Yen Makabenta's Face Is Back On The Frontpage

This was posted in matchroomsportforums by a user called sputnik. It deoesnt seem like he is posting here, so I take the liberty of copy / paste.
Interesting stuff and perhaps enlightening for a few:

At last, WPA has made an effort in looking into the Philippine domestic conflict in pool. It is flattering that Mr. Andersen's media statement shows concern to Philippine pool (akin to the Pope addressing issues of a parish church).

On BSCP's side, a truce is the best that they can hope for because things are definitely not going their way. I will not be surprised if they are now seeking channels to fix their mess for them. They have become an object of a senate investigation and they now have a law suit in their hands. They also have second rate players in Philippine standards.

BMPAP on the other hand has heavy and steady momentum on their side. To those international organizers and players who, over the past decades, have been used to talking to Putch Puyat as the go-to person in Manila, they know that BSCP (before assimilating with Raya) should not be a problem because Quinny de Tagle (then head of BSCP) knew their mandate. Puyat never tried to wrestle APBU accreditation away from BSCP because de Tagle was within scope.

But today, due to the splinter, the lone factor that BMPAP does not have, and is being used against them, is APBU accreditation. It would be a perfect world if BMPAP was accredited by APBU. Unfortunately, BMPAP is a professional association. Actually, even if they were amateure, BMPAP does not need it if BSCP behaves according to what it is mandated to do. This is why BMPAP has never attempted to wrestle APBU or NSA accreditation from BSCP though another amateur group.

Mr. Andersen seems to confuse BSCP with Raya sports. Raya is a competition of BMPAP in business. But because there is what was always denied as conflict of interest, the actions of Raya top honcho Yen Makabenta is translated as actions of BSCP top honcho Yen Makabenta.

WPA and all the other billiard personalities outside the country should make an extra effort to dissect this deception. Raya Sports is not BSCP, and APBU accreditation should be examined because BSCP is allowing Raya Sports to make use of this accreditation in ways that are threatening the future of world pool if immitated by other countries.

If there is non-cooperation in the form of player participation in rival factions, it is an issue between Raya and BMPAP. BSCP should have nothing to do about it because it is Raya who is whipping up the tournaments and not BSCP. But because Makabenta is confusing everybody with Raya's parasitic relationship with BSCP, even WPA is giving importance to a misconstrued notion that Raya and BMPAP are not competitors and that BMPAP is a renegade group against BSCP.

This is why there is no respect given to BSCP by majority of the top players - including Putch Puyat, who is too familiar to international organizers. Because of the deception that Makabenta and company tried to manipulate others with, BSCP is not anymore seen as a credible organization.

BSCP NSA/APBU accreditation has been used in many self-serving instances already. The Pagulayan case clearly happened because of indiscriminate use of power and their player Jeff De Luna replaced Alex in the Guinness tour instead. Guiness saw nothing wrong with Alex and in fact talked about making him the tournament's ambassador after reinstating him. It is on record that BSCP did not submit a fair player list for the Qatar tournament. These, and a few more concerning domestic issues show that BSCP does not deserve the noble affiliation with WPA.

If Makabenta and company were out of BSCP, this domenstic situation would never have happened even if Raya Sports stands as a business rival to BMPAP. Even if Makabenta's gaul can declare again and again that there is no conflict of financial interest, Mr. Andersen's statement will lead us to find out that there is indeed a conflict of interest. At first, it will seem like it is a mere use of arrogant power. But ultimately, decisions with conflicts of interests concern financial returns as consequences.

Mr. Andersen should reprimand BSCP through APBU for this and APBU should demand the Philippine Sports Commission/Philippine Olympic Commission to overhaul or replace the accredited APBU representative of the country. I am sure that Mr. Cojuangco can whip up a more transparent organization and accredit them as an NSA in one week.

WPA should reprimand BSCP for putting the intetgrity of WPA's realm (which extends to the Philipines) in question by having its accreditation through APBU be used with such blatant arrogance. BSCP is not making APBU nor WPA look good and something has to be done from within the hirarchy of this respected pool kingdom.

WPA should let the rivalry in business between Raya Sports and BMPAP stay healthy. Even BSCP should stay away from this competition. International organizations, stables and players should examine who is the credible outfit, go with it, and book their flights for the tournament that they have chosen. It is as simple as that. Keep APBU accreditation out of this matter because competition in business is the healthiest thing that ever happend to Philippine Billiards. Everybody knows who is on top in terms of players, international exposure experience, funding, sharp business sense, and integrity.

If, as Mr. Andersen had cited, BSCP does not give BMPAP a clean bill of health to get their tournament going because it is not in good standing with BSCP, you can be sure that BSCP and all its characters and personalities will be sued to the hilt for it. BMPAM has not done anything unfair, illegal nor immoral to deserve repercusions of a BSCP blackmail using accreditation. Mr. Andersen should realize that it is exactly this power that BSCP has been having Raya enjoy: APBU and NSA accreditation at the expense of fairness domestically and at the expense of respect for the WPA organization.

With all due respect, this is my personal opinion.
 
