fastone371 said:

Shane's selling price in the calcutta was half of the potential first place payout???

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It's Shane. On a bar table. Vs amateurs.
It's not exactly a lock but...not far off

George the Greek said:

Thanks! I'm just experimenting and found it weird how it reversed after going basically 18 ft. It's a 2 rail kick that I like

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That would probably be the lack of cushion induced spin although, the angle should widen anyway from the extra bend on the second rail. It's hard to tell without the left and right of it.

Running spin might not grab enough; making the exit look like a reverse, etc... By the same token actual reverse (anti running) spin can hold through several rails until it gets some some grip and pulls a reverse. This is common in pro billiards where the cloth speed is severely disproportionate to the more or less fixed, ball/stick speed.

This thread is TDLR; as far as I can tell, so I will try to summarize:

1. There is no Diamond lease / share profits program that I could find. They do have a financing program listed here:
   
   

   No Excuse Financing

   Diamond Billiard Products

   diamondbilliards.com
2. Many local operators / vendors (not manufacturers) seem to offer either revenue sharing or lease / rental programs for both Valley and possibly Diamond tables. For example, this site:
   
   

   Valley Coin-Operated Pool Tables for Rent | Player Two

   Transform your space with Player Two's customizable Valley coin-operated pool tables. Perfect for bars and pool halls. Start the fun and boost your revenue today!

   www.playertwo.com
3. I have played on some very nice Valley tables in my 50+ years of playing pool if they are maintained and setup correctly with quality rails plus high grade felt and if the foundations of the tables are sound (rail bolts tighten correctly, slate and its bed are not damaged or warped, pockets are in excellent condition, etc.). Yes, they are not Diamonds, but not every bar wants or needs Diamond tables.
4. On ball sets: Yes, the default Aramith Premier line with the modified stripe balls and the green Valley cougar cue ball (mud ball) can get quite tired over multiple years of use. My recommendation is to get a personal set of Dynasphere Bronze / Vanadium balls for players that care about the hit of a quality set of balls and usually have a quality cue stick or two (one for breaking) that they travel with to one or more bars. But there are some considerations to make when bringing your own balls with your other usual hardware:
   1. The bar table's ball return might not be open and your cue ball does not come down the ball return if a scratch is made. Solutions are:
      1. Use the green Valley cougar cue ball (ugh).
      2. Upgrade to the purple Valley cougar cue ball (a little better one that is labeled as tournament quality and will work with the ball return). Here is a link:
         
         

         Tournament Purple Logo Aramith Magnetic Cue Ball

         This cue ball is made for coin op tables that return the ball at the break end. It does not have the magnet in the middle of the ball however.

         seyberts.com
   2. Look for bars that offer free pool with ball returns open to use your own set or ask the owners if you can rent the table with the ball return opened so you can use your own set. They even might let you keep your ball set behind the bar so you do not have to travel with it (this is what I do and we use either a red circle cue ball or the included Dynaspheres cue ball).

And on a closing note, most bar owners don't really care about the condition of their bar tables. And if they do, they charge more for pool or drinks / food or both. It is about a $1000 on the west coast to do an 8 foot Valley table for quality rails and felt including proper labor and setup. That can be a big hit if an owner has multiple tables that get a good amount of play. Even a bigger hit to the owner if there are clueless players spilling drinks, trying jump or masse shots incorrectly or just sitting on the tables which all result in premature wear and damage.

Bump.

straightline said:

Friction is reduced so the ball slides more. Backspin holds longer so draw will require less. By the same token follow shots may require a smoother stroke due to the lack of bite off the line. IOW the ball would rather slide than hook up to perfect rolling. The ball will also die more off the cushions.

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Thanks! I'm just experimenting and found it weird how it reversed after going basically 18 ft. It's a 2 rail kick that I like

Chopdoc said:

So, "no" is the answer.

Why? Only you could answer that.

Obviously it would be some variation of personal preference but you have none.

As you explained, the equipment is consistent, so your preference is consistent.

For the record, that's what I expected, but you responded to me as if I would think otherwise.

AI can't answer questions about your personal preference so I wouldn't bother to read any of that.

Click to expand...

I've given 'My' Specs on cues and why!

Better yet, I 'Know why'!

That's All that counts, right!

Explain this here that You typed!

The physics and geometry of cue control are pretty basic.

JolietJames said:

So the breaker had a 59% win rate in the tournaments used as examples.
This makes it sound like alternate break and winner break is somewhat even when it comes to outcome.
Is this due to all the break rules that have been put in place over the years?
What was the breaker win % without rule changes like the 3-point rule, break box, etc.?

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you can find atlarge's break statistics going back 10+ years at dr daves website

jay helfert said:

Diamond bar tables are real pool tables, not adult toys. They are a big step up from what came before them.

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Yeah, have you ever seen a mud cue ball on a Diamond? I bet not, lol.

Black-Balled said:

I been thinking about this and maybe it isn't a great as it sounds.

What if you're mad at pool when he shows up?

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Just hide behind the couch and pretend nobody is home. It works for me. Just don't get caught looking out the window when your checking to see if they left.

mr3cushion said:

No, for what reason would 'I' do that?

Modern day 3C tables/rubber/Cloths all play 95% the 'Same' speed!

Some 3C tables have longer/shorter 'angles' according to the 'Mechanic' that set them up!

Why do 'You' think over 95% of 3C players use rubber grips?

I know, just wondering if 'You' have a logical thought on it!


Maybe the AI's answer is More to Your liking!

'Q' Why do 3 cushion players use rubber grips on their cue?

AI Overview


Three-cushion billiard players use rubber or silicone grips on their cues to get a tackier, non-slip feel that improves stroke stability and hand control. [1, 2]

Main Reasons for Rubber Grips

• • Better Traction with Sweat: Rubber and silicone wraps grip the hand firmly even when palms perspire during long or intense matches. [1, 2]
  • Loose Grip Control: Three-cushion strokes require a very relaxed, gentle grip to allow smooth follow-through and delicate touch. A rubber surface prevents the cue from slipping or wobbling without needing a tight, tense hand. [1, 2, 3]
  • Customizing Handle Thickness: Many carom cues have thin, unwrapped wood handles. Rolling on a rubber or silicone grip increases the diameter to fit the player's hand size more comfortably. [1]
  • Vibration and Comfort: Rubber absorbs some of the shock and vibration from the hit, reducing hand fatigue over hours of play. [1]

Click to expand...

So, "no" is the answer.

Why? Only you could answer that.

Obviously it would be some variation of personal preference but you have none.

As you explained, the equipment is consistent, so your preference is consistent.

For the record, that's what I expected, but you responded to me as if I would think otherwise.

AI can't answer questions about your personal preference so I wouldn't bother to read any of that.

Fore Rail said:

Say you put two balls together, one object ball & one ghost ball. Take another ball & hit that ghost ball on the top - creating a mark on the cloth beneath. Put a hole punch sticker on that spot. If a player can't find that point / line then there isn't much hope. One can even create a little fudge factor for collision induce throw.

It doesn't get any simpler than that & is 100% effective.

Human error is the cause of all difficulty in this game & others. Believe it or not it's not the equipment being played with or on either.

Click to expand...

Yes, another thing is picking a point to aim at exactly half a ball behind the object ball in line with the destination. Again though, it takes visual spatial acuity to do that successfully.

Some people used to mark the table at that spot by over chalking their cue and placing at that point while apparently lining up the shot or by placing a piece of chalk on the rail in line with that.