JB Cases said:
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John what does inherently better mean in the above context?
I have been a dealer for Mace Jump break cues since 2003, when did Rick get his first piece of Stainless Steel from you? Oh, and by the way NO Asian Jump Break cue is made to the Quality Control Standards, Quality of Material Standards that Rick uses to build his Jump Break cues.
Thanks for your opinions John, but the above are mine and they are based upon my experience doing repairs. I also know that your opinions are based on your experience which is in many areas but arguing these points will get you no where, I no what I see and I have know Corporate reason to be bias.
Have a good night John!!!!!!!!!
If you are a dealer of Mace cues then you also have a bias to tout a brand you sell over one you don't.
Inherently better means that in a controlled experiment designed to show off how the cues perform under the same conditions then one should show better performance. I have a list of jump shots that are all shots which come up in game situations over and over. I contend that there is no jump cue that is inherently better at all the shots than the Fury. Some like the ultra-lights are somewhat better at the super closeup shots and then not better at the longer shots where more control is needed. However even here it is my experience (gleaned from the countless exhibitions and jump clinics I have done) that technique plays a big part.
As for the break I submit that the break is more a matter of personal ability and timing rather than the cue. I have never felt and never will that one cue "breaks" better than another one. However I think that some cues can propel the ball faster due to the tip and the taper. Thus it is possible in theory that the cue ball can be made to go into the rack at a faster speed with less applied force with some break cues.
I don't think that there is any significant difference between the Fury Break cue and others but I would be the first to admit I was wrong if someone, anyone, could show it on tape in a controlled manner.
Back to quality of Chinese cues.
I am sure that they do keep you in business with repairs. Cues are a collection of parts that don't want to be together, wood, plastic and steel. But since you don't actually know what adhesives are in use, (do you?) I think that you are not qualified to state categorically that Chinese cues are all made to lower quality standards. If so then the it's to the standards set by WELL KNOWN and HIGHLY REGARDED cue makers from the USA.
And as I said before the Chinese cue making industry is grown up now. The cues on the market however are ones that span 30 years. So a cue made ten years ago is likely to be in bad shape whereas one made this year may still be in great shape ten years from now.
But I will concede that there are a lot of smaller factories who don't have the benefit of being trained by America's best cue makers. They don't have the access to good wood and parts like the bigger ones do. So yes, there are a lot of cues coming in and being sold that aren't made to the highest standards, those being the standards that the American cue makers build to.
So people should stick to the brands which are backed by reputable companies like Sterling whose cues come from Kao Kao.
Rick got his first piece of stainless steel from me in 1991 when I was in Ft. Walton Beach (I mistakenly said Panama City earlier) visiting a friend. I had a hunk of stainless that was the jump handle of a jump cue I owned. I traded it to Rick for a rewrap on one of my cues.
I agree with you though that a Mace break jump cue is a GREAT cue to own. As are the Lomax break jumps and the Joe Piccone break jumps among others I have owned.
John[/QUOTE]
If you are a dealer of Mace cues then you also have a bias to tout a brand you sell over one you don't.
No John, that is not the case at all in fact it is for from it. When I sell products I personally stand behind the quality of those products myself. My above statement only covers cues that cost above $100, so I tout nothing because if I sell it and it doesn't stand the test, I will fix it free or replace it at my discretion. So, while I do sell Asian cues I only sell those which I have had success with through trail and error, those that are under $100, those with some type of warranty, and outside of the warranty I offer no guaranty. Now this doesn't include Predator, Tiger, Lucasi or other limited Chinese brands due to their warranties which they back up faithfully and only at a customers request. Beyond that there is no reason to buy Pool Cues made outside the USA unless they are beginners cues, this country has far to many good production company's to choose from who Guaranty their products.
I mean why would anyone want to send their money overseas in the first place when they can invest it where they live.
Inherently better means that in a controlled experiment designed to show off how the cues perform under the same conditions then one should show better performance. I have a list of jump shots that are all shots which come up in game situations over and over. I contend that there is no jump cue that is inherently better at all the shots than the Fury. Some like the ultra-lights are somewhat better at the super closeup shots and then not better at the longer shots where more control is needed. However even here it is my experience (gleaned from the countless exhibitions and jump clinics I have done) that technique plays a big part.
John we are not selling used cars here, we are selling pool cues. Controlled experiments are just that CONTROLLED, and basically the statements made are hype and nothing else. Cues are tools no matter how they perform under controlled conditions, any machine used for the tests can not allow for the Human factor. In the end equipment is secondary to mechanics, and one's ability to use it.
I am sure that they do keep you in business with repairs. Cues are a collection of parts that don't want to be together, wood, plastic and steel. But since you don't actually know what adhesives are in use, (do you?) I think that you are not qualified to state categorically that Chinese cues are all made to lower quality standards. If so then the it's to the standards set by WELL KNOWN and HIGHLY REGARDED cue makers from the USA.
I don't need to know what Adhesives they use, and this go's for KAO KAO they don't hold well. I know for fact that Players, Lucasi, Falcon, Predator, and many others that are made at KAO KAO have problems with wraps coming loose, whatever, they are using doesn't dry, expose it to any heat and wala loose wrap. I also see but caps coming loose, Joint collars coming loose, ferrules coming loose, all do to adhesives that don't take heat well, not from other forms of damage. I also see Finishes that are not thick enough and that have not adhered because of improper preparation of the surface. Finishes that are not compatible with stains used for changing the color of woods. Predator is especially notorious for this problem, their lower end cues that are Black / Falk Ebony are actually Maple that has been colored and finished. The finish on these cues self destructs if it is chipped or nicked in any way, I could go on and on, however, I do not need to, enough people know exactly what I am talking about. In the end these things are not on Par with American Production cue makers and only the future will tell if they ever will be.
Rick got his first piece of stainless steel from me in 1991 when I was in Ft. Walton Beach (I mistakenly said Panama City earlier) visiting a friend. I had a hunk of stainless that was the jump handle of a jump cue I owned. I traded it to Rick for a rewrap on one of my cues.
John, Rick Howard starting making Jump Break cues in 1987 / 1988 time frame. He was the first Cue maker to Make a Jump Break cue that broke down into three pieces specifically for that purpose. Now, I do not know what Stainless Steel has to do with but, it was not for his Jump Break cues.
John, like I said above there is absolutely no reason to buy products that are over $100, especially cues from Overseas. America has the best product facilities and the most experienced people in the world, and their products show it day after day. Now I will concede that many American Production Cue Companies are having import cues made overseas, however, this doesn't effect their main lines of cues because of the price range that the imports are in (0 to $149).
I for one will continue to support American Companies so long as their products are equal or better than those imported, so in my opinion this will be far into the foreseeable future.
Take care John
) Really hard too as you can see.