I would just like to share with you some of the text messages that our filipino pool players get from anonymous people...some were written in filipino but let me translate it for you guys:
1) "Who made the statement of Efren Reyes against BSCP? It is not credible because he called BSCP/Raya as incompetent and lazy. He is good in playing pool but what does he know in running an organization or tournament? Efren, just play and do not meddle in things you have no knowledge of. "
2) When Alex Pagulayan won World Pool Masters last May 2008, instead of congratulatory words. this was what they sent him and the public:
" Before we get dizzy by the wins of Alex Pagulayan in World Pool Masters, remember: a) Only 16 players joined.
b) Players were invited.
c)Our local newspaper is wrong, this is not a world title.
3) This message was sent sometime in May...and for me personally, one of the most tasteless text message ever from "anonymous people". Here it goes...
"You like Guinness? World 9 Ball and World 10 Ball? Qatar Open? China Open? Philippine Pool Tour? National Open? DIE OF ENVY!!!! What do you think of us, crazy? YOU ARE ALL STUPID AND BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!! You allowed yourselves to be fooled by "Prostitute Puyat" and "Hannibal Mariano" and Edwin "Long Chin" Reyes. So now, settle with small time tournaments of nightclub associations, and fake and not credible Villard Cup. There is also a gay bar tournament for all of you. Poor Villar, cheated by hustlers and con men!!!"
4) Here is another one:
" You are not only blind, mute and deaf. You are all stupid, and suffering from severe envy . You got no sponsors!! We have San Miguel, Smart, Globe, Unilab, PAGCOR. We have national coverage in ABS CBN channel 23 and international tv coverage in TFC in the U.S. Europe and Middle East. MAY YOUR INNARDS AND BLADDER EXPLODE DUE TO ENVY.!!!

Lately, when they learned that there is a possibility of the World 9 Ball happening in the Philippines once more, these "anonymous people" started bombarding our cel phones with various messages again, ranging form curses, to name calling, to threats of banning BMPAP players in all WPA events, etc, etc.
Anyway, just want to share with you a glimpse of the personalities of these "anonymous people". They are quiet in forums because, maybe, they want to project decency and poise, but they make up to us in text messages.:)
 
A measure of ignorance can be seen from people who judge something from a far vantage point. Calling something as "black" or "white", all the while lacking vital info, is a mark of somebody who's impatient and lacking in maturity to be a judge all together.

The lack of somebody here speaking on behalf of the otherside should not be taken by forumers here as a sign of "forum-illiteracy". Perhaps it is becoz they think that the matter is supposedly to be contained on in-house? And further damage can be avoided without bringing unnecessary, extra attention to the Filipino people, especially when put right in the middle of the firefight are the great Filipino players themselves!

Bandido, for all his passion for the sport, is a good man, a great cuemaker and somebody who definitely deserves a niche of his own in Philippine pool history. At the very least...he is in my book.

However, sometimes (again this is my opinion) he gets a little too carried away with his emotions and becomes too sensitive when it comes to Philippine pool. So much so that with the current cause he is firmly fighting for, he would have a tendency to blow up a statement or two. Hey, the guy's human! It happens to the best of us. And with Bandido's credibility, it is easy to understand how a lot of people can be easily swayed to a fury with his words.

But that in itself is an undesirable effect.....the operative word being "fury".

And with all the people "furious" with this person and the next guy, the thought of FINDING A SOLUTION to the initial problem is lost! All that remains is a mindless crowd, who forget about being sensible and patriotic, and are hellbent on making life miserable for the opposing few! All the while, unwittingly sacrificing those in between, who are the very essence and people of what they were all initially fighting for!

I agree with Jerry in saying that AZB isn't supposed to be used for name-calling and other slurs. I believe Bandido was hit first with the name-calling tactics. But I also told him (Jerry) that Bandido is only reacting to some prior name-calling by the other party. Again, another understandable reaction from a human being. I think it would only be fair for Bandido to be this way cause he's the one actually getting all the sh|+ first hand. And only HE can call it as HE sees it. But people are starting to call it as Bandido sees it simply becoz Bandido says so!

I just find it funny when people start repeating what he's saying from a thousand miles away, and stating it as if it was their "own" opinion from him (Bandido)! Those are his opinions! See for yourself then form your own. Don't take all he says and tell it as if it was your own.

My advice to people like that, come over here and find out for yourself what's really the cause of all this. Don't derive your judging opinions simply out of one man's experience coz this is MORE SERIOUS than you think! Then again, looking at it from a different angle, it may not be as serious as you thought!

Yes, there's something definitely wrong here. And I'm afraid we, as a nation, just isn't mature enough to settle it within ourselves that we hafta draw attention to ourselves from the international pool community.

It's actually embarrassing for me as a Filipino!

All these names in contention; Mariano, Fajardo, Makabenta, Puyat, Sy, Chua do these names ring any bells for most international pool enthusiasts? I'll bet more than half of the people reading this post wouldn't know these names prior to all this Filipino trouble! BUT these are the names most prominent and powerful in this fiasco!

In all fairness, the aformentioned names are all contributary to good and bad things in Philippine pool. But now, each side is piously working to expose the otherside's "bad" contributions instead of simply remembering the good and try to work it out.(The following names are those they have supported whether as a united body or individual.)

Now, how about the names; Reyes, Bustamante, Alcano, Pagulayan, Orcullo, Gabica, Corteza? Recognize any of them? 'Course you do! Now these are the true pillars of Filipino pool! NOT THE BSCP NOR THE BMPAP!

Long after either organization has expired, the Filipino poolplayer will still be there bringing home the bacon! Believe you me!

All this mud-slinging back and forth will only make reparations harder for both parties instead of helping to find a solution. By-standers, onlookers or what we call back here as "Uzi's" (usisero's) should have no business helping with the mud-slinging. If they want to do something at all, it should be for a reconciliation, or atleast say a prayer for such.

Let Bandido bring out what he deems necessary. And should someone from the otherside do the same, so be it. But let's not take sides and gang-up on one here on the internet forums. In these forums, it's easy to simply blurt out anything under the sun with minimal fear of the actual veracity of your info and it's consequences.

You really wanna make a difference....stop reading this...get off your pc.....call up your chosen side or both and ask them how you can help make it better!




PS- Let me clue you in...writing in these forums degrading either camp DOES NOT HELP!
Shame be to you if you're Filipino and insist to continue on like this just becoz you don't like one side. It's not about liking either one or anyone. It's about doing what's best for everybody concerned. Para kay Manong Efren!
 
