WTB: opinions on cue value (Meucci SE-10 vs. custom Sigel cue)

[JB Cases]

The value of a production line cue is pretty subjective especially when you are talking about a Meucci. Meucci has long been a large source of income for cue repair facility's & BTW are now having a portion of their merchandise built "offshore" which will probably only increase the repair work .
About 40-50 % of what you can buy a new one for is a pretty good rule of thumb on a used Meucci and I don't mean catalog price & Hunter hit the nail right on the head about Sigel. For the money you are talking about spending there are a lot of good pool cues to be bought right here on AZB from some really good makers.
I do not mean to offend Meucci owners, to each his own, this is only my opinion developed from many years of repairing pool cues.

It's also quite possible that the quality of Meucci cues could improve by outsourcing the construction.

( happen to know a little about it)

 

[JB Cases]

It's a same really because Bob Meucci is a true pioneer when it comes to cue design. He ought to just license the designs and let other cue makers deal with the quality.

Good luck on your search.

 

[hfelsh]

Ok your wrong, since you want to be corrected. Take out your Camera and take a picture of any Third Edition Blue Book Of Cues that was actually issued. Not a copy you have down loaded off line somewhere, and you will not find her name on the Book. She was fired by Brad Simpson, because she could not handle the job. She is also the reason the Book was delayed for two years or more. Now I am sorry for telling you truth which you may be unaware of, but the truth is the truth even when it hurts some ones pride.

Huh...well, I'll be damned. I admit, I have only seen the book online. I had NOT seen the one you've shown! I stand corrected.

Here is a website you may like, they may have your cue.

http://www.discountpoolcues.com/meuccise-10cues.htm

take care

Thanks, but in my original post, I linked to the Tripod page I made with links and info (granted, some of it is opinion), and Mike's is one of them linked on there. I found his right away. Already talked to him; he has a a matched set of Ebony and Ivory, both brand new/never shot with, both hand-signed by Bob Meucci, and both serial numbered # 150. According to Mike, he wants $5,000 for the pair, or is willing to split the set up up for $2,500 each. IMO, that's WAY too much. I've found another seller, same situation, except that one has # 018 (again, both cues have the same serial number!), and he only wants $2,000 for his set. I'm waiting to hear back if he will split them up.

Funny thing is, to me, Mike's website says that the Meucci SE-2 is worth $1,500+ (not sure how much I believe that), and I found a seller who wants less than a fifth of that price (which I personally think is about what it's worth.)

Thanks for the opinons, that's what I've been looking for. :thumbup:

 

[Ken_4fun]

I agree

There are a lot of cues out there that are better than either cue you were referring to. It's sold now, but JForney had a Richard Harris (Bluegrass) cocobolo nose with 6 points birdseye for $1350. I would recommend looking in that direction.

I recommend several cuemakers for LESS money with a guarentee to at least get your money back.

Meucci or Siegal would be near the bottom.

I guess I just dont understand how people would buy a cue that is a guarentee loss.


Rackrunner, and several others here can help, but if you buy a great playing cue that has strong secondary market, why buy anything else.....

Good luck, your friend in pool,

Ken

 

[hfelsh]

I recommend several cuemakers for LESS money with a guarentee to at least get your money back.

Meucci or Siegal would be near the bottom.

I guess I just dont understand how people would buy a cue that is a guarentee loss.


Rackrunner, and several others here can help, but if you buy a great playing cue that has strong secondary market, why buy anything else.....

Good luck, your friend in pool,

Ken

See, that's not me; I'm not looking to buy the cue for the "potential" of it's resale value. I want the cue because I like it, and I want to play with it - for a long time. I don't buy a car based on what it's "potential resale value" might be if and when I sell it; I don't do that with anything I own. I buy things because I like them, and I want it.

I like the Meucci SE-10; it's one of my favorite designs (regardless of what other people think about Meucci cues.) Yes, there are some other cues I like (a couple of the ones that are for sale in this forum, even), but I want the SE-10, because, well, it's what I want.

"Potential resale value" isn't near the bottom of my list of criteria; it's not even one of the bullet points.

 

[manwon]

Huh...well, I'll be damned. I admit, I have only seen the book online. I had NOT seen the one you've shown! I stand corrected.

