snooker-only repertoire on a regular basis. I think snooker-only players may be underestimating the importance of power shots in 9-ball. It certainly has been proven by direct observation. If a player is going to be a player in 9-ball, he must incorporate the power shots.

Fred

Thanks for the feedback Fred!

btw: When I refered to power sports, I wasn't thinking of snooker, but track & field type disciplines, eg. Shot put, javelin, discus, jumping and sprinting. I was a decathlete in my younger days, and coached a national champion in shot put.

 

[nibrobus]

Good point Joey, Efren does let the cue go. I've been watching some old tapes of Efren (Efren vs. Allen Hopkins 1994 Sands Regency) and slo-mo'd some of his stroke shots. He seemed to have a wrist snap on a hard draw stroke back then but he might have changed his stroke some over the past 10 years.

Don't want to hijack this thread but one more thing...Efren's warm up strokes and final backstroke used to be slower and more deliberate 10-12 years ago. Seems to be a lot quicker now, any insight as to why he changed it?

 

[LastTwo]

Good point Joey, Efren does let the cue go. I've been watching some old tapes of Efren (Efren vs. Allen Hopkins 1994 Sands Regency) and slo-mo'd some of his stroke shots. He seemed to have a wrist snap on a hard draw stroke back then but he might have changed his stroke some over the past 10 years.

Don't want to hijack this thread but one more thing...Efren's warm up strokes and final backstroke used to be slower and more deliberate 10-12 years ago. Seems to be a lot quicker now, any insight as to why he changed it?

He may have changed his stroke, I viewed about 10 different tapes of him playing from 1999-present day, saw him play in person a few times, and saw one match of him playing in 1990. His wrist remained stable on all of his shots. What he does is he holds it in the "V" between his thumb and pointer, and on the final executition stroke, most of the time the cue drops down and is held in his fingertips, no longer connected to the "V". It's kind of like a "release" stroke, but there isn't any wrist involved.

Earl Strickland has a huge power stroke, after watching him for a long time he doesn't use his wrist for power shots either. Sometimes he twists it inwards at the end of his follow thru, his does this alot on the break.

 

[nibrobus]

I keep my wrist very loose and limber but I don't ever consciously "snap" it. I know from watching myself on video that my wrist breaks one way on the backswing and the other on the forward swing, but it's purely a result of my relaxation. However, the movement is very slight and could be missed if someone doesn't know what to look for.

I think this is what I was referring to when commenting on Efren's stroke. His wrist movement is very slight and is most likely due to his grip being so relaxed as Tons'O'fun indicated. I have been trying various stroke techniques lately in an attempt to generate more draw/follow with less effort (like Efren does) and it is very helpful hearing how other people apply a power stroke.