JAM said:
I know where you are coming from. :smile:

I too felt just like you about an American pool organization at one time. I thought it was corrupt and practiced discrmination. The organization was not managed well, IMHO, and it definitely was not transparent. It did not treat all members equal either.

I had no problem voicing my opinion about this pool organization at the time, but as time went on, I came to say the Serenity Prayer. The organization eventually shot itself in its own foot, and the damage is done.

Sometimes things happen that you have no say in or power to prevent, and you can only sit back and hope that the offending party puts the noose around their own neck(s).

There is some truth to what I wrote to keep your enemies close to your heart. In the end, the good guys will win. Sometimes it just takes longer than we'd like. :wink:

JAM
Click to expand...

ms. jam..for us who purely loves pool , it's so much injustice to see yen and his cohorts tryto pull this diabolical scheme of trying to put into subjection the phil. pro players and be a dictator....

never mind mismanagement..i can take that..but a scheme to to put into subjection the pro pool players in the phil. ...that is too much to swallow...and that is how all phil. pro players feel so strongly...

orherwise reyes and co. who never cared so much at all for anything other than playing pool would have never be involved with this fiasco...

we all see it but some choose to go along this wicked people...
 
Darth-Pinoy said:
A measure of ignorance can be seen from people who judge something from a far vantage point. Calling something as "black" or "white", all the while lacking vital info, is a mark of somebody who's impatient and lacking in maturity to be a judge all together.

The lack of somebody here speaking on behalf of the otherside should not be taken by forumers here as a sign of "forum-illiteracy". Perhaps it is becoz they think that the matter is supposedly to be contained on in-house? And further damage can be avoided without bringing unnecessary, extra attention to the Filipino people, especially when put right in the middle of the firefight are the great Filipino players themselves!

Bandido, for all his passion for the sport, is a good man, a great cuemaker and somebody who definitely deserves a niche of his own in Philippine pool history. At the very least...he is in my book.

However, sometimes (again this is my opinion) he gets a little too carried away with his emotions and becomes too sensitive when it comes to Philippine pool. So much so that with the current cause he is firmly fighting for, he would have a tendency to blow up a statement or two. Hey, the guy's human! It happens to the best of us. And with Bandido's credibility, it is easy to understand how a lot of people can be easily swayed to a fury with his words.

But that in itself is an undesirable effect.....the operative word being "fury".

And with all the people "furious" with this person and the next guy, the thought of FINDING A SOLUTION to the initial problem is lost! All that remains is a mindless crowd, who forget about being sensible and patriotic, and are hellbent on making life miserable for the opposing few! All the while, unwittingly sacrificing those in between, who are the very essence and people of what they were all initially fighting for!

I agree with Jerry in saying that AZB isn't supposed to be used for name-calling and other slurs. I believe Bandido was hit first with the name-calling tactics. But I also told him (Jerry) that Bandido is only reacting to some prior name-calling by the other party. Again, another understandable reaction from a human being. I think it would only be fair for Bandido to be this way cause he's the one actually getting all the sh|+ first hand. And only HE can call it as HE sees it. But people are starting to call it as Bandido sees it simply becoz Bandido says so!

I just find it funny when people start repeating what he's saying from a thousand miles away, and stating it as if it was their "own" opinion from him (Bandido)! Those are his opinions! See for yourself then form your own. Don't take all he says and tell it as if it was your own.

My advice to people like that, come over here and find out for yourself what's really the cause of all this. Don't derive your judging opinions simply out of one man's experience coz this is MORE SERIOUS than you think! Then again, looking at it from a different angle, it may not be as serious as you thought!

Yes, there's something definitely wrong here. And I'm afraid we, as a nation, just isn't mature enough to settle it within ourselves that we hafta draw attention to ourselves from the international pool community.

It's actually embarrassing for me as a Filipino!

All these names in contention; Mariano, Fajardo, Makabenta, Puyat, Sy, Chua do these names ring any bells for most international pool enthusiasts? I'll bet more than half of the people reading this post wouldn't know these names prior to all this Filipino trouble! BUT these are the names most prominent and powerful in this fiasco!

In all fairness, the aformentioned names are all contributary to good and bad things in Philippine pool. But now, each side is piously working to expose the otherside's "bad" contributions instead of simply remembering the good and try to work it out.(The following names are those they have supported whether as a united body or individual.)

Now, how about the names; Reyes, Bustamante, Alcano, Pagulayan, Orcullo, Gabica, Corteza? Recognize any of them? 'Course you do! Now these are the true pillars of Filipino pool! NOT THE BSCP NOR THE BMPAP!

Long after either organization has expired, the Filipino poolplayer will still be there bringing home the bacon! Believe you me!

All this mud-slinging back and forth will only make reparations harder for both parties instead of helping to find a solution. By-standers, onlookers or what we call back here as "Uzi's" (usisero's) should have no business helping with the mud-slinging. If they want to do something at all, it should be for a reconciliation, or atleast say a prayer for such.

Let Bandido bring out what he deems necessary. And should someone from the otherside do the same, so be it. But let's not take sides and gang-up on one here on the internet forums. In these forums, it's easy to simply blurt out anything under the sun with minimal fear of the actual veracity of your info and it's consequences.

You really wanna make a difference....stop reading this...get off your pc.....call up your chosen side or both and ask them how you can help make it better!




