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Steel Joint vs. non-steel Joint (Phenolic / Juma / Elforyn / Ivory) – Which Do You Prefer?

Bavafongoul
14oneman said:
I've tried, on various brands of cues, (none that I've owned), just about every joint you've mentioned, and nothing feels better to me, than a piloted, stainless steel joint...it's worked best for me, for all of the 63+ years, I've been playing...
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I felt the same way until 2004 and I started playing pool in NYC in 1962 after turning 16 so I didn’t need a parent or guardian to accompany me. Then I played pool with a Tim Scruggs radial pin flat ivory joint pool cue that weighed
2 ozs. Lighter than my custom built Runde Schon completed in 1985. The difference in cue ball control. the feel of
the hit and the sound with ivory ferrules vs, Micarta on my Schon, I knew this was a combination that was magical.

So if you haven’t played a Scruggs radial pin flat ivory joint cue that weighs more than 18 ozs and less than 19 ozs.,
you missed the opportunity to find out there is something that plays better than what you endorse. And thanks to the AI article, flat ivory joints are recognized to play different which I happen to like but maybe it’s because my cue was built by Tim Scruggs. I don’t think so cuz there are other cues in my case that have the same specs and play just as sweet. Anyway, there is just something about my Scruggs cue that makes me favor it over my other cues.
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Pro Pocket Size TOO Small for 9 Ball

L
SEB said:
4 inches is too small. Been preaching this for years. Nobody wants to listen. Even Neils has talked about it.

It makes entire families of shots unplayable. There’s some shots that remain unaffected other than simply needing to be more precise but there are a boat load of shots that become simply unplayable. And because of this, it lends itself to favor a certain style of player while completely eliminating other types of players from even competing for titles. Slow rolling position play experts now have such an advantage over a power breaking shot maker. It’s as simple as that. Styles makes fights…and the small pockets have shackled the shot makers because even they can’t overcome the demands of the table. So what do we get from this? No differing styles…Just a bunch of soft hitting fundamental robots because there’s no incentive to play any other way.

you can’t cheat a pocket, you can’t force a ball, you can’t bank at most shots, hell…half the time you can’t even play for the side pockets anymore! Players are literally changing position routes to play for corners so they can hit pocket speed and use the new cloth to soft slide it in. The game is such a joke.

And the worst part about it is that if you don’t play a power game then you won’t be able to relate to anything I’m saying here because what you’re watching the pros do is just a more refined version of your push…push…push…stop shot…push style of game. If you have that Ralph Souquet style of play then it’s going to be hard for you to conceptualize that there is an entirely different way to see, process, and play the game. And as the years go by and more and more juniors are taught this soft play style, the more that the power play/run and gun style will just quietly disappear into obscurity. And no one will even notice because the in the future it will be baked into the cake. Meaning the pocket size will, over time, eliminate the need for the shot maker type player to even exist.

And also at some point we need to address the absurdity of playing on brand new cloth for each tournament. That also takes away a bunch of available shots and waters down the game further.
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The elite players are making all kinds of shots on those 4 inch pockets. Fedor Gorst ran 6s racks in a row not too long ago.

I do agree though, that the extremely fast cloth is unneeded.
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Pro Pocket Size TOO Small for 9 Ball

S
4 inches is too small. Been preaching this for years. Nobody wants to listen. Even Neils has talked about it.

It makes entire families of shots unplayable. There’s some shots that remain unaffected other than simply needing to be more precise but there are a boat load of shots that become simply unplayable. And because of this, it lends itself to favor a certain style of player while completely eliminating other types of players from even competing for titles. Slow rolling position play experts now have such an advantage over a power breaking shot maker. It’s as simple as that. Styles makes fights…and the small pockets have shackled the shot makers because even they can’t overcome the demands of the table. So what do we get from this? No differing styles…Just a bunch of soft hitting fundamental robots because there’s no incentive to play any other way.

you can’t cheat a pocket, you can’t force a ball, you can’t bank at most shots, hell…half the time you can’t even play for the side pockets anymore! Players are literally changing position routes to play for corners so they can hit pocket speed and use the new cloth to soft slide it in. The game is such a joke.

And the worst part about it is that if you don’t play a power game then you won’t be able to relate to anything I’m saying here because what you’re watching the pros do is just a more refined version of your push…push…push…stop shot…push style of game. If you have that Ralph Souquet style of play then it’s going to be hard for you to conceptualize that there is an entirely different way to see, process, and play the game. And as the years go by and more and more juniors are taught this soft play style, the more that the power play/run and gun style will just quietly disappear into obscurity. And no one will even notice because the in the future it will be baked into the cake. Meaning the pocket size will, over time, eliminate the need for the shot maker type player to even exist.

And also at some point we need to address the absurdity of playing on brand new cloth for each tournament. That also takes away a bunch of available shots and waters down the game further.
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How many cues is too much?

skor
R2PQZ said:
You can't eat pool cues. The real issue is the economy. Nothing but uncertainty. If and when the economy improves collecting cues will prevail. Fuel costs have risen to the point where a tank of gas requires a bank loan.
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it's more complicated then that. cue collecting is a dying art and cue collectors are a dying bread.
Young people don't care about these things.
And the original reason for custom cue making (to make better playing cue compared to what was offered as production cues) is irrelevant these days as there are great production cues out these, some of them are even cheap and today's young players want the cue that their favorite player is using.
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physical consequences of cue balance point location

Bob Jewett
bbb said:
read post #104 above
he mentions how its not just the weight and balance but how the weight is distributed
that could be why your 2 cues dont feel the same
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That difference between two cues is going to be very, very difficult to notice. If you had a piston stroke, it would be impossible to notice, because the stick is not rotated perpendicular to its long axis.

With a pendulum stroke, the stick is rotated some in the vertical plane, and the weight distribution would cause the cue to be slightly harder or easier to rotate.

If you wanted to put a number on that weight distribution, you could put a pin through the balance point -- drill a hole through the stick at the balance point -- and measure how hard it is to spin the cue stick around that pin, using the pin as an axle.

But with anything close to a normal cue construction, any such change in feel is going to be way, way below the change in feel from the location of the balance point.

For those interested in the technical details, try searching on "second mass moment of inertia of a tapered rod".
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