you can't smoke in a poolroom???
- Thread starter nyjoe14.1
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Wow
Dam not sure where to start on this one
First of all I never attacked anyone personally on this thread. I really feel sorry for people that lack the capacity to have a rational debate with out attacking someone with a different view personally.
Second my analogies due exactly what they are supposed to do. And analogy is not suppose to site a specific example, but convey an idea. Which is what they did. They put similar but different situations in a similar light no more no less.
Third why should I go else where when I have been there from the start?? No one EVER put a gun to your head or anyone else and said go in to that pool room. That was (and is) a weak argument on your part.
Fourth (and this is my favorite) not being persecuted huh??? Maybe you should look up the definition of persecute, no that’s ok ill do it for you: 1persecute
verb [T]
-to treat someone unfairly or cruelly over a long period of time because of their race, religion, or POLITICAL BELIEFS or to annoy someone by refusing to leave them alone:
-this definition was found www.dictionary.cambridge.org
And for the record my actions could only have a negative affect on people that CHOOSE to be around me. If that doesn’t set that straight I don’t know what will!!!
Finally ill say a few things about my tantrum and the soap box that im having it on. I have to say that I like the view from the top of the soap box. Its all most as tall as the ones that people stood on top of to preach there socialist drivel to get this law passed. LOL. One people one design and no one can think for themselves, god that sucks. I still can’t understand why the people with a similar position to you act like some one is making them go to the pool room. You knew what it was when you started playing and you still went. Choice’s that’s what this is about, you could choose to stay home buy a table and play with you nonsmoking friends. As you so eloquently put it “that is still legal”.
Cant wait to see how many people this pisses off....................
GTeye said:
Dam not sure where to start on this one
First of all I never attacked anyone personally on this thread. I really feel sorry for people that lack the capacity to have a rational debate with out attacking someone with a different view personally.
Second my analogies due exactly what they are supposed to do. And analogy is not suppose to site a specific example, but convey an idea. Which is what they did. They put similar but different situations in a similar light no more no less.
Third why should I go else where when I have been there from the start?? No one EVER put a gun to your head or anyone else and said go in to that pool room. That was (and is) a weak argument on your part.
Fourth (and this is my favorite) not being persecuted huh??? Maybe you should look up the definition of persecute, no that’s ok ill do it for you: 1persecute
verb [T]
-to treat someone unfairly or cruelly over a long period of time because of their race, religion, or POLITICAL BELIEFS or to annoy someone by refusing to leave them alone:
-this definition was found www.dictionary.cambridge.org
And for the record my actions could only have a negative affect on people that CHOOSE to be around me. If that doesn’t set that straight I don’t know what will!!!
Finally ill say a few things about my tantrum and the soap box that im having it on. I have to say that I like the view from the top of the soap box. Its all most as tall as the ones that people stood on top of to preach there socialist drivel to get this law passed. LOL. One people one design and no one can think for themselves, god that sucks. I still can’t understand why the people with a similar position to you act like some one is making them go to the pool room. You knew what it was when you started playing and you still went. Choice’s that’s what this is about, you could choose to stay home buy a table and play with you nonsmoking friends. As you so eloquently put it “that is still legal”.
Cant wait to see how many people this pisses off....................
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Public smoking laws are starting in illinois
personally, i always play in a smoke free pool room at my university. (grammar ????)
smoke free makes the places generally appear cleaner, but i remember the couple of times i went to places where there was public smoking, and i miss some of it.
whatever
i am a very occasional smoker, so i dont really care.
personally, i always play in a smoke free pool room at my university. (grammar ????)
smoke free makes the places generally appear cleaner, but i remember the couple of times i went to places where there was public smoking, and i miss some of it.
whatever
i am a very occasional smoker, so i dont really care.
Honest Dale responds...
Sure,
first, from a good friend of mine, so it is second hand
Big Johns Billiards in (Iowa?) closed after more than 25 years due to smoking ban, as explained by the sign left on the closed down premises
left by the owner
a little closer to home - and first hand
Golden Eight Ball, Worthington(suburb of Columbus)Ohio
a rock solid room since aprox 1963
closed and moved 20 miles north just to escape a smoking ban
there are plenty of others,
but these should sufice to establish I know what I am talking about.
I would now expect your apology for the thinly veiled implication
that I am a liar
Thanks
Dale
MrLucky said:Originally Posted by pdcue
FWIW it was 4 that passed. 5 was the much less restrictive
constitutional amendment sponsored by the tobacco industry
Now that we have the pedantic/anal issues done with,
I am gravely concerned. Esp for BK, where Steve just invested
in all those new Diamonds.
smoking bans have pretty much been disasterous for poolrooms
Many a thriving room with decades of sucess, have crashed and burned when smoking was outlawed, some in only a few months
As I see it, the only hope is, the ban is state wide. Perhaps that
will soften the blow somewhat, but I am not optimistic
Dale Pierce(who is sleepless in Cincinnati)
I really find this hard to believe, of course it sounds great for the discussion but where are all of these now smokeless defunct Pool Rooms ? or perhaps I should say where were they??? The places I am aware of in NY that cried that they would lose all of their business are still cranking on only now with a healthier and easier to see atmosphere!