PS- Let me clue you in...writing in these forums degrading either camp DOES NOT HELP!
Shame be to you if you're Filipino and insist to continue on like this just becoz you don't like one side. It's not about liking either one or anyone. It's about doing what's best for everybody concerned. Para kay Manong Efren!
Click to expand...

it seems to me that you are one that is knowledgable about all these matters...

just to maybe clarify to you ..all those pillars of pool you mentioned-those guys are BMPAP...and BMPAP was created as a reactionary effort to possibly prevent yen and cohorts from subjecting phil. pro pool payers to their ,what i call as ,"diabolocal" pool scheme...

these 'PILLARS OF POOL" have seen it and so they're fighting it..

now as far as your statement of stop reading and calling your chosen side to ask how you can help..i think you are naive..try that see what happens...

and once again,,this is the forum where one opinion can be expressed and discussed...

i have nothing to be ashamed of... i am not writing these to degrade one side because i do not like them....do you understand english...

it's not about liking and not liking....i am writing these neutrally as someone not taking any side...and i see the evil of yen and cohorts

( i wonder if you really know all the facts here--you are saying let's do this for effie's sake--well i guess you really don't know what you are talking about....reyes and co. are fighting these monstous and diabolical imposition to them by yen and cohorts...

you do not make sense..you're trying to sound like peaceful and smart but you have missed the whole point...you sound stupid and naive
 
IF they would really like to solve this problem... bscp should stop sending text messages woofing at bmpap
 
Those text messages are horrible, yes. They really should stop doing that. I get them on a daily basis as well. As much as I hate them, I choose to suffer them just to be able to get some kind of pulse from the BSCP side.


[q]just to maybe clarify to you ..all those pillars of pool you mentioned-those guys are BMPAP...and BMPAP was created as a reactionary effort to possibly prevent yen and cohorts from subjecting phil. pro pool payers to their ,what i call as ,"diabolocal" pool scheme...[/q]

I am aware of them being BMPAP. I have also talked with most of them, personally. I still do from time to time to get their opinions on all this. And to quote one of the mentioned WPC champs during the initial onset of these problems..."Ako, laro lang naman talaga dapat eh. Syempre trabaho lang. Pero sabi kasi ni Boss eh...syempre dito ako. Tutal marami naman kami dito. At kung saan si Boss, dun ako. Dito sya sa BMPAP...dito rin ako." translation: "Me, I just wanna play. Of course it's what I do. But it's what (my) Boss wants...so here I am. Besides, there's a lot of us here. Where the Boss is, I am there. He's here at the BMPAP...so am I."

And in not so many words, a lot of the BMPAP players share the same sentiment. I could safely say that no less than 95% of the Phil's best players are with the BMPAP. Certainly the top-pros are. But that doesn't mean they immediately share the same sentiments and intentions as those of the top BMPAP protagonists. Most of them are just "going with the flow" of whomever is managing them. Again, understandably, a human act.




[q]now as far as your statement of stop reading and calling your chosen side to ask how you can help..i think you are naive..try that see what happens...[/q]

I'd rather be naive and keep trying/hoping for the best, rather than continue on being part of the problem and making it worse.




[q]and once again,,this is the forum where one opinion can be expressed and discussed...[/q]

Once again an abused excuse of freedom of speech.




[q]....do you understand english...
... i wonder if you really know all the facts here--you are saying let's do this for effie's sake--well i guess you really don't know what you are talking about....reyes and co. are fighting these monstous and diabolical imposition to them by yen and cohorts...
...you do not make sense..you're trying to sound like peaceful and smart but you have missed the whole point...you sound stupid and naive[/q]

Again the very kind of reaction and train of thought that definitely makes this problem even worse. And to think that it isn't really even pool-problem but a personal and political one between the warring factions! Jeez!



Boy (or Girl, whichever the case may be) I don't know where you're coming from? I can't understand why someone who can say they support/love Philippine pool so much insist on acting this way from Houston, Texas!

Whoops! My bad, I don't seem to have read that you stated said at anytime of your posts that you support/love Philippine pool. After all, there are some people who have a little to gain if Philippine pool continues on to be divided.

When you come back to the islands, ask and talk to both sides first. Then try to talk with as many pinoy pros as you can here, get all their ideas together...then you last talk with me.

Let me try to give you a breakdown:
* Asking each side of the good they've done, about 80-90% of what they would say is most probably TRUE. (The rest would be BS.)
* Ask both sides of what the bad things are from the other side, again roughly around 60-70% of it will be TRUE. (But only becoz half of that was made possible by the otherside.)
* Ask most of the players if it's ok with them to simply unify the two groups, about 80% of them would say THEY DON'T MIND AT ALL AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUALLY PLAY. (The remaining 20% all have personal reasons against the opposing group. Ie.: Alex Pagulayan, I can't really blame him. The guy was treated unfairly.)

My estimations are rough. But all this was personally gathered. Both sides have a lot of BS on them. But also both have a lot of good inside. For things to work out, you simply have to do away with the BS and concentrate on making the good BETTER!

Some of you might say "naivete" or "easier said than done". Yeah I agree, and probably just as well. But then, when you hit rock-bottom, they always say that the only way is up. I know Philippine pool has hit an all-time low. I just don't want to further drive it any lower.
 
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kano said:
Instead of taking Yen off of AZB, we should encourage/offer members from the BMPAP to write a re-occuring column. Bandido aka Edwin Reyes, would be a good candidate because he posts here all the time. He also seems to be a strong writer.

On one hand it would give an opposing view of the state of pool from thier POV. But on the other hand it could turn out to be an endless back and forth.

It's like when talk show hosts like Jay Leno or Letterman or CNN will have all candidates for an election regardless of thier positions on issues.

Right now with only Yen having a official avenue to the States through AZB, it looks pretty one-sided.

Kano
Click to expand...