Thanks, but in my original post, I linked to the Tripod page I made with links and info (granted, some of it is opinion), and Mike's is one of them linked on there. I found his right away. Already talked to him; he has a a matched set of Ebony and Ivory, both brand new/never shot with, both hand-signed by Bob Meucci, and both serial numbered # 150. According to Mike, he wants $5,000 for the pair, or is willing to split the set up up for $2,500 each. IMO, that's WAY too much. I've found another seller, same situation, except that one has # 018 (again, both cues have the same serial number!), and he only wants $2,000 for his set. I'm waiting to hear back if he will split them up.

Funny thing is, to me, Mike's website says that the Meucci SE-2 is worth $1,500+ (not sure how much I believe that), and I found a seller who wants less than a fifth of that price (which I personally think is about what it's worth.)

Thanks for the opinons, that's what I've been looking for. :thumbup:

Huh...well, I'll be damned. I admit, I have only seen the book online. I had NOT seen the one you've shown! I stand corrected.

I was not trying to be a smart ass, but under the circumstances I do not think she should receive any Credit, especially since she screwed up so bad, and hurt the entire community. Thanks for being a good sport about everything, and again welcome aboard.

Take Care

 

[poolpro]

I really do not see any reason to think that more than 500 of each cue was made.


There is the SE X E AND the SE X I these are very similar but DIFFERENT cues! Notice they even has a distinction in the model number. That is why there are matched sets with the same number.

I would really assume that there were 500 of each cue made, unless there was some sort of proof, not opinion on the matter. I am not saying it is impossible, just very unlikely. I think just about everything on that page is opinion and speculation. Notice that many people have an interest in the "hype" of this cue. Many are offering them for sale.


I am not a fan of Meucci cues in generall. I do think it is strange to fall sooo in love with a cue design that you will ignore all other aspects of the cue. You go on and on about many reasons why it is not worth what people want to sell them for. You acknowledge that the overall quailty and resale value is sub standard, etc, etc. You are going out of your way to knock this cue, while trying to find one at a good price. How happy do you really think you will be EVEN IF YOU FIND ONE AT A GOOD PRICE?

Using your car example, what you are doing is looking for a car in a paticular color while ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE about the car! "It may not run good, and aint worth $%#@, but mannn is that color perty!!"

Just as many different car makers can sell you a green car, Many different cuemakers will offer you similar design characteristics.

Why go out of your way and pay more than you feel something is worth to get something you know you most likely will be disapointed with? The cue you are looking for is one out of 500. You could get a better playing cue with better quality and resale value, and have a one of a kind 1/1 cue. You can have it made exactly to your specs, and even design it with floating points, ebony, etc, etc. If you were to find a good cuemaker, and show him this cue, and say how much you love this style, he will be able to design a cue that is unique, but can incorporate some of the same design elements that you find so appealing in this cue, without any of the other drawbacks. JMO




I am not offering to sell you anything or endorse any specific cuemaker. I am just trying to give some general advice to increase the chance of you making an informed decision and end up happy with your choice. There are many great makers right here that would build you a great cue to fit all of your needs ( design included). You should at least look into a bit. The worst thing is to see the perfect solution after you already have spent $1000 plus on something you regret.

JW

 

[Bigjohn]

Wow...been lurking on this forum for a while now, waiting for my account to be authorized to post. Took a while, but it finally was. :thumbup:

Anyway, I gave up playing several years ago, and recently took it back up again. So, I've been looking for a cue, been checking out the cues for sale here, and saw a couple I was interested in, but nothing thus far that has really "grabbed my interest".

My all-time favorite cue is the Meucci SE-10. Unfortunately, it seems that people who are selling them think they are way more valuable than they really are. I've found a couple for sale, and they're going for roughly double what they're worth. :frown: I even found someone with a Muecci "Factory 2nd" SE-10, which proves that Meucci did not "destroy" the SE-10 cues that were "not up to snuff" as most people claim.

Seems like most people want $1,200 to $1,500 for a Meucci SE-10; heck, I even found a seller who has a "matched set" (one Ivory SE-10-I, one Ebony SE-10-E), and wants $2,500 each, or $5,000 for the set! :yikes: Totally not worth that, IMHO, and I'm not gonna pay that much for a Meucci. :shakehead:

So, after talking with Martyne Bachmen (author of "Blue Book of Cues", who agrees with me on the value of the Meucci SE-10), I've been looking at buying the Sigel MS-89 he has for sale. It's a little heavier than I like, but I believe I can change the weight bolt in it (I'm waiting to hear back from Martyne about that.) I've never heard of Sigel, however, and wanted to know if anyone here had any opinons on it? :scratchhead:

Of course, if anyone here has a Meucci SE-10 (Ebony) they're willing to part with, and aren't asking an outrageous price, I'd consider buying it instead. (I know, highly unlikely, but I had to say it.) :embarrassed2:

She must have a deep voice if you've been talking to her and didn't know she was a woman...and where did you find her?:grin:

 

[hfelsh]

I really do not see any reason to think that more than 500 of each cue was made. There is the SE X E AND the SE X I these are very similar but DIFFERENT cues! Notice they even has a distinction in the model number. That is why there are matched sets with the same number.

