Absolutely. For what its worth I shoot about B speed.
How to win from here?
- Thread starter dan_boersma
- Start date
Absolutely. For what its worth I shoot about B speed.
id do the safe behind the 6 and then try and 3 foul em.....even if u dont break it up there are alot of safe opps in this rack with the 5 n 9 being huge after the first safe. u should be able to get behind it good and put the 2 back to where it started and hide it behind the 6 again. or the 8
How do you sell out? The 5/9 is still tied up...
Impossible. The 2 goes nowhere that high if you shoot at a speed to hold whitey behind blocker.
There's another reason to use it: you get more spin action. That's because the draw "drags" off some of the CB speed but it doesn't reduce the sidespin, so the CB has more spin-to-speed when it arrives at the OB and will get more action off the rail, hitting the 6 ball more full.
It's not necessary to hit softer or with more spin to get both these effects with drag draw. Drag draw does both things for you. If you use maximum tip offset with and without drag draw, you get "more than maximum" sidespin with drag draw. There are some position plays that can only be made with drag draw.
pj
chgo
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how much more swerve do you get with this kind of shot?
The first thing i saw was making the 2 and kicking the 6 into the 9 & 5.
If you dont get it that way, you maybe will have a good angle on the 3 to try again. If not you could play to 2 rail the 5 and stick the cue ball behind the 9 for safe.
If you dont get it that way, you maybe will have a good angle on the 3 to try again. If not you could play to 2 rail the 5 and stick the cue ball behind the 9 for safe.
That may be true, he might miss breaking out the 5/9 however, there's a reasonable chance he'll have perfect shape on the 3 to break it out anyway so why not?
The most important thing is, he's not going to be trapped. He'll have his options after the shot and can make a judgement call then.
That's what I like about that shot.
pj
chgo
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I'd cut the 2 with no english, go 1.5 table lengths back to center table, and play the 3 with inside english to break the 5 out. If I break them out, I'm very likely to have a good shot on the 4 and a runout.
If I don't get the breakout, I play the 4 and position the CB near center table to be able to graze the 5 thin, putting the 5 behind the 9 and the CB behind the 3. If he gives me BIH, I probably have a 5-9 combo, and if he makes a good hit, he breaks out the 5 for me.
-Andrew
If I don't get the breakout, I play the 4 and position the CB near center table to be able to graze the 5 thin, putting the 5 behind the 9 and the CB behind the 3. If he gives me BIH, I probably have a 5-9 combo, and if he makes a good hit, he breaks out the 5 for me.
-Andrew
From the looks of the cuetable layout, the 2 ball isn't a hanger. Its a pretty thin hit. If you hang the 2 and hold for the 3, it could be over. In person, it may be different, but on the computer, just seems like too aggressive to attack here for a B player. I think the safe move, is playing safe behind the 6. As a weaker player than Dan, for me, safe is the only reasonable option if Im shooting.
Alabanger
Registered
First time poster here - great site
For this scenario, if I was playing with not too much riding on the line except some pride, I'd go for the cut on the 2 and see how it goes.
For the money and/or title though, I'd park the cue ball behind the 6 and go for BIH. The slightly off-center shot required looks a higher percentage shot to me compared to cutting the 2. The cue ball has to have enough speed to pocket the ball regardless of the stroke and will retain much of that speed when it hits the cushion because of the thin cut. With BIH, setting up a carom to break apart the problem balls and still keep the cue ball in the right area shouldn't be a big problem.
For this scenario, if I was playing with not too much riding on the line except some pride, I'd go for the cut on the 2 and see how it goes.
For the money and/or title though, I'd park the cue ball behind the 6 and go for BIH. The slightly off-center shot required looks a higher percentage shot to me compared to cutting the 2. The cue ball has to have enough speed to pocket the ball regardless of the stroke and will retain much of that speed when it hits the cushion because of the thin cut. With BIH, setting up a carom to break apart the problem balls and still keep the cue ball in the right area shouldn't be a big problem.
