Your opponent pockets a ball, but the ball jumps back out of the pocket

Cornerman said:
It (a ball hitting the bottom of the pocket and coming back out) happens. Or, if it doesn't happen, it'd be tough for you to convince anyone it didn't. ..
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I think that if this hasn't happened to you, you have lead a very sheltered life or are just beginning at pool.

On a related point, here is something I learned from Tony Annigoni about shooting hard into Gold Crown pockets.... GC drop pockets (no ball return) are notorious for spitting out balls shot dead into the center. The bottoms of the pocket liner are rounded so the balls can make a loop-the-loop and come back out if they go in along just the right path. Anyway, I was playing Tony one time and he moved a ball into !!! the pocket he was shooting at, making two balls in that pocket. Two is exactly the right number. With no ball, the above can happen. With one ball, it can sit centered in the drain hole and you have a chance to hit it square and have your ball come back out on a "combination." With two balls, there's no way for the new ball to hit the others in a way that sends it back out. And three balls starts to be too crowded. Never shoot at a GC pocket with four balls in it.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
I think that if this hasn't happened to you, you have lead a very sheltered life or are just beginning at pool.

On a related point, here is something I learned from Tony Annigoni about shooting hard into Gold Crown pockets.... GC drop pockets (no ball return) are notorious for spitting out balls shot dead into the center. The bottoms of the pocket liner are rounded so the balls can make a loop-the-loop and come back out it the go in along just the right path. Anyway, I was playing Tony one time and he moved a ball into !!! the pocket he was shooting at, making two balls in that pocket. Two is exactly the right number. With no ball, the above can happen. With one ball, it can sit centered in the drain hole and you have a chance to hit is square and have you ball come back out on a "combination." With two balls, there's no way for the new ball to hit the others in a way that sends it back out. And three balls starts to be too crowded. Never shoot at a GC pocket with four balls in it.
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Thank you for this valuable information. TRUE worthwhile advice is not easy to find.
 
happened to my opponent in a match the other day. He shook his head and walked away from the table and I simply walked to the table and ran out. I never feel bad about it when it happens to someone.
 
ChrisBanks said:
Do you allow him to continue shooting? If not, do you feel comfortable winning on a technicality?

Your opponent has made the ball land in the bottom of the pocket. Is he responsible for not having the ball jump back out?
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I believe they call that a missed shot
 
ChrisBanks said:
Yes, but we are not concerned with "they." We are concerned with what is right.

"They" are not right with certainty, or are they?
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I believe 'they' are right. Maybe I'm thinking about this to simply? If the ball is on the table, doesn't it need to be shot into a pocket? I don't golf, but for those of you that do, if you hit a shot into the cup and it comes out what would the ruling be? In basketball if you shot a shot that doesn't exit the bottom of the net the ball remains in play and you are awarded no points. To me, if the ball is on the table, I need to shoot it in the pocket, is there more to it than that?
 
ChrisBanks said:
So you are all saying that the determining factor is where the OBJECT BALL COMES TO REST, is this correct?
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YEP!! Hit a homerun a few years ago in a baseball league, and the wind blew it back, no kidding.... and it landed in the OF. The outfielder gave up on it, and next thing he knows it lands 10 feet from his shoes.

The baseball gods spit the ball back.... no much to complain about but run for the hills and squeeze out a triple....... you want the ball, it's gotta stay down :)

PS: There is a reason that many pro's clean out the pockets before they shoot into them to make they don't get a bounce back.......cause they KNOW they ain't shooting again if it happens...
 
Yes

ChrisBanks said:
So you are all saying that the determining factor is where the OBJECT BALL COMES TO REST, is this correct?
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That is exactly correct. It is derived from rule 2.11 under the instructions for referee's in my copy of the BCA Rule Book. It is also detailed in the Glossary Term of a successful stroke. Jumped Balls also gives a determination as to what will constitute a foul when an object ball leaves the table.

A legally Pocketed Ball must remain in the pocket. Because you accept playing equipment "as is", should a pocket create a circumstance that returns the object ball to the playing surface, and comes to rest, the ball is a legal hit, but not pocketed and will be counted as a miss. The following player accepts table in position.

This was a more frequent occurance on older drop pocket tables when there were too many balls in the pocket, hence the player's responsibility to "clear the pocket". On bar boxes, the culprit is mostly ball speed, angle, and equipment tolerances.

cajunfats
 
cajunfats said:
That is exactly correct. It is derived from rule 2.11 under the instructions for referee's in my copy of the BCA Rule Book. It is also detailed in the Glossary Term of a successful stroke. Jumped Balls also gives a determination as to what will constitute a foul when an object ball leaves the table.

A legally Pocketed Ball must remain in the pocket. Because you accept playing equipment "as is", should a pocket create a circumstance that returns the object ball to the playing surface, and comes to rest, the ball is a legal hit, but not pocketed and will be counted as a miss. The following player accepts table in position.

This was a more frequent occurance on older drop pocket tables when there were too many balls in the pocket, hence the player's responsibility to "clear the pocket". On bar boxes, the culprit is mostly ball speed, angle, and equipment tolerances.

cajunfats
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Very good.

And thus, when a ball is pocketed, and it slips through the gutter and onto the floor, this is a foul. As the deciding factor is the resting place of the ball, and if the resting place is the floor, it is by rule a foul.

And, if the ball is pocketed, and slips out of the ball return and onto the floor, this is a foul as well. We simply use the final resting spot of the ball as the defining factor.
 
One bar I used to play at had old Dynamo 3x6 bar boxes. There wasn't a divider between the side pockets on the ball return system. So if you hit it in one side pocket hard enough with the correct spin, the ball would go in the pocket and through the ball return and shoot up on the other side. The first time it happened to me I was drawing the cue ball back to the rail and the object ball popped up underneath me and hit me under the chin.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
 
ChrisBanks said:
And, if the ball is pocketed, and slips out of the ball return and onto the floor, this is a foul as well. We simply use the final resting spot of the ball as the defining factor.
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Now you're just arguing for the sake of argument.
 
Ghosst said:
Now you're just arguing for the sake of argument.
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Am I?

Several people here have argued that we judge the shot based on where the object ball lands. If it lands on the table, the shot is not considered pocketed.

If that be so, then if the object ball falls out of the ball return or out of the gutter and onto the floor, then by rule, that is a foul. If an object ball is knocked onto the ground, it is a foul.

There is no other way of interpretation.
 
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