I would really assume that there were 500 of each cue made, unless there was some sort of proof, not opinion on the matter. I am not saying it is impossible, just very unlikely. I think just about everything on that page is opinion and speculation. Notice that many people have an interest in the "hype" of this cue. Many are offering them for sale.

According to Meucci (whom I've emailed about it, and actually gotten a response from), there was a TOTAL of 500 SE-10 cues made, not 500 of each. But, since there's "matched sets", that means there has to be *more* than 500 total.

I am not a fan of Meucci cues in generall. I do think it is strange to fall sooo in love with a cue design that you will ignore all other aspects of the cue. You go on and on about many reasons why it is not worth what people want to sell them for. You acknowledge that the overall quailty and resale value is sub standard, etc, etc. You are going out of your way to knock this cue, while trying to find one at a good price. How happy do you really think you will be EVEN IF YOU FIND ONE AT A GOOD PRICE?

I don't think I was "going out my way to knock the overall quality and resale value", merely presenting an opinion that the cue is vastly OVER-valued. It's simply not worth $2,500.

It's a good $600 - $700 cue, *maybe* a hundred or two more for a pristine low-serial model.

Using your car example, what you are doing is looking for a car in a paticular color while ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE about the car! "It may not run good, and aint worth $%#@, but mannn is that color perty!!"

Just as many different car makers can sell you a green car, Many different cuemakers will offer you similar design characteristics.

No, you're over-simplifying my comparison. Frankly, the butt is really just eyecandy; as long as it's straight and weighted to what I like, it could be made of solid gold or PVC plastic, and it'd still play the same. The SHAFT is what's really important. Yes, I know I'm also over-simplifying, but really, I don't feel the need to have a "custom cue" made by someone, when I've already found what I like, and I'm searching for it. The fact that you don't like it, well, that's your right.

Why go out of your way and pay more than you feel something is worth to get something you know you most likely will be disapointed with? The cue you are looking for is one out of 500. You could get a better playing cue with better quality and resale value, and have a one of a kind 1/1 cue. You can have it made exactly to your specs, and even design it with floating points, ebony, etc, etc. If you were to find a good cuemaker, and show him this cue, and say how much you love this style, he will be able to design a cue that is unique, but can incorporate some of the same design elements that you find so appealing in this cue, without any of the other drawbacks.

I'm *not* "going out of my way and paying more than something is worth"; if I were, I'd have bought the SE-10 Ebony from Mike for $2,500 (which I'm not doing.) As I've said before, I do not care what the "resale" value of a cue is. I like what I like. I don't want a "custom cue", nor do I want to design one. I don't feel the need nor do I want to have a "one-of-a-kind 1/1 cue" made by so-and-so. It seems that is the prevailing attitude here on this forum, but that's not me. I don't care who made the cue; I really don't care if it might be worth $10,000 or $10 in 2 or 10 years.

I've seen a couple of cues on here (one of which was posted just yesterday) for several thousand dollars; I've looked at the pics and said "no way in HELL would I pay $500 for that, much less $5,000." And yet there are dozens of replies saying "what a stunning cue!" When I read those, all I can think of is "gee, they must need new glasses or they just have terrible taste." :shakehead:

As I said, I like what I like. Going back to the car example, sure, I could build my own, and it would be unique; heck, I could even get a kit car that is a virtual replica of some other car, and then "customize" it to my liking. But I don't want to do that, either. I like the Meucci SE-10. You don't have to. I'm not buying it for you.

I am not offering to sell you anything or endorse any specific cuemaker. I am just trying to give some general advice to increase the chance of you making an informed decision and end up happy with your choice. There are many great makers right here that would build you a great cue to fit all of your needs ( design included). You should at least look into a bit. The worst thing is to see the perfect solution after you already have spent $1000 plus on something you regret.

But I don't want that. It really seems that everyone here on this board is all about the "custom cue", and yet, I don't care for 95% of them. There's a couple for sale on here that I'm considering buying, but like you said - I'd hate to buy it, then find the SE-10 I want a few days/weeks/months later, and have already spent $1000 on something I'll regret.

