Tennesseejoe said:

If your normal bridge is 12" and your shaft has a pivot point of 12". What would be the effect when a player decides to get an LD 18" pivot point shaft and still maintain his 12" bridge length? What compensation would be needed?

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The REAL answer to that question is, 'it depends'. How seriously do you play and how much do you want to improve or at least maintain your game?

I mean the qualifying questions necessary to answer that question fully and comprehensibly is extensive.

Do you play with BHE, FHE, do you play by feel, do you use an aiming system. Do you play one pocket?

I mean the appropriate answer to that question depends on whether you're an apa 5 who just wants to play for league and an occasional fargo capped local tourney, bang em around with buddies twice a month, or whether you are a serious player and gambler looking to improve your game to the point that you're a threat in any match you play whether it be a regional tourney or a $500 a game one hole match.

Why are you looking to get a LD shaft would be one question. I ask this because there are normal deflection carbon fiber shafts that will play pretty close to your wood shaft if you're just looking for the advantages of CF...

Frosty said:

I see your point as he’s had achievements, just not what he had the potential to have. It’s almost like after a few milestones were achieved, he just drifted in the prime years of his career and has now just become fat and surly.

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Some of us are far and surly and never had any milestones.

I found my way to this thread while trying to identify a Mali I recently picked up, and based on the prior comments and observations here, I believe this one is a T-11 Trophy Series cue.

It has the green Mali logo, four dark points into highly figured maple, stitch rings, a stainless piloted joint, and what appears to be the original shaft. The cue is in exceptionally good condition for its age, with only very minor handling marks.

What really compelled me to reply, though, was the discussion about the linen wrap. This cue also appears to have the linen finished over rather than left raw. The linen texture is still clearly visible, but there is a definite sealed/glossed surface over it, which seems very similar to the wrap treatment discussed earlier in this thread.

Another interesting detail is that the stainless joint collar is engraved lengthwise:

MELVIN “RED” LEEDY

I have not yet been able to determine who he was or whether the cue was specifically ordered for him.

For reference, the cue measures 57¾” assembled and weighs approximately 20.1 oz. The butt rolls flat. The shaft shows some taper roll, but there is no tip lift either separately or assembled.

I thought the finished-over-linen treatment was interesting enough, especially in light of the earlier discussion here, to add this example to the thread.

Collection Spotlight #1: The "Holy Grail" Gandy HC-140 Ebony Titlist Conversion

To kick off the showcase section of this history thread, I want to start with a true unicorn in my collection. This is an undocumented, uncataloged Gandy HC-140 built using a genuine Brunswick Ebony Titlist house cue conversion blank.

A Tribute to a Legend: Dick Abbott
I acquired this incredible cue back in 2018 directly from the late Dick Abbott (billiardcue.com / CuePics.com). Dick was a master cue appraiser, historian, and a true pioneer in digital pool cue photography. In a 2018 interview, Dick recalled his introduction to high-end collectible wood:

"John Oganowski... first introduced me to custom cues in the mid 1980s, I was immediately attracted to the playability, the feel and audible tone of the finest instruments and I still am. I was playing with a Gus Szamboti Titlist conversion at that time."

Because he played with a Titlist conversion himself, he immediately recognized the historical significance of this early Gandy version when it surfaced.

The Art of the Image
The exceptional showcase photos attached to this post were taken by Dick himself. His work captured the true soul of a cue, which he noted was an exhausting technical battle against reflections:

"Cues are really hard to photograph because they are long and skinny. Glare is a big problem because of the finish on the cues... Photoshop is a necessity, I actually spend more time editing the pictures than I do taking them... to make the cues look their best. I remove the original background, eliminate dust spots, correct the color so the cue that is in my hand matches the image on the computer screen..."

Keeping this cue preserved in my collection is a direct tribute to Dick's immense impact on our hobby and his commitment to documenting cue history.

Technical & Forensic Breakdown

• The Blank: A true four-point old-stock Brunswick Ebony Titlist blank. The rich, dense ebony splice contrasts beautifully with the sharp Titlist veneers.
• The Joint Configuration: Early-era production standard featuring a polished stainless steel joint.
• The Shaft Insert: True to the original 1971–1973 Macon production line, it features a piloted aluminum insert embedded cleanly inside the female wood shaft threads.
• The Wrap: Original period-correct factory nylon (Dacron?) wrap, providing a fantastic tactile window into how some of these custom shop anomalies rolled out of the Macon factory.
• The Butt Cap: A flush, white bumperless butt cap featuring the exact standardized internal weight-bolt threading system common across my early Gandy fleet.

This cue stands as a remarkable physical record of custom workshop experimentation from the early 1970s transition window. It bridges the gap between traditional house cue conversions and the high-volume commercial lines Gandy was rolling out to fulfill their massive pool table contracts.

Cuaba said:

View attachment 931527

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Took me 30 years to figure out he was saying used to sit by him in class.

I thought it was 'used to shoot vitamins ass'


dare you to listen to it now ^^^^^^and not hear that....

skip100 said:

Wasted talent seems a bit much, but more than a grain of truth there.

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I see your point as he’s had achievements, just not what he had the potential to have. It’s almost like after a few milestones were achieved, he just drifted in the prime years of his career and has now just become fat and surly.

Chili Palmer said:

I 100% agree with you on them being over protective as I discussed in this thread years ago.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/jb-ultímate-rugged-case-a-testimonial.566337/

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For extreme conditions, extreme protection is needed. I don't ride bikes, I don't jump of planes, I don't rattle my case while its upside down with the lid open, so I don't need extreme protection, the average player doesn't either. I need good protection and modern practicality preferred to be packaged in a good looking case.