What's wrong with doing this??????????????????????????
 
wpc needs guts

this whole fiasco can actually be solved by wpc if they have the guts to deal with it..

it's really simple: all phil pro players are against and don't have anything to do with the corrupt way of yen and cohorts..and they are willing to boycott any wpc tour where yen and cohorts have their hands on...

so what is the solution,,i know wpc have already officially put out their stance on this... but that is just lame...

they see the problem..it's yen/bscp..but they look the other way and say --let them resolve it locally and yet the consequences of boycott is international....

all wpc need todo is::tell yen that they are taking from bscp away the authority for wpc sanctioning because of the pro players grievances and that bscp is corrupt and without any credibility amongst phil. pro player

but i guess wpc is too lame to act that way...

i love even one day for the pool world to do away with wpc...(like the ungutsy UN)

i love it when kt won't pay a dime for his ipt to be sanctioned...that is gutsy...
 
abuse of feedom of speech??...wow

Darth-Pinoy said:
Those text messages are horrible, yes. They really should stop doing that. I get them on a daily basis as well. As much as I hate them, I choose to suffer them just to be able to get some kind of pulse from the BSCP side.


[q]just to maybe clarify to you ..all those pillars of pool you mentioned-those guys are BMPAP...and BMPAP was created as a reactionary effort to possibly prevent yen and cohorts from subjecting phil. pro pool payers to their ,what i call as ,"diabolocal" pool scheme...[/q]

I am aware of them being BMPAP. I have also talked with most of them, personally. I still do from time to time to get their opinions on all this. And to quote one of the mentioned WPC champs during the initial onset of these problems..."Ako, laro lang naman talaga dapat eh. Syempre trabaho lang. Pero sabi kasi ni Boss eh...syempre dito ako. Tutal marami naman kami dito. At kung saan si Boss, dun ako. Dito sya sa BMPAP...dito rin ako." translation: "Me, I just wanna play. Of course it's what I do. But it's what (my) Boss wants...so here I am. Besides, there's a lot of us here. Where the Boss is, I am there. He's here at the BMPAP...so am I."

And in not so many words, a lot of the BMPAP players share the same sentiment. I could safely say that no less than 95% of the Phil's best players are with the BMPAP. Certainly the top-pros are. But that doesn't mean they immediately share the same sentiments and intentions as those of the top BMPAP protagonists. Most of them are just "going with the flow" of whomever is managing them. Again, understandably, a human act.




[q]now as far as your statement of stop reading and calling your chosen side to ask how you can help..i think you are naive..try that see what happens...[/q]

I'd rather be naive and keep trying/hoping for the best, rather than continue on being part of the problem and making it worse.




[q]and once again,,this is the forum where one opinion can be expressed and discussed...[/q]

Once again an abused excuse of freedom of speech.




[q]....do you understand english...
... i wonder if you really know all the facts here--you are saying let's do this for effie's sake--well i guess you really don't know what you are talking about....reyes and co. are fighting these monstous and diabolical imposition to them by yen and cohorts...
...you do not make sense..you're trying to sound like peaceful and smart but you have missed the whole point...you sound stupid and naive[/q]

Again the very kind of reaction and train of thought that definitely makes this problem even worse. And to think that it isn't really even pool-problem but a personal and political one between the warring factions! Jeez!



Boy (or Girl, whichever the case may be) I don't know where you're coming from? I can't understand why someone who can say they support/love Philippine pool so much insist on acting this way from Houston, Texas!

Whoops! My bad, I don't seem to have read that you stated said at anytime of your posts that you support/love Philippine pool. After all, there are some people who have a little to gain if Philippine pool continues on to be divided.

When you come back to the islands, ask and talk to both sides first. Then try to talk with as many pinoy pros as you can here, get all their ideas together...then you last talk with me.

Let me try to give you a breakdown:
* Asking each side of the good they've done, about 80-90% of what they would say is most probably TRUE. (The rest would be BS.)
* Ask both sides of what the bad things are from the other side, again roughly around 60-70% of it will be TRUE. (But only becoz half of that was made possible by the otherside.)
* Ask most of the players if it's ok with them to simply unify the two groups, about 80% of them would say THEY DON'T MIND AT ALL AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUALLY PLAY. (The remaining 20% all have personal reasons against the opposing group. Ie.: Alex Pagulayan, I can't really blame him. The guy was treated unfairly.)

My estimations are rough. But all this was personally gathered. Both sides have a lot of BS on them. But also both have a lot of good inside. For things to work out, you simply have to do away with the BS and concentrate on making the good BETTER!

Some of you might say "naivete" or "easier said than done". Yeah I agree, and probably just as well. But then, when you hit rock-bottom, they always say that the only way is up. I know Philippine pool has hit an all-time low. I just don't want to further drive it any lower.
Click to expand...

and for you mr. know it all.... i'm glad mindset like you don't govern in america,,otherwise a discussion like this will be illegal..

you consider this voicing of my opinion in this puny forum to be an abused of freedom of speech...wow... sir - not even communist ways will agree with you--how foolish could you be??
is that your best effort in lecturing us with freedom of speech...take your babymind somewhere...

you're worst that yen- the dictator...
 
This part of the WPA statement, "...It is part of the WPA Agreements with the promoters of both the 9-Ball World Championship and the Ten Ball World Championship that players competing must be in good standing with their own national federations", is understandable but for us to let go of all that we fight for in order to abide by this "understandable" organisatonal stance is not acceptable. I believe that it's time for the continental member of the WPA, APBU, to put its foot down on its erring member who's lost the majority of its constituent following. So, APBU, please count this as a "no-confidence" vote against the BSCP.

I was politely hinted at to "sit back and watch" for a while by a respected member of our international community but if this WPA statement is what I was to have waited and simmered-down for IMO, the above WPA statement leaves us no choice but to seek immediate ouster of the current leadership of our WPA/APBU recognized national association. So be it then.