Ergo, I can wait, and keep looking. I'm in no rush.

She must have a deep voice if you've been talking to her and didn't know she was a woman...and where did you find her?:grin:

It was email, not actually talking on the phone or in person. I emailed her from the website, chalkers.com

 

[poolpro]

Okay, just trying to be helpful.



It sounds like you have already made up your mind firmly to buy it. What I find interesting is that you say you love the design, question the numbers of how many were made, but then go on to say that the rev 2 has the same design, but is less desireable because it is not a limited edition cue. You could have the exact look you want for the aprox price you want, but you WANT the limeted edition. Then you say that it really was not produced in the quantity stated, and therefore does not justify more money. Also, you mentioned having the sigel 1/1 and seemd to think that was a good thing, but now it isn't.



Really it sounds like you want the cue, and do buy into the hype, but do not want to pay the going rate. I wonder how much your outlook will change if you actually owned the cue. It makes me think of dealing with a pawnshop. You walk in with an item and they trash it, and say "I can buy these all day long, for $100, it is not worth what you are asking". You sell it, walk out, walk right back in, and he says " I have a great deal here, this is a very rare item, I will sell it for $500. What a deal!" You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

It seems like you are attempting to start a campaign that these cues are overpriced so that a seller may agree and sell it to you for what you are willing to pay.



Regardless of what anyone or any book says. An item IS worth what it will bring on an open market. It is worth what someone is willing to sell it for as long as someone else is willing to pay that same amount. One isloated sale way above or way below the market value will not change the value of an item. If you found that cue for sale for $50 it does not mean it is only worth $50. Likewise, if you find a guy willing to spend $5000, it does not elevate the value. The two previous buyers would have the same end result when trying to resell it.


Also, just because you personally do not want to pay market value, does not change its value. The fact is you have looked very thoroughly and spent a lot of time researching this cue. You ARE having a hard time finding this cue for sale for $600-700. You are finding them, though at a higher price. I thought it strange that you DID find one for $700, then went on to say that you would then only pay $600.

I personally would never pay more than $200 for any meucci, but again I know that does not change the fact that they will bring more from other people. My opinion has no effect on the market value. Just as your opinion will not make this cue worth less. You will have to continue to search and search, and wait and wait, OR pay the money that people are asking.


I had a similar situation when I was looking for my BK2. I knew I wanted one. I was absolutely going to buy one, but did not want to pay what the going rate was. I checked prices everywhere, and they were all aprox the same, which was more than I wanted to pay. My patience payed off, and I eventually found the cue for about half of the going rate. The difference is that there are a ton of BK2's around. They are a popular currently made item, it was just a matter of time untill sombody need the money more than the cue. The BK2's are not overpriced at all, just more than I felt I wanted to pay. So I could wait, and take my chances or pay up what they are going for.

Sounds like the same choices that you now have.

 

[hfelsh]

Okay, just trying to be helpful.

No, I understand. My apologies if I came across harsh. I've had a long day.

It sounds like you have already made up your mind firmly to buy it. What I find interesting is that you say you love the design, question the numbers of how many were made, but then go on to say that the rev 2 has the same design, but is less desireable because it is not a limited edition cue. You could have the exact look you want for the aprox price you want, but you WANT the limeted edition. Then you say that it really was not produced in the quantity stated, and therefore does not justify more money.

Actually, I *would* buy the REV-2, except I don't want a white cue. Ergo, that's why I'm looking for the Ebony SE-10, not the Ivory one.

Also, you mentioned having the sigel 1/1 and seemd to think that was a good thing, but now it isn't.

That's actually because of the comments here in this thread, as well as multiple PMs I've received about it. I've also gotten word from Martyne about it; she's not allowed to sell it until the courts allow her to (if ever.) Long story, but it's related to the news article at the bottom of the Tripod page.

Really it sounds like you want the cue, and do buy into the hype, but do not want to pay the going rate. I wonder how much your outlook will change if you actually owned the cue. It makes me think of dealing with a pawnshop. You walk in with an item and they trash it, and say "I can buy these all day long, for $100, it is not worth what you are asking". You sell it, walk out, walk right back in, and he says " I have a great deal here, this is a very rare item, I will sell it for $500. What a deal!" You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Uh, no. if I owned it, and if I were to then subsequently sell it, I'd sell it for what I believe it's worth, which is what I'd be willing to pay for it. I never said I wanted to buy one for a low price, then sell it for a higher price.

It seems like you are attempting to start a campaign that these cues are overpriced so that a seller may agree and sell it to you for what you are willing to pay.