I wish that JB would offer different types of interiors to choose from because other then that his cases are great and he does offer lot's of customization just not for the interior.

A Chronological Roster of National & Gandy Cue Makers

As we track the evolution of these cues, the human history is just as fascinating as the wood and steel. Based on historical records and incredible firsthand validation from forum members, here is the chronological roster of the craftsmen who built the foundation of the Chicago-to-Macon manufacturing pipeline:

1. The Chicago Era (Foundational Setup & Early Production)

• Ben Nartzik: Hall of Fame figure who founded the National Billiard Chalk Company in Chicago, operating out of the historic 1948 W. Fulton St. facility.
• Leland Taylor: Took over active management of the Chicago firm following Nartzik, later orchestrating the massive physical factory relocation down to Georgia.
• Richard Helmstetter: The master designer hired in Chicago to officially establish National’s dedicated cue-making division, mentoring a generation of young builders before moving to Japan to launch Adam Cues.
• Wayne Gunn: Worked directly alongside Helmstetter on the early Chicago cue-making lines before becoming a highly respected independent custom cuemaker.
• Rigoberto "Ricco" Cervantes: Began his cue-making journey under Helmstetter's guidance in Chicago from 1967 to 1969 before anchoring the southern operation.
• Craig Peterson: Operated on the Chicago setup during this foundational window alongside Helmstetter and Cervantes before rising to custom cue fame.
• Bob Meucci: Took over the reins of the National Tournament Chalk cue department in 1968. It was here that he perfected his seamless plastic/vinyl veneer point blanks before leaving to launch B.M.C. in 1969.

2. The 1967 Relocation Crew (The Transition Team)

• Bill Smith ("Mr. 3 Cushion"): Mapped out the actual machinery transition on-site during the critical 1967 plant migration alongside Helmstetter and Peterson, bridging the physical infrastructure gap between the Chicago layout and the new Macon footprint.

3. The Macon, Georgia Era (Unified Gandy Production)

• Roy Gandy: President and owner of Gandy’s Industries and Macon Billiard Supply Co. at 510 11th Street. He completely bought out National in December 1971.
• Kim Gandy: Roy Gandy's son, placed in active charge of managing the specialized National Chalk division after the 1971 consolidation.
• Rigoberto "Ricco" Cervantes (Macon Window: 1969–1973): Relocated from Chicago to Macon to serve as Gandy’s head cue master. He ran the automated lines and implemented rigid inspection standards until returning to his tool-and-die career in 1973.

4. The Late 1970s Outsource Era (The Wisconsin Shift)

• Gordon Hart: Owner of Viking Cue in Madison, Wisconsin. His shop took over manufacturing responsibilities via a corporate production contract once Gandy stopped running their cue lathes locally in Macon.

If anyone has additional names, corrections, or stories to add to these eras, please drop them in!

qolbrand said:

somebody should do a jb case time capsule to settle this once and for all.

jam a bunch of different cases full of old cues. Old shafts that still havent warped after years.

roll em all, check the wobble, film it, seal em shut for a year.

open er up and recheck the wobbles on film.

it honestly seems like the kind of test mister barton might do himself.

i’d bet theres no change. but i could be wrong.

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I don't think or claim that once inside the case, the cues are not protected, problem is when getting them in and out of the case, you might chip the finish as they bump into each other from the tightness and the pressure.
I have a Schon LTD that the engraved logo was coloroed in white and the color faded away since I used the JB to carry it. the friction of getting it in and out must have took the color off, what will it do to a cue finish over time?

I've also had cues damaged while stored for many years in a case that was a previous endeavor of JB, the dye of the dividers was passed on to the cues. it was not a JB case but a case he engineered and designed for Sterling using the same interior he used in his GTF cases (before JB).
I know that the interior today is not the same, it was changed and improve, but was it tested for the above issue? I don't know. warranty won't help much if a one of a kind cue might get damaged in storage. I have a vinyl Instroke that stored cues for the same duration, both were kept at the same place and no issues.

InsertCleverNameHere said:

I probably watch more pool matches than 90-95% of folks on here. Packages aren't the problem people make them out to be. It's pretty rare actualy that anyone and I mean anyone runs 4 racks. 2 does happen a lot but 3 is not something you should expect to see in any tournament match you watch in fact I'd lay odds against 3 consecutive break and runs anytime. Especially in tournament settings with all the starting and stopping. 9 ball is fine.

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Exactly. The truth is that 9ball isn't broken, at least not in WNT competition.

kcdamon said:

ok thank you

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There might be someone here to help you with your lathe upgrades

InsertCleverNameHere said:

I probably watch more pool matches than 90-95% of folks on here. Packages aren't the problem people make them out to be. It's pretty rare actualy that anyone and I mean anyone runs 4 racks. 2 does happen a lot but 3 is not something you should expect to see in any tournament match you watch in fact I'd lay odds against 3 consecutive break and runs anytime. Especially in tournament settings with all the starting and stopping. 9 ball is fine.

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When the texas open was one on the spot with a magic rack(no 3 point), I saw bergman break and run 8 from the lag. 9th game he rattled the wing ball. He posted on fb that he had 23 break and runs over the course of 3 matches which were race to 9.

I also saw Shane McMinn with 7 break and runs in a row in same tournament.

mr3cushion said:

I worked at National with Dick Helmsteter and Craig Peterson in 67 from 8 am-12 noon!

No, he may have worked there, but I didn't know him!

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I added you to the history. LINK

epoxypop said:

Dude Briaa passed away a few years ago and you are replying to a post from 2018 i believe

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ok thank you