InsertCleverNameHere said:

SJM, what would you say is the minimum for WORLD CLASS speed today? Use a player we all know if you can think of one. Brandon Shuff? Josh Roberts? Like John Morra is probably solidly in for world class speed but how much does he make a year in tournaments really? I'm too lazy for research.

Sure, the money in pool is better than it used to be, but it's still not much. And it still only goes to the very very best. Prize money beyond top 4 in events is hardly enough to cover expenses for most events

I bet most people in the forum would look at a salary under 6 figures as being not enough. Now make 40-80,000 or less and add to that 3-5 dozen flights and hotels etc and you're downright destitute.

It'll likely never happen but until 2000 people or so can make 200,000 or more per year(in today's economy) doing it, it's downright a hobby for most of them.

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Great question. No matter how I answer this, I'll offend somebody, but I'm going to answer anyway. I'm only considering the question as it relates to men's 9ball and 10ball.

I think the cutoff these days is about Fargo 780, although there are young players on the horizon that are near certain to get there such as Pongers, Vogel, Gangflot, Verner and many others. A veteran player who is a little less than Fargo 780 is borderline. Billy Thorpe, who will turn 30 this summer, and is one of my favorite players, seems a good example of borderline world class, a guy who could conceivably make a deep run at a major championship but in practice nearly never does. At 778, he is the world's 160th best player based on Fargo. Obviously, Billy is world class and then some at both bank pool and one pocket.

I don't think how many can make a living at pro pool is what matters. In my opinion, what matters is whether an aspiring pro knows how many can do so. If the answer today is only about 50, then a person considering pro pool as a career must assess whether they can become a top 50 player and, if not, whether they can a) secure sufficient sponsorships, b) get paid appearances, and/or c) give lessons to give them some financial stability and continuity.

... and, finally, just like you, I have always referred to the many who compete at the highest level without a realistic chance of making an income as hobbyists. To be fair, though, many a hobbyist can turn a decent profit in regional and local tournaments and in league play.

Bob Jewett said:

I hope the WPC moves back to Cardiff. I could go for that again.

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then you can visit the great hoax of the giant.

Half time score indicates Ronnie is ready.

you guys would be great giving a youngster ideas on how to walk. make sure you also make him wear a helmet as he will need it.

Another consideration in all of this is comparing the prospects of a young American player versus a European player. All of the European countries have a socialist system some even bordering on communism. For better or for worse a young person in Europe has all of their living essentials provided by the state. The flip side of it is if they go to college and pursue a career and are successful they end up giving most of their earnings back to the government which isn’t much of an incentive to work hard. Their challenge is to generate money for travel and entry expenses. In America a pool player makes it by having private benefactors especially if they are more on the gambling end of the game. That makes for a very insecure and volatile personal finance situation. How many of these players ever make it on winnings alone? Few to none in my estimation.

middleofnowhere said:

The gambling trap is this. The economics are so much different than the paid by hour job. When a guy wins 2 or $300.00 or even a thousand in a night or two. It's pretty tough to go back to work at a $15 an hour job.

I'm not saying that the gambling is better than the job certainly is not. What I'm saying is it messes with ones mind.

To skip back to a previous post by someone discussing ai and jobs. We've come full circle. Years ago a guy was always told to learn a trade. And later you were told it's better to work with your brain and with your hands.

Like I said we've come full circle. If a guy wants a steady job learn a trade. There's no AI that can install plumbing do carpentry, electrical work fixing an air conditioner and so on. And there's nothing to stop you once you're in that trade from ultimately having people working for you. There's really no limits how far you can go in a service business.

You have to be able to generate your income yourself and not depend on someone else. I had a lawn service business when I was in my teens making more money than my teachers. I owned a pool room when I was 25. I've only had a couple of jobs in my whole life.

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I agree with that assessment in the short term, plumbers/carpenters etc "can't be replaced" But I think that's only in the near future. Looking down the line a bit, I don't believe that at all. My first grandson was just born and I fear there won't be any sort of job for him in 20 years.

Robotics and general automation has come a long way in a short time. It's not right in front of you yet so it's not on our radar so to speak. And it has done so without AI being on board. Now that AGI is the goal for all these global tech corporations, expect to robotics to be kicked into overdrive with the goal of replacing ALL HUMAN LABOR this is the only way these companies can turn a profit and that is absolutely their only goal damn the fallout/consequences. I could talk/complain about this all day. The future is quite BLEAK no matter what path you choose I'm afraid.

NEW LOWER PRICE —-NEED TO MOVE THIS CUE

iusedtoberich said:

Another perspective is if this was a 25 year old, it wouldn't be a big deal, right? We'd all be tuning in without judgment. What's the difference between 16 and 25? Yes, I KNOW there is some difference. But when it comes down to it, I personally don't think my brain was much different at 16 vs 25 vs 47 I am now. I liked pool then and was gambling what I had in my pocket. I like pool now and still do the same.

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The gambling trap is this. The economics are so much different than the paid by hour job. When a guy wins 2 or $300.00 or even a thousand in a night or two. It's pretty tough to go back to work at a $15 an hour job.

I'm not saying that the gambling is better than the job certainly is not. What I'm saying is it messes with ones mind.

To skip back to a previous post by someone discussing ai and jobs. We've come full circle. Years ago a guy was always told to learn a trade. And later you were told it's better to work with your brain and with your hands.

Like I said we've come full circle. If a guy wants a steady job learn a trade. There's no AI that can install plumbing do carpentry, electrical work fixing an air conditioner and so on. And there's nothing to stop you once you're in that trade from ultimately having people working for you. There's really no limits how far you can go in a service business.

You have to be able to generate your income yourself and not depend on someone else. I had a lawn service business when I was in my teens making more money than my teachers. I owned a pool room when I was 25. I've only had a couple of jobs in my whole life.