You're entitled to your opinion. I've already found one where the seller is asking $1,000. I still feel that's slightly too much, and said I'd go $800. He hasn't replied back yet. But I do not feel it's worth the $2,500 Mike thinks it's worth. :shakehead:

Also, just because you personally do not want to pay market value, does not change its value. The fact is you have looked very thoroughly and spent a lot of time researching this cue. You ARE having a hard time finding this cue for sale for $600-700. You are finding them, though at a higher price. I thought it strange that you DID find one for $700, then went on to say that you would then only pay $600.

Uh, I never said that. The cheapest one I've found thus far is a grand. Don't know where you saw that or how you got that idea, but that's incorrect, I never said I would "only pay $600".

If I found an Ebony SE-10 for $700, I'd own it already.

 

[poolpro]

Okay, I misread something on the page you posted. I kinda skimmed it, and did not really read it thoroughly. My fault.


I also did not realize that the rev 2 was only available in white.


It just seemed like you had a lot of contridictions going on. About the pawn shop comment, I did not mean to imply that you intended to resell it, ONLY that your point of view regarding value may be changed depending what side of the sale you were on. That maybe once you actually owned it, all of a sudden it would become highly collectable again in your opinion. I have seen this kinda thing happen often. I see 2 guys haggling over the price of a cue, and the buyer going on and on about how the seller is overvaluing it, etc. And as soon as the sale is done , they start bragging to everyone how much the cue is worth way more than they paid. I felt that that was what you were up to. I mean you have a VERY detailed (7 points and more ) case for the cue not being worth as much as it is being presented as, all the while saying how very much you would love to have it.

The problem is, you are kinda at a disadvantage here. No matter how you figure it, there will be less and less of these cues in great condition as more time passes. Opportunities to buy them will get less and less. That is what sellers of these cues are counting on. If you just wanted an old meucci, you could have your pick of very inexpensive options, but you have set your sight on exactly one model. If you really want this one, you may have to suck it up, and pay the going rate.

I had something similar recently. I love jackson guitars. I have been looking for a specific catalog for awhile (from 1991). I passed on one ine the past and started to regret it as time went by, because I wasn't seeing any more for sale anywhere. I finally did see a collection of them including the one I wanted on ebay. I bid it up higher than I figured anybody would go, and I did not catch the end of the auction. I got outbid at the very end. I had to contact the winning bidder and offer to buy just the one I wanted. I really would have liked to have all of them though. I ended up paying about as much for the one catalog as he did for the whole lot. I do not regret doing it though( I just regret not bidding up higher in the first place). I ended up getting what I wanted, and was not willing to let another chance to have it be missed. I just had to suck it up and pay what was being offered or take my chances on waiting for another chance which may or may not have been cheaper. The time and hassle that I do not have to invest in the future was worth the slightly inflated price.

Just my take

 

[JB Cases]

Not to go off on a Meucci love fest or anything but as far a cue to play with goes there have been plenty of pro tournaments and world championships won by players using Meucci cues. Some people have Meuccis that are 20-30 years old and still in great condition. (rare I know)

It's like a job; in most surveys on what people like about a job salary is not in the top five of people's reasons for holding a particular job.

Meucci got where they were in popularity through innovative design. The dropped off where they were through a decrease in quality and customer service.

They could come back - who knows? It will take a lot for dealers trust Meucci again. By all accounts though they sell fairly well through some outlets. I still think that they have some of the best designs - stuff that other cuemakers either can't think of or are afraid to try because it's too far from the "norm".

As for whether a cue will lose it's value or not - well, resale value is a very tricky thing and what is hot today isn't hot tomorrow. I know plenty of folks who can't get half of retail for a Tim Scruggs in some areas and yet can get 80% of the new value of a "Players" cue in the same area. Some cues appreciate for good reason and some don't. At the end of the day the "sticker price" doesn't matter when you want to turn tangible things into cash. It's whatever the market will bear at the time you are trying to sell.

If the thing you want gives you a lifetime of enjoyment then it's priceless to you.

 

[circlejerks]

meucci se 10

hi !!!
i have a meucci se 10, number 390 if u r intrested....

 

[zi666e]

How much....

I have meucci se X, #390, how much are u willing to pay,

 

[RRfireblade]

Dudes , this thread is like 2 years old.

 

[DJRC]

I have the Meucci S.E. X E Cue! Make Me An Offer! I will post pics tomorrow 1/18/2012 or if you want call me RC 770-688-7102. Thanks!