A couple of proposition bets

BillPorter

BillPorter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At the pool hall earlier today I was showing a guy a shot I used to bet on years ago. You place an object ball deep in a corner pocket, frozen to the jaw of the pocket, as show in the diagram below. The proposition is that you will three rail the cue ball into the pocket without the cue ball even touching the object ball. It may look almost impossible to someone who hasn't tried the shot, but given 20 or more attempts, it is probably better than an even money proposition on a table with large pockets.

In fact, if you have practiced the shot on a particular table, you might need only 10-15 attempts for a fair bet. The guy I was showing the shot to offered to give me 25 attempts to make the shot on a fairly tough Gold Crown table.

What is you opinion on the shot? What number of attempts would make for a fair bet? (Please excuse the small inaccuracies in the diagrams below; the angles are not exact.)



CueTable Help



If you win the bet on the three rail shot, and then offer to try to make a five rail version, as shown below, is this an easier or tougher proposition?


CueTable Help

 
On a table with 5" pockets, I'd love to get 20 shots. Tighten them up to 4.75" and all of sudden it gets very tough. 20 shots may not be enough, but 40 would. :rolleyes:
 
I don't know

I would probably be a "sucker" for this bet. I will try it tomorrow to see how may hundred times I need to hit the shot before being able to accomplish it.
Hell I may never be able to do it except by freak accident.

Kevin
 
jay helfert said:
On a table with 5" pockets, I'd love to get 20 shots. Tighten them up to 4.75" and all of sudden it gets very tough. 20 shots may not be enough, but 40 would. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the Gold Crown pockets were about 4.75", not much room for error. As you say, with 5" pockets, 20 tries is the nuts! I guess I shot the shot 15 or 20 times as we talked about it, so I had kind of "dial it in" by the time we made a small bet on the shot. I think I made it on the second try for the cash. On the five railer, he gave me 20 shots and I lost the bet. Then he gave me 25 and I made the shot on the 14th try. So we broke even on the 5 railer.
 
BillPorter said:
At the pool hall earlier today I was showing a guy a shot I used to bet on years ago. You place an object ball deep in a corner pocket, frozen to the jaw of the pocket, as show in the diagram below. The proposition is that you will three rail the cue ball into the pocket without the cue ball even touching the object ball. It may look almost impossible to someone who hasn't tried the shot, but given 20 or more attempts, it is probably better than an even money proposition on a table with large pockets.

In fact, if you have practiced the shot on a particular table, you might need only 10-15 attempts for a fair bet. The guy I was showing the shot to offered to give me 25 attempts to make the shot on a fairly tough Gold Crown table.

What is you opinion on the shot? What number of attempts would make for a fair bet? (Please excuse the small inaccuracies in the diagrams below; the angles are not exact.)



CueTable Help



If you win the bet on the three rail shot, and then offer to try to make a five rail version, as shown below, is this an easier or tougher proposition?


CueTable Help

Click to expand...

I used to do it but I would throw the cue ball with my hand.
 
macguy said:
I used to do it but I would throw the cue ball with my hand.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have done it that way too, but I am less consistent with my hand.

To the uninitiated, the shot just looks ridiculously difficult, if not impossible. I recall one guy, many years ago, who offered to give me 100 tries!

Of course, as all of you seasoned players/gamblers know, it is never a good idea to bet someone on THEIR proposition! I believe there was a line on the old Maverick TV show where Bret (or Bart?) said his pappy once told him that if a man offers to bet you that the Jack of Spades is going to jump up out of a deck of cards and spit cider in your ear, you'd better not bet him, cause if you do bet, you're going to end up with an ear full of cider.:grin-square::grin-square:
 
With 5" pockets I'd be salivating if someone offered me 20 tries. With tighter pockets it would become much more difficult in my opinion.
 
Interesting. I made the 3 railer on the 5th try. I thought it'd take like more like 10 or 12 to dial it in.

I'll give the 5 railer a shot now..
 
shinyballs said:
Interesting. I made the 3 railer on the 5th try. I thought it'd take like more like 10 or 12 to dial it in.