APBU should have exercised its authority specially when they have full knowledge of the Ronnie-WADA issue, player invitation issues and the QATAR invitation reply of BSCP about "Efren and Django not capable of participating" because Mr. Puyat isn't going to pay for Efren and Django's airfare? These are gross misconduct of their national association members yet APBU opts not to act on this.

So did we recognize authority here? Yes we did. So, were we heard by these authority? :confused: Hopefully this doesn't reach a point where somebody will say to these authorities "I told you so".
 
i hope apbu and bscp are not in "bed"....

i do not see how wpc won't make a final stance and make a new decision that phil. pro players don't have to have bscp/apbu's blessing,,,

it's ok if they have integrity in their dealings..but it's the opposite...

wpc can do it without yen/bscp... yen really knows how to bribe people..

if wpc continues to make lame excises like these and won't make a gutsy move for them to do what is best for pool...then i continue my wish that somebody -someone like kt will do away with wpc....

wpc is useless if they cannot make a stand for what is right for pool...

"local issue" my behind... but cries about the consequences being worldpool-wide

i know we have to respect authority for each country,,but these authoruty cannot be above "the law"

authorities like bscp/apbu are only good if they have credibility

i'm with you er,,,make a stand " give me liberty or give me death"
 
arian dacongan said:
... wpc is useless if they cannot make a stand for what is right for pool... ..
Click to expand...
It is not up to the WPA to decide what is right within the Philippines, except as to how the official National Governing Body relates to the WPA. I think it is not reasonable to ask the WPA to decide on a matter that is local to a country, and in fact I think the charter of the WPA forbids it from doing so.

It is up to the people of the Philippines to decide which organization will represent them in the APBU. I hope the people of the Philippines decide soon which organization that will be.
 
Darth-Pinoy said:
PS- Let me clue you in...writing in these forums degrading either camp DOES NOT HELP!
Shame be to you if you're Filipino and insist to continue on like this just becoz you don't like one side. It's not about liking either one or anyone. It's about doing what's best for everybody concerned.
Click to expand...

Tap tap tap! Some just like to meddle in things they think they know about. But obviously is based only on what is read on the net.
 
The Story

It has been my opinion that everything that happened to Philippine pool has truly been because of Yen Makabenta. This includes the accolades that Jerry had decorated Makabenta with. Unfortunately, many a predicament that BSCP has are their own doing too.

1] BMPAP would not have been created if BSCP had not felt that they had been dealt with unfairly by BSCP. The root of this is conflict of interest. Makabenta decided that Raya Sports be a partner of BSCP. BSCP and Raya decided not only to get into tournament organization, they also decided to take care of players. Favoritism on player selection is the root of all the conflict. BSCP started filling up invitations with their own players, and many times, there were quotas in the list.

As managers of stables of professional players, business was their prime consideration. Favoritism of course affected the existence of both professional player and manager.

2] When the stable owners got fed-up, BSCP did not see the business side of things because of their split personality. They decided to think BSCP (authority) and not Raya (business competition) and left the stables fuming. In one tournament, BSCP inconsiderately took a Bugsy player out of a list that was agreed upon in a meeting and instead put in their player.

Conflict was treated with neglect by BSCP. Bugsy called for meetings to no avail.

This prompted Perry Mariano to sit down with Edwin Reyes, Putch Puyat and Jonnathan Sy to create a group of their own to protect their (and their players') interests.

Had BSCP seen these managers as their source of the world's best players, they would have treated the managers like business suppliers.

3] Instead of rectifying the situation, the BSCP camp turned to black propaganda in both media and text messaging. Vanity numbers traced to BSCP Treasurer Sebastian Chua were used.

Raya continued to hide behind BSCP's authority in dealing with their newfound competition in what was now BMPAP. Raya's use of BSCP was now more obvious. Makabenta, who headed BSCP and Raya, displeased the Philippine pool constituents because of (at this point, even just perceived) conflict of interest.

4] BMPAP made a move to stay away from BSCP by declaring their group Professionals and registering the new association with the Games and Amusement Board. BSCP, being a National Sport Association, is an association that supposedly develops amateurs. That differentiation was the comfort zone that MBPAP wanted to enjoy.

5] Media and Text messaging black propaganda was BSCP's way to solve the conflict. It is concluded by many that this strategy comes from the Public Relations department of BSCP because of its consistency. They eventually filed a petition in the Philippine Senate to investigate the Games and Amusement Board because of an alleged biased intervention. While they consumed their efforts in high chairs, BMPAP rolled up their sleeves and started working.

6] BMPAP and Raya Sports went on the business warpath, holding tournaments simultaneously. But what supposedly should be a healthy competition was not. BMPAP had to work against Raya Sports hiding behind BSCP's power of accreditation. In all its business ventures, BSCP has had top billing while many times, Raya Sports is not even mentioned.

7] BSCP's text messages went so bad to the extent of involving Mariano's wife in text messages. In a show of loyalty, different BMPAP personalities sought legal advise and decided to get personal with Makabenta in court. As of this writing, there are about three more court cases being processed in my knowledge, aside from a Senate investigation for a P10M "sponsorship". Hence, the Pagulayan law suit is not because of BMPAP and BSCP/Raya competition. Pagulayan was likewise the object of black propaganda of BSCP in both Media and text messages. BSCP had brought the competition to a personal level.

8] WPA had issued a statement asking the factions to fix their differences. BSCP had said and done too many underhanded things to afford reconciliation. Matters have been brought to the court of justice.

As of now, the brew is ready to leave the hotpot. Only the unfolding of imminent events will decide on things. It is much too late for reconciliation.
 
perhaps instead of the big wigs doing business as usual, try asking the people that this affects the most: the pool players.