This is a good point. It is difficult to judge how much of a cut there is on the 2ball so even a 5 degree difference between diagram and reality could change one's mind about the shot. It is, for what it's worth, only a diamond away from the pocket.
The solution dan is fishing for is definitely the shot, whether the 6 breaks the cluster or not.
The 6 acts as a stopper to keep the CB straight on the 3 (which is what happened in reality) or with a really nice fat hit, you end up slightly below the 3 (so you have a natural angle to sink the 3 and go into the cluster).
Or, you end up above the 3 and go 1 rail off the foot rail to go into the cluster. Getting straight in like he did is almost a worst case scenario and there is still a safety possibility if you don't like it.
The 6 acts as a stopper to keep the CB straight on the 3 (which is what happened in reality) or with a really nice fat hit, you end up slightly below the 3 (so you have a natural angle to sink the 3 and go into the cluster).
Or, you end up above the 3 and go 1 rail off the foot rail to go into the cluster. Getting straight in like he did is almost a worst case scenario and there is still a safety possibility if you don't like it.
Using drag draw pretty much guaranties that you'll get the full swerve effect for whatever shot you hit. How much more you get depends on how you were going to hit the shot without drag draw. If you were going to hit slowly anyway, then not as much difference - if you were going to hit faster, then more difference.
pj
chgo
I'm glad I read this entire thread before posting, because this is exactly what I was going to write. If you get the six to do your dirty work for you...great, but I would be playing for break-out position on the 3. I would probably not even hit the 2 ball shot hard enough to get the 6 to the cluster...I would use drag/draw/ninja/stealth/kill/spin to slow it down.
After all this discussion, here's what I'd really shoot:
In the end, I don't want to spin the CB if I don't have to, and it doesn't look like I have to here. The only reason I'm spinning the CB is if the 6 is closer than it looks like here - then I might try to hit the 6 a little fuller to avoid getting snookered on it.
pj
chgo
In the end, I don't want to spin the CB if I don't have to, and it doesn't look like I have to here. The only reason I'm spinning the CB is if the 6 is closer than it looks like here - then I might try to hit the 6 a little fuller to avoid getting snookered on it.
pj
chgo
This is a nice honest answer. There are a few pitfalls to maneuver here as well. For starters, you have to hit the 6ball very deliberately. Anything resembling a half-ball hit and you'll likely be hidden behind it. Breaking out the 5/9 will also be a bit unpredictable. Some players might have problems making any contact while some may have problems going into this cluster with enough force. All of this relies heavily on obtaining a decent angle on the 3ball. Too thick and you'll need a lot of punch. Too thin and you'll need a lot of spin. You need to fall just right.
Nothing wrong with this approach so long as you're prepared to switch to plan b the moment things go wrong.
Yep. My first shot depends on how close the 6 is to the 2. If it's too close for my plan, then I make sure I hit it full enough and hard enough to get it out of the way of my shot on the 3. But if it's that close, I'm not fighting it - for instance, I won't use inside spin to try to avoid the 6.
Well, you either need to fall just right or you need to be able to judge the various hits you need to cope with a less-than-perfect lie. I can hit the 9-5 from most likely places the CB will fall.
It would be harder for me to cope with everything going right. Plan B is my middle name.
ppbj
chgo
A lot of players have no idea how important this is. I mean, we all sit here and talk about shots like we all play perfect and really, none of us do. We have an idea in our heads on what we'd like to accomplish and we see ourselves being successful most of the time but when it matters, sometimes the "relatively easy" becomes challenging. The strongest players are often the ones that realize when they're out of line and properly assess the damage.
In this layout, the most important things are this:
1. Make the ball you're shooting
2. Make sure you can see the next shot
3. Have a plan in mind for dealing with the table's problem even if the plan is to decide later (preferrably before you're shooting at the 5).
After that, there are several ways to win this game and winning is always the right answer.