Sure,
first, from a good friend of mine, so it is second hand
Big Johns Billiards in (Iowa?) closed after more than 25 years due to smoking ban, as explained by the sign left on the closed down premises
left by the owner
a little closer to home - and first hand
Golden Eight Ball, Worthington(suburb of Columbus)Ohio
a rock solid room since aprox 1963
closed and moved 20 miles north just to escape a smoking ban
there are plenty of others,
but these should sufice to establish I know what I am talking about.
I would now expect your apology for the thinly veiled implication
that I am a liar
Thanks
Dale
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Dale..
Well first off if I thought you were a liar! I will just say Dale you are lying! but what I asked for was your references and honestly 2 out of all of the rooms that have survived aren't many! Many times folks will post what they have heard 2nd hand or sometimes even 5th hand from someone else ! and actually you only have 1 second hand at that,example of a room that closed and the owner blamed it on the smoking ban! could have been anything !
now how about all of the many rooms and other businesses
that are still functioning and profiting ?
pdcue said:
Well first off if I thought you were a liar! I will just say Dale you are lying! but what I asked for was your references and honestly 2 out of all of the rooms that have survived aren't many! Many times folks will post what they have heard 2nd hand or sometimes even 5th hand from someone else ! and actually you only have 1 second hand at that,example of a room that closed and the owner blamed it on the smoking ban! could have been anything ! now how about all of the many rooms and other businesses
that are still functioning and profiting ?
This is your brain on drugs..er...I mean... my lungs on smoke.
Any Questions?
Any Questions?
Avenger said:
Have you read the thread? Your answer lie within it.
Once again, it is NOT a smoker's right to fill any environment with second hand smoke; it is the OWNER'S right to fill HIS property with whatever kind of customers and smoke he wants. It is the potential CUSTOMER'S right to NOT go into this place of business. It is NOT the potential customer's right to force the OWNERS of these properties to provide whatever environment a NON-owner happens to want at the time.
Liberty works. It is very simple. Read carefully...
If you do not want to breathe noxious fumes, stay away from others' properties that have noxious fumes. THAT is your only right concerning OTHER'S property.
Jeff Livingston
orangecrush said:
I hope it changes soon, too, but the ban here in Austin has been in effect for over a year now and people still smoke in all the pool halls.
And now that the pool halls don't have ashtrays, its even more gross with people ashing on the floor, etc. Yuck!
ahhhhh ....
OK here we go one more time It is a owners right ONLY when his business is a private membership club ONLY!!!! once he is open to the PUBLIC!!! he forfeits those rights to privacy and doing for the most part as he desires!!!! why is this so hard to understand?chefjeff said:
I agee completely with M. Lucky..
Just because it is your place of business does NOT mean you can set all the rules. If you are not a private club, you have to abide by the laws of the municipality, state and or federal government that covers your location. Any smoker who chose to get addicted to smoking is still free to do so, just not to give away their second hand, cancer causing smoke to others. My mom is no longer here, because she chose to start smoking at age thirteen. I was unable to convince her to quit. She wound up with lung cancer and died of a heart attack brought on by the excessive coughing that came from the lung cancer. She died five months after her 59th birthday. Her mom and dad lived into their eighties and nineties. Anybody who wants to keep smoking, go ahead, just not around people who don't need your secondhand smoke.
Just because it is your place of business does NOT mean you can set all the rules. If you are not a private club, you have to abide by the laws of the municipality, state and or federal government that covers your location. Any smoker who chose to get addicted to smoking is still free to do so, just not to give away their second hand, cancer causing smoke to others. My mom is no longer here, because she chose to start smoking at age thirteen. I was unable to convince her to quit. She wound up with lung cancer and died of a heart attack brought on by the excessive coughing that came from the lung cancer. She died five months after her 59th birthday. Her mom and dad lived into their eighties and nineties. Anybody who wants to keep smoking, go ahead, just not around people who don't need your secondhand smoke.
In Austin, the pool halls were among the biggest losers when the smoking ban took effect. There is one pool hall that is close to bankruptcy.
This is depite the huge enforcement problem the ban created. Funny, just like during Prohibition, "Smoke-easies" have appeared all over the city.
Click's, the chain, was one of leaders in the lawsuit against the City of Austin. They would not bother to sue the City if their revenue stayed the same or increased after the smoking ban. They had a bar close in Tempe, AZ, due to their smoking ban.
For those if you in favor of smoking bans, I urge you to leave bigger tips and help out the bar employees. Many of them are about to take a huge financial hit. Of the bars that formerly permitted smoking in Austin, they are down an average of $5700 a month. That is despite the "studies" that were done saying otherwise. That's after a year. A neighborhood pub, or a mom and pop operation cannot withstand that kind of downturn while they wait for business to bounce back. Or many pool halls.