I say screw bmpap and raya and bscp and apbu and wpa--for now. ask the players what THEY want...instead of asking people who are profiting from the people that this is affecting.

but, alas, i know this can't be done in a fair manner because the players will have to support their managers if they want to get paid, and the managers will have their own biased opinions attached....so, sounds like a stalemate as of right now, until big egos are popped.
 
sputnik said:
It has been my opinion that everything that happened to Philippine pool has truly been because of Yen Makabenta. This includes the accolades that Jerry had decorated Makabenta with. Unfortunately, many a predicament that BSCP has are their own doing too.

1] BMPAP would not have been created if BSCP had not felt that they had been dealt with unfairly by BSCP. The root of this is conflict of interest. Makabenta decided that Raya Sports be a partner of BSCP. BSCP and Raya decided not only to get into tournament organization, they also decided to take care of players. Favoritism on player selection is the root of all the conflict. BSCP started filling up invitations with their own players, and many times, there were quotas in the list.

As managers of stables of professional players, business was their prime consideration. Favoritism of course affected the existence of both professional player and manager.

2] When the stable owners got fed-up, BSCP did not see the business side of things because of their split personality. They decided to think BSCP (authority) and not Raya (business competition) and left the stables fuming. In one tournament, BSCP inconsiderately took a Bugsy player out of a list that was agreed upon in a meeting and instead put in their player.

Conflict was treated with neglect by BSCP. Bugsy called for meetings to no avail.

This prompted Perry Mariano to sit down with Edwin Reyes, Putch Puyat and Jonnathan Sy to create a group of their own to protect their (and their players') interests.

Had BSCP seen these managers as their source of the world's best players, they would have treated the managers like business suppliers.

3] Instead of rectifying the situation, the BSCP camp turned to black propaganda in both media and text messaging. Vanity numbers traced to BSCP Treasurer Sebastian Chua were used.

Raya continued to hide behind BSCP's authority in dealing with their newfound competition in what was now BMPAP. Raya's use of BSCP was now more obvious. Makabenta, who headed BSCP and Raya, displeased the Philippine pool constituents because of (at this point, even just perceived) conflict of interest.

4] BMPAP made a move to stay away from BSCP by declaring their group Professionals and registering the new association with the Games and Amusement Board. BSCP, being a National Sport Association, is an association that supposedly develops amateurs. That differentiation was the comfort zone that MBPAP wanted to enjoy.

5] Media and Text messaging black propaganda was BSCP's way to solve the conflict. It is concluded by many that this strategy comes from the Public Relations department of BSCP because of its consistency. They eventually filed a petition in the Philippine Senate to investigate the Games and Amusement Board because of an alleged biased intervention. While they consumed their efforts in high chairs, BMPAP rolled up their sleeves and started working.

6] BMPAP and Raya Sports went on the business warpath, holding tournaments simultaneously. But what supposedly should be a healthy competition was not. BMPAP had to work against Raya Sports hiding behind BSCP's power of accreditation. In all its business ventures, BSCP has had top billing while many times, Raya Sports is not even mentioned.

7] BSCP's text messages went so bad to the extent of involving Mariano's wife in text messages. In a show of loyalty, different BMPAP personalities sought legal advise and decided to get personal with Makabenta in court. As of this writing, there are about three more court cases being processed in my knowledge, aside from a Senate investigation for a P10M "sponsorship". Hence, the Pagulayan law suit is not because of BMPAP and BSCP/Raya competition. Pagulayan was likewise the object of black propaganda of BSCP in both Media and text messages. BSCP had brought the competition to a personal level.

8] WPA had issued a statement asking the factions to fix their differences. BSCP had said and done too many underhanded things to afford reconciliation. Matters have been brought to the court of justice.

As of now, the brew is ready to leave the hotpot. Only the unfolding of imminent events will decide on things. It is much too late for reconciliation.
Click to expand...

thank you for your in depth infos on these matter..you are absolutely right
 
Bob Jewett said:
It is not up to the WPA to decide what is right within the Philippines, except as to how the official National Governing Body relates to the WPA. I think it is not reasonable to ask the WPA to decide on a matter that is local to a country, and in fact I think the charter of the WPA forbids it from doing so.

It is up to the people of the Philippines to decide which organization will represent them in the APBU. I hope the people of the Philippines decide soon which organization that will be.
Click to expand...

i agree that they cannot interfere with internal phil. pool problem...

but in a way ,,they part of the problem,,and can be the solution if they want to,,and i think they need to,,,

they are partly the problem because when their rule says that pro plyers playing in wpc tours must be in good standing with their national organization..(((i have no problem with this))))

but when the authorizing body is the problem..in this case apbu and mainly yen/bscp...

the authorizing body is only good if it is respected and has credibility with the pro pool community...in this case we know that all the pro pool players in the phil. formed their own organization because of yen/bscp corrupt and unjust ways...

what wpc can do as a solution is to make some adjustments on their rules to address such problem...

we cannot allow the players to be yoked by tyrrany of yen/bscp just because they are the authorizing body...

we see how one way and how shortsighted wpc's rule is..it works if all is fine and dandy...but what if there is a problem???

you see my point...

they say: all players palying in wpc tours must be in good standing with authorizing body

my question is: what if the pro players have big problem and does not recognized nor they have anything to do with that authorizing body because of just cause. ie..corruption of authorizing body..

should we still stick with this"simple " rule,,,we humans have to be more smarter than this and find a solution ,,, sure it can be done without directly interfering locally...

they can do that by just simply adding a line on their current rules:

i deal with contracts all the time being a business owner that has contracts with different entities...sometimes you make rules that doesnot consider a problem you ahve never faced... what do you do???

are u going to be stucked??? well that is the choice wpc can make


add a line by saying: if the authorizing body's crediblity is impaired in view of majority of the pro players ,,then an agreed solution where the previous authorizing body will not be involved shall be reached.

it's wpc's choice and right:

i think to further bolster the credibility of wpc to the pool world,,they should make this addendum.amendments to their rules:

thank you
 
Bob Jewett said:
It is not up to the WPA to decide what is right within the Philippines, except as to how the official National Governing Body relates to the WPA. I think it is not reasonable to ask the WPA to decide on a matter that is local to a country, and in fact I think the charter of the WPA forbids it from doing so.

It is up to the people of the Philippines to decide which organization will represent them in the APBU. I hope the people of the Philippines decide soon which organization that will be.
Click to expand...


btw,,mr jewett..i just remembered now,,my friend /my daughter's godparent Javier--you met him in ca. when he was there..he told me you played some while he was there,,this was about 2-3 months ago,,he was the director of HP Power supply...i just thought to mention that :)
 
Lies

sputnik said:
It has been my opinion that everything that happened to Philippine pool has truly been because of Yen Makabenta. This includes the accolades that Jerry had decorated Makabenta with. Unfortunately, many a predicament that BSCP has are their own doing too.

1] BMPAP would not have been created if BSCP had not felt that they had been dealt with unfairly by BSCP. The root of this is conflict of interest. Makabenta decided that Raya Sports be a partner of BSCP. BSCP and Raya decided not only to get into tournament organization, they also decided to take care of players. Favoritism on player selection is the root of all the conflict. BSCP started filling up invitations with their own players, and many times, there were quotas in the list.

As managers of stables of professional players, business was their prime consideration. Favoritism of course affected the existence of both professional player and manager.

2] When the stable owners got fed-up, BSCP did not see the business side of things because of their split personality. They decided to think BSCP (authority) and not Raya (business competition) and left the stables fuming. In one tournament, BSCP inconsiderately took a Bugsy player out of a list that was agreed upon in a meeting and instead put in their player.

Conflict was treated with neglect by BSCP. Bugsy called for meetings to no avail.

This prompted Perry Mariano to sit down with Edwin Reyes, Putch Puyat and Jonnathan Sy to create a group of their own to protect their (and their players') interests.

Had BSCP seen these managers as their source of the world's best players, they would have treated the managers like business suppliers.

3] Instead of rectifying the situation, the BSCP camp turned to black propaganda in both media and text messaging. Vanity numbers traced to BSCP Treasurer Sebastian Chua were used.

Raya continued to hide behind BSCP's authority in dealing with their newfound competition in what was now BMPAP. Raya's use of BSCP was now more obvious. Makabenta, who headed BSCP and Raya, displeased the Philippine pool constituents because of (at this point, even just perceived) conflict of interest.

4] BMPAP made a move to stay away from BSCP by declaring their group Professionals and registering the new association with the Games and Amusement Board. BSCP, being a National Sport Association, is an association that supposedly develops amateurs. That differentiation was the comfort zone that MBPAP wanted to enjoy.

5] Media and Text messaging black propaganda was BSCP's way to solve the conflict. It is concluded by many that this strategy comes from the Public Relations department of BSCP because of its consistency. They eventually filed a petition in the Philippine Senate to investigate the Games and Amusement Board because of an alleged biased intervention. While they consumed their efforts in high chairs, BMPAP rolled up their sleeves and started working.

6] BMPAP and Raya Sports went on the business warpath, holding tournaments simultaneously. But what supposedly should be a healthy competition was not. BMPAP had to work against Raya Sports hiding behind BSCP's power of accreditation. In all its business ventures, BSCP has had top billing while many times, Raya Sports is not even mentioned.

7] BSCP's text messages went so bad to the extent of involving Mariano's wife in text messages. In a show of loyalty, different BMPAP personalities sought legal advise and decided to get personal with Makabenta in court. As of this writing, there are about three more court cases being processed in my knowledge, aside from a Senate investigation for a P10M "sponsorship". Hence, the Pagulayan law suit is not because of BMPAP and BSCP/Raya competition. Pagulayan was likewise the object of black propaganda of BSCP in both Media and text messages. BSCP had brought the competition to a personal level.

8] WPA had issued a statement asking the factions to fix their differences. BSCP had said and done too many underhanded things to afford reconciliation. Matters have been brought to the court of justice.

As of now, the brew is ready to leave the hotpot. Only the unfolding of imminent events will decide on things. It is much too late for reconciliation.
Click to expand...

You talk of protecting players' interest, yet you refer to their managers' operations as stables -- like animals who can be squeezed for what they're worth and discarded when you've sucked the life out of them. tsk tsk

You fail to mention that BMPAP has never sought BSCP sanction for its tournaments. When Perry Mariano proposed to BSCP that he would run the rating tournaments, BSCP board members funded it with personal money -- not BSCP money. But did Perry do it? No. He pocketed the money -- to date he has neither submitted the results of the ranking tournaments he ran (if he did run them at all) nor accounted for the money.

You keep insisting that there's this P10 million that Phil Sports Commission gave BSCP, yet the PSC as confirmed by the Commission on Audit said that there was so such amount given -- that only P1.2 million was given to directly to pool players and coaches for their tournament stipend and expenses and none to BSCP.

As for government sponsorship of events -- whether 10 million or 100 million (you can't even get your figures right) -- all sponsorships are well documented and accounted for. They are called certificates of performance, issued by the broadcasters like ESPN-Star Sports, ABS-CBN, Solar, ABC5, etc. These are submitted to the respective sponsors -- including government agencies who sponsored like the DOT etc.


you are right on one point, though. It is good that it is in the proper fora like the courts and the legislature -- because there, the issues will be sorted out properly, and all those who speak there will be held accountable for their statements. People go to jail for their lies.

Unlike in this internet forum where anybody can hide behind faslse names and say anything and not be accountable for their words or the damage they do.
 
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