I'll give the 5 railer a shot now..
Click to expand...

Barely touched it on my 2nd try on the 5 railer, but I passed 30 tries without making it past.
 
It's one of those shots I almost have to get down and try to say for sure if 20 tries is a safe bet or not. I know that one the local pool hall's generous 5+ inch pockets, you can squeeze by hangers all day without disturbing them, and I know I could do it on my favorite table. I can stroll up and sink the 3 rail hanger with my eyes closed, it seems like it wouldn't take much more to sharpen the accuracy a bit.

I'm gonna bet a friend a dollar I can do it in 20 tries and see if he bites. I have no idea if I can win that dollar or not :) Interesting proposition. I also have a favorite 4 railer I can make on the first try, aiming at the foot rail diamond nearest the 2 ball.
 
I had to give it a shot. I ran down to my table, 8' Brunswick 4.75 corners and I made it clean on the 3rd try. The first shot I nailed the object ball dead center, 2nd shot I made both the object ball and cue ball, and with a little adjustment snuck it in clean.

Now I'll have to give the 5-rail a try.
 
Alright I gave the 5 rail a try and I got it on my 10th try.

The first 3 tries were not even close, the 4th hit the side pocket point as did the 6th. I moved whitey closer to the rail and came up 3 inches short on the next 2 before getting the spin right and making it right in the pocket. It didn't even hit the rail and right in.

thanks for the prop bet idea.
 
i dont know if u all know the trick about 3 rails and finding a spot in the room.....if u know this it may be alot easier to accomplish on a certain table, id make him switch tables.

ps....for those of u that dont know or those of u that can explain this trick better than i can please help.....here it goes.. to figure out this trick make a spot on the table that you can place the cue ball on evertime. next try to 3 rail the ball in with the same speed and stroke till u get it perfect. now look at the point on the rail that you are hitting. look past that point from the spot where your cueball was. find a very specific point past that spot on the rail (maybe a chip in the paint on the wall or something preferrably level with the table. now move your cueball and aim at that spot you just picked on the wall or whatever....it should 3 rail in. weird i know but it works. its even in that immonen mastering pool dvd series. please help simplify this if u can for anyone that wants to know this trick
 
stuckart said:
Alright I gave the 5 rail a try and I got it on my 10th try.

The first 3 tries were not even close, the 4th hit the side pocket point as did the 6th. I moved whitey closer to the rail and came up 3 inches short on the next 2 before getting the spin right and making it right in the pocket. It didn't even hit the rail and right in.

thanks for the prop bet idea.
Click to expand...

As you and a few others in this thread have discovered, a shot that looks super hard at first, and with the right verbal setup sounds about impossible, can be made pretty reliably in 20-25 shots on anything but a very tight table.

BTW, I expect some "jelly" from you guys when you use these propositions to win some stew! (I just learned the term "stew" as a synonym for cash a few days ago and just had to use it.:))
 
Get Bert Kinister"s tape #4 "Best 10 Hustles". There are tips on how to adjust the bet in your favor after it was made.
 
The wei post reminded me of an idea for a trick shot, maybe it's already been done... you know the old standard shot where you shoot 3 balls into the corner, hit the first one slow and the last one fast so that the first ball you shoot is the last ball to go in?

How about doing that shot with the 3 railer and slightly differently placed balls?
I took a random whack at it the other day but could barely get 2.
 
I am not sure that in SoCal we have pockets big enough to do this.

Someone please hide this thread from Ernesto or we will be shooting at 3.5 inch holes from now on :p

Seriously 5 inch pockets and even 4.75 inch ones. Those are pretty big if they are at a pool room.
 
Amen Mr. Dominguez

frankncali said:
I am not sure that in SoCal we have pockets big enough to do this.

Someone please hide this thread from Ernesto or we will be shooting at 3.5 inch holes from now on :p

Seriously 5 inch pockets and even 4.75 inch ones. Those are pretty big if they are at a pool room.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top