Smoking bans are dependent on the junk science of second hand smoke. The truth is SHS is an irritant at best.
I think smoking on private property should not be up to the patron, smoking or not, but up to the owner. That goes along with private property rights.
The idea that inviting the public in opens a business to any arbitrary regulation is absurd. Should the State be able to decide how employees should dress? The State crossed the line with smoking bans. Now the State wants to ban what is not "good for you." Trans Fats are next on the list, as we are seeing in NYC. Also on the list are junk food, refined sugar, red meat, caffeine, salt, Mexican food, and Chinese food. You don’t believe me? Google CSPI, the special interest group behind the transfat ban. These people are very well funded, just like the anti-drinkers.
And of course, alcohol is on the list. I always think it is funny when people complain of smoking in bars where they drink poison. With the damage drinking causes, if smoking in a bar discourages anyone from entering a bar, that's probably a good thing because they might drink less. Before you respond with, "but drinking doesn’t affect everyone else in the bar", read this: http://www.marininstitute.org/alcohol_industry/secondhand_impacts.htm
Here's a quote from the above: "The consequences of alcohol use affect everyone—even those who drink rarely or not at all." The name of the article is "Secondhand Effects of Alcohol Use." Sound familiar? I expect drinking in bars to be very different in the future than what it is now. I imagine the USA will go the way of Scandinavia. A beer in a bar in Sweden is about $10, due to excessive taxation aimed at getting people to quit drinking.
You do have a right to smoke free air. You can walk right out of there.
I personally prefer bars where people smoking. It’s a more fun, relaxed, festive atmosphere. The bars where smoking has been banned are more sterile. It’s like going into a Starbucks only they serve alcohol.
Smoking is bad for you. So is drinking. So is hanging out in bars. But smoking is healthier than Fascism.
This is depite the huge enforcement problem the ban created. Funny, just like during Prohibition, "Smoke-easies" have appeared all over the city.
Click's, the chain, was one of leaders in the lawsuit against the City of Austin. They would not bother to sue the City if their revenue stayed the same or increased after the smoking ban. They had a bar close in Tempe, AZ, due to their smoking ban.
For those if you in favor of smoking bans, I urge you to leave bigger tips and help out the bar employees. Many of them are about to take a huge financial hit. Of the bars that formerly permitted smoking in Austin, they are down an average of $5700 a month. That is despite the "studies" that were done saying otherwise. That's after a year. A neighborhood pub, or a mom and pop operation cannot withstand that kind of downturn while they wait for business to bounce back. Or many pool halls.
Smoking bans are dependent on the junk science of second hand smoke. The truth is SHS is an irritant at best.
I think smoking on private property should not be up to the patron, smoking or not, but up to the owner. That goes along with private property rights.
The idea that inviting the public in opens a business to any arbitrary regulation is absurd. Should the State be able to decide how employees should dress? The State crossed the line with smoking bans. Now the State wants to ban what is not "good for you." Trans Fats are next on the list, as we are seeing in NYC. Also on the list are junk food, refined sugar, red meat, caffeine, salt, Mexican food, and Chinese food. You don’t believe me? Google CSPI, the special interest group behind the transfat ban. These people are very well funded, just like the anti-drinkers.
And of course, alcohol is on the list. I always think it is funny when people complain of smoking in bars where they drink poison. With the damage drinking causes, if smoking in a bar discourages anyone from entering a bar, that's probably a good thing because they might drink less. Before you respond with, "but drinking doesn’t affect everyone else in the bar", read this: http://www.marininstitute.org/alcohol_industry/secondhand_impacts.htm
Here's a quote from the above: "The consequences of alcohol use affect everyone—even those who drink rarely or not at all." The name of the article is "Secondhand Effects of Alcohol Use." Sound familiar? I expect drinking in bars to be very different in the future than what it is now. I imagine the USA will go the way of Scandinavia. A beer in a bar in Sweden is about $10, due to excessive taxation aimed at getting people to quit drinking.
You do have a right to smoke free air. You can walk right out of there.
I personally prefer bars where people smoking. It’s a more fun, relaxed, festive atmosphere. The bars where smoking has been banned are more sterile. It’s like going into a Starbucks only they serve alcohol.
Smoking is bad for you. So is drinking. So is hanging out in bars. But smoking is healthier than Fascism.
spyglass said:
I'm curious what pool hall in Austin is close to bankruptcy after the smoking ban that is pretty much not enforced? I have not been to a pool hall yet in Austin where they did not look the other way when you lit up a cigarrette.
There are some pool halls that aren't doing well, but they weren't doing well BEFORE the smoking ban, and I'm sure its easy for them to claim its the smoking ban thats killing their business.
I guess it would vary state to state based upon what is determined to be a private club by state laws. Some states may restrict it to non-profits (of course, most pool rooms would qualify as non-profitBRKNRUN said:
), some states may require the private club also engage in philantrophic work, etc. I'm sure it has been tried and maybe successfully in some cases.