If you could play how you play when you are in deadstroke on a daily basis, how good would you be? Would you be a worldbeater, a shortstop, or what? How good do you think you are capable of playing at this moment in time. In your top gear, do you think you have a chance to beat Efren? Be honest. Me, I think I would be a shortstop.
Your True Potential
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
Potential... Hmmm... I like the question. I started playing at 19 years old, so my chances of being pro-caliber were limited just by that fact. I have played against people who started at 12 and younger and they have uncanny accuracy on shots. They look at the angles and shoot, without re-interpreting the angle... I think women do that also... I have noticed that beginning women shoot better than beginning men. Women see the angle and shoot it. Men try to outthink the angles too much. I think that people who start young don't have this problem at all.
However, on my best nights, I have seen some magic come off the end of my own cue... that's what kept me excited about the game. I came into deadstroke at the end of the year tournament in my town one year. It was a beautiful thing and I took my underdog 13th place team to victory and $$cash$$ by just stomping on everyone. It was my finest days of pool and I know that there are many people that remember that performance. Ok... tooted my horn...
However, on my best nights, I have seen some magic come off the end of my own cue... that's what kept me excited about the game. I came into deadstroke at the end of the year tournament in my town one year. It was a beautiful thing and I took my underdog 13th place team to victory and $$cash$$ by just stomping on everyone. It was my finest days of pool and I know that there are many people that remember that performance. Ok... tooted my horn...
I believe if it were not for the fact that I like my day job and it pays better, I would have had a good chance at playing at the pro level.
The best night I can remember was playing a friend who was also an excellent player for $50 a set race to 5. We both ran out from the break about 2 times per set. I remember one set I broke and ran the first three racks and lost the set 3-5 and liked it because he was also playing so well that it drove me and allowed me to enjoy the game that much more. I think that after playing all night, we ended up breaking even.
Now, I still get a runout in my 8-ball league about 1 in every 6 games, but I don't think I'll ever have the time to get my game to that level again.
The best night I can remember was playing a friend who was also an excellent player for $50 a set race to 5. We both ran out from the break about 2 times per set. I remember one set I broke and ran the first three racks and lost the set 3-5 and liked it because he was also playing so well that it drove me and allowed me to enjoy the game that much more. I think that after playing all night, we ended up breaking even.
Now, I still get a runout in my 8-ball league about 1 in every 6 games, but I don't think I'll ever have the time to get my game to that level again.
Stroke doesn't help if you don't have experience
Even when I play my absolute with best stroke/rhythm I just don't have the experience of a Pro-class player. On my best days at 9 Ball I break and run around 10% of my racks. I need to averaging at least 20% to get to something close to Pro-class, so I'm still falling 50% short.
Additionally there's the opponent - If I'm playing a Pro-class player I'm likely to end up in much tougher safes when they have a chance to shoot, assuming they are not able to run out, and I would most like lose those racks due to my lack of safety skills which are much more about experience than stroke. If I'm playing a weak opponent who is unlikely to run more than 3 or 4 balls it makes little difference if I sell out on a safety as long as there are still 5 or more balls on the table. In fact in theory I am better off giving a weak opponent ball in hand with a lot of balls on the table, let them clear off the 3 or 4 they can reliably run and then leave me a 2-3 ball run out.
Even when I play my absolute with best stroke/rhythm I just don't have the experience of a Pro-class player. On my best days at 9 Ball I break and run around 10% of my racks. I need to averaging at least 20% to get to something close to Pro-class, so I'm still falling 50% short.
Additionally there's the opponent - If I'm playing a Pro-class player I'm likely to end up in much tougher safes when they have a chance to shoot, assuming they are not able to run out, and I would most like lose those racks due to my lack of safety skills which are much more about experience than stroke. If I'm playing a weak opponent who is unlikely to run more than 3 or 4 balls it makes little difference if I sell out on a safety as long as there are still 5 or more balls on the table. In fact in theory I am better off giving a weak opponent ball in hand with a lot of balls on the table, let them clear off the 3 or 4 they can reliably run and then leave me a 2-3 ball run out.
This is exactly the problem I have with the game of 9-ball at anything below the B/B+ level (and if we're being honest, and B is defined as I've been led to believe on this forum, the vast majority of even fairly serious pool players are below this level). You're not a favorite to run out with 8 balls on the table and ball-in-hand, unless the balls were spread exceptionally nicely on the break.AuntyDan said:
So if I break and make a ball against a C player, if there's at least one traffic issue and at least one ball on a rail, my best strategic move is to give ball-in-hand without even trying to start running from the one or the two, and win by default rather than by skill when the C player misses a shot he thought he was going to make (i.e. not playing safe).
Back on topic for the thread, though, I think I play like an A player during my glimpses of "dead stroke" and then go back to C- once the zone deserts me again.
First post on AZB, by the way, although I've lurked for quite some time. Hi everyone.
-Andrew
cuetechasaurus said:
Well first define shortstop. There was a post where many gave there opinion of a shortstop. It seems everyone didn't agree. Depends on where your from and quality of shortstop. For instance an A player in one area might be lucky to be a B in another.
Rod
O
onepocketchump
Guest
I would be a world class shortstop.
John
John
If it all came together like it has on occasion, I would be a world class shortstop too. Nerves and lack of practice are my worst enemies.
Once, I played in a women's regional tournament out of town and just played horribly in the money rounds. Being the president of the tour and having to do all the setup, oversee all the players, etc., I didn't hit a ball beforehand, so it was kind of understandable. A local guy had been watching me play and thought 'easy money' and asked me to play some cheap for $20/set, race to 5. Having to wait until the finals anyway to pack everything up, I figured it would be something to do to while away the time. He won the lag and broke and ran out. I thought to myself, "Damn it, now I have to play good too?"
So he broke the next rack and scratched after a couple shots, leaving a really screwy 3/9 combo. I took it and ran the next 4 racks to run the set out.
I guess if the opponent doesn't get back to the table, you can beat anyone, including Efren. The reality is, I let them back at the table far too often.
Once, I played in a women's regional tournament out of town and just played horribly in the money rounds. Being the president of the tour and having to do all the setup, oversee all the players, etc., I didn't hit a ball beforehand, so it was kind of understandable. A local guy had been watching me play and thought 'easy money' and asked me to play some cheap for $20/set, race to 5. Having to wait until the finals anyway to pack everything up, I figured it would be something to do to while away the time. He won the lag and broke and ran out. I thought to myself, "Damn it, now I have to play good too?"
So he broke the next rack and scratched after a couple shots, leaving a really screwy 3/9 combo. I took it and ran the next 4 racks to run the set out.
I guess if the opponent doesn't get back to the table, you can beat anyone, including Efren. The reality is, I let them back at the table far too often.
Last edited:
Lately I have been shooting very well just about every day. I can make almost every make able shot on the table and my speed control has been excellent. The only things I need to work on is my safety play and routes-which are mental, and my breaks and banks.
Breaks are very important at a higher level. It seems whoever gets control of the table first usually will win the rack. But the tables at the pool hall don't allow a perfect rack. So it is usually hit or miss even with a perfect break.
So even at my very best I do not shoot anywhere near touring-pro speed, maybe about as good as the top amateurs in the state.
Breaks are very important at a higher level. It seems whoever gets control of the table first usually will win the rack. But the tables at the pool hall don't allow a perfect rack. So it is usually hit or miss even with a perfect break.
So even at my very best I do not shoot anywhere near touring-pro speed, maybe about as good as the top amateurs in the state.
If I am in deadstroke, and my mind is perfect as my shots. I would have to say I cam capable of beating some of the best inthe area around me.
I am usually a apa 7/8 and vnea 8/9.
As for being in the pro-level. In all honesty, not a chance. Maybe years ago when I was younger and had it together more. But now, the mental game would eventually get me. I wish I could say otherwise, but i can't. I do have my good days (outnumber the bad) and sometime I have great days. But Its for fun now, and on the pro level, there would be to much pressure to keep it fun for me.
Not to say, I wouldnt LOVE the chance to play Efren, when I am on 100%, just to see what I could do in the long run....
I am usually a apa 7/8 and vnea 8/9.
As for being in the pro-level. In all honesty, not a chance. Maybe years ago when I was younger and had it together more. But now, the mental game would eventually get me. I wish I could say otherwise, but i can't. I do have my good days (outnumber the bad) and sometime I have great days. But Its for fun now, and on the pro level, there would be to much pressure to keep it fun for me.
Not to say, I wouldnt LOVE the chance to play Efren, when I am on 100%, just to see what I could do in the long run....
World class shortstop seems to work for me. When I am in dead stroke I can control matches to the point that in a race to 9 my opponent never really gets to the table more then twice with a reasonable shot, 3 and 4 packs are common. Bar Box 8-ball when I am in dead stroke I can beat anyone regardless of how they shoot but that is such a game that there are thousands of players that the same is true for.
Of course that deadstroke "me" rarely shows up and could spot the normal "me" the called 6 out and win a good 50% of the time.
Of course that deadstroke "me" rarely shows up and could spot the normal "me" the called 6 out and win a good 50% of the time.
If I can get rid of the mental problems?
I don't want to be haughty here, because I think everyone else is being really honest, but I wouldn't hesitate to say world class. Of course, not many people have played the world class players. I've played a couple, hit my stride for a few racks and made it look as pretty/prettier than they did.
But I don't summon that effort on an every day basis like these guys do.
I don't want to be haughty here, because I think everyone else is being really honest, but I wouldn't hesitate to say world class. Of course, not many people have played the world class players. I've played a couple, hit my stride for a few racks and made it look as pretty/prettier than they did.
But I don't summon that effort on an every day basis like these guys do.
cuetechasaurus said:
If I'm in dead-stroke and feeling good about my game, I'm absolutely convinced I can still make anyone else here look like Efren Reyes....
Logical contradiction here?
If there are thousands of players like that, surely they must play each other frequently, ergo they must occasionally play each other while each competitor is in dead stroke, in which case both players WILL WIN regardless of how the other shoots?!? That would be quite some match. How do they decide who takes home the money?
I realize that exaggeration is a fact of life when you're listening to people talk about pool expertise (or fishing stories, or how fast their old project car used to run 1/4 mile, etc.) but I agree with cuetechasaurus about abuse of the concept of "unbeatable". It obscures the meaning of what you're trying to say because it can't possibly be true.
-Andrew
Celtic said:
If there are thousands of players like that, surely they must play each other frequently, ergo they must occasionally play each other while each competitor is in dead stroke, in which case both players WILL WIN regardless of how the other shoots?!? That would be quite some match. How do they decide who takes home the money?
I realize that exaggeration is a fact of life when you're listening to people talk about pool expertise (or fishing stories, or how fast their old project car used to run 1/4 mile, etc.) but I agree with cuetechasaurus about abuse of the concept of "unbeatable". It obscures the meaning of what you're trying to say because it can't possibly be true.
-Andrew
zeeder said:
Indeed, it seemed obvious to me.
Andrew, when a player gets to a certain level they get the ability to absolutely control a match such that their opponent never really gets an open shot in the entire set. They may not run every single rack, but those that they dont they are giving their opponent a single shot at a 3 rail kick just to hit the ball and sell out another 3 or 4 pack. They basically never give up true control of the table and as such their opponent never gets a viable shot to gain control in the entire match, they are always either sitting and watching their opponent run out or they are getting up to kick at some brutal hook that has no real return safety chances. You can see this happen all the time at the pro level. On a bar box it happens alot more, two players match up and one simply runs right over the other without the other getting to play. This came up on the "bst bar box player" thread, there is no "best" bar box player, any one of the top 10 guys have the ability to break and run the set and totally control the match on any of the others.
Last edited:
O
onepocketchump
Guest